CLASSYCLS

I was thinking, would you consider Acura as being a car for the educated consumer?? I was at PAA the other day, loooking through there lot of BMW's and Acura and was comparig prices on these cars, and came up with this question!! Ex: Acura CL type S vs BMW 3-series (not M3) For 32k for the CL-S compared to 40+ for a 3-series, is it really worth the extra $$$ , The CL-S comes fully lodaed, navi, xenon, heated seats, etc..........but on the BMW you have to pay extra with all that!!! Is BMW, MB, Lexus all just a status simble??? Dont get me wrong, yes BMW is rear wheel drive (advantage) and a nice looking german car and reliabilty is so/so but when it was time for me to choose a car, I considered what car gives me more for my $$, the most bang for the buck!!!

TypeSAddict

No. Acura = Frugal Consumer. Pinch your leather seats and tap your sheetmetal. Then compare that to the BMW and you will see a 1000 fold increase in the quality of materials used. Acura is a great company, and the CLS is what it was meant to be: an affordable luxo/sporty coupe. That being said, there are visibly cut corners to get the price down. As a result, I think it's safe to say that purchasing a CL is a decision borne from different values than thoes that would be involved in purchasing a 330. The Acura buyer is restrained by reason and frugality, whereas the BMW buyer is buying based solely on desire, without regard to bang/buck. But they might just really love and want the 330. Does that make them less smart or Acura owners smarter? I personally don't think so.

Shawn S

True, but not THAT true.
Sure, there are lots of BMW drivers that appreciate the quality and drive their cars like a true enthusiast.

I still say that the 80-percent or more just buy them for the status that they feel that little emblem on the hood gives them.
I know…….I work with quite a few of them.

TypeSAddict

Yea, I'll give you that. The blue and white propellars give their penises like 1000 fold increases in size, or at least, they think they do

Slimey

I just know that this thread is going to become the lame thread of the week, one that starts with a mundane point and circles on and on to nowhere.





People pick a specific car for a variety of reasons. The list is long -- cost, perceived value, manufacturer reputation, rebates/financing, reviews, package options, personal history with the brand, looks, handling, power, fuel economy -- just to name a few. The list is goes on and on.

Yes, a comparable BMW costs more money then the Acura, but is this the only separating point? I don't think so. I too compared the 330 to the CL-S and could more then afford both cars. Why did I not choose BMW? I just don't like them.

It seems like a lot of people on these boards have boners for the bimmer. I cannot figure it out. Sure they drive well, but IMHO, I think they look boring, like the designer fell asleep on the drawing board.

(and yes, I realize that the CL is also considered a boring body style -- but for whatever personal reason, I like it.)

BMWs do handle well, but I can guarantee you that only a small percentage of their purchasers consider this when buying one. Few people that drive cars are real enthusiasts, most just see them as transportation from here to there.

The only BMWs that have piqued my interest over the last few decades have been the M1 and 635/M6. The rest make me say 'meh' and move on.

And I don't necessarily think the Acura customer is a frugal customer. The car market is too wide with too many options to make this generalization. Price is not the only selling point of a car.

To each their own. That's the bottom line.

123456SPEED

I don't think the large number of women I see driving 3 series are trying to increase their penis size...well, maybe their boyfriends.
I'm amazed at how well BMWs sell. sure most of them are the cheaper 325 series, but at the premium price that is an amazing marketing, reputation feat.
I love the BMW 330 coupes, esp the styling, but for the money I just didn't see enough there, so I guess I'm frugal but I don't want to pay even more for things the CL has standard.
Plus I love Japanese reliability.

SiGGy

This is done easily from a financial perspective. Compare a used 01 330Ci BMW, to a used 01CLS. (give the BMW the options that compare to the CLS, when loaded it has MORE features than the CLS too, and nicer ammenities)

You now have your extra $$ back you spent originally.

This is an old argument, I went around with someone wayyy back when. And sure enough the BMW holds $10k to the Acura now.

So you save $10k in the start? You really didn't gain anything from it since you end up losing it in value in the CLS in the end.

In other words, the extra you spent goes right back in your pocket when you sell it.

SiGGy

2001 BMW 3 Series 330Ci Coupe 2D

Premium Pkg
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Telescoping Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Multi Compact Disc
Premium Sound
Dual Front Air Bags
Front Side Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Premium Wheels


Consumer Rated Condition: Excellent


Private Party Value $26,255
Trade-In Value $23,875


2001 Acura CL 3.2 Type S Coupe 2D



Equipment
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Multi Compact Disc
Premium Sound
Dual Front Air Bags
Front Side Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Leather
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Alloy Wheels



Consumer Rated Condition: Excellent


Private Party Value $18,465
Trade-In Value $15,975

I paid approx $35000 for my CLS when I bought it (It had barely been out 30-60 days in 2000). I could have spent an extra $8000 i.e. $43,000 on the BMW and had not lost the extra $$ spent.

So you decide...

JRock

Uh hold on a second. You spent $10k less for the CLS in the start, as you put it, but while the resale values will still be $10k apart, you haven't LOST anything - you're still up $10k. If the BMW somehow held $10k MORE than the initial $10k difference in price they cost new, then yes you would have a point and it would indeed be a better investment. What you've shown is simply that neither one is a better investment since they both depreciated a near-equal amount. Big deal. There's always the point that the $10k you didn't spend on the BMW could have been invested for four years and grown. Not to mention it's always safer, from a financial or investment perspective, to have the $10k sitting in the bank or in cash or in whatever than it is to tie it up into a car.

123456SPEED

Good point, I hadn't thought of that, but I don't know if you recoup all the extra $ the BMW cost, but maybe. I was looking at 02-03 models. I was very swayed by the 330 coupe, but I also didn't like the shifter as much as the CL 6 speed, but the 3 series coupe is dam sexy IMO.

JRock

"Not to mention it's always safer, from a financial or investment perspective, to have the $10k sitting in the bank or in cash or in whatever than it is to tie it up into a car."

should read

"Not to mention it's always better, from a financial or investment perspective, to have the $10k sitting in the bank or in cash or in whatever market than it is to tie it up into a depreciating asset."

n00dleboy

:whocares:

Slimey

Depreciation is only an issue if you're going to sell the car back or you're embarking on a **gasp** lease agreement.

The shortest I've owned a car was 7 years/~100Kmiles. I could give a rat's ass about what my car is worth on the open market (well, I guess, except for insurance value if I total it).

Because I don't consider reselling my purchase, I don't really consider depreciation issues. IMHO, YMMV...

GreenMonster

Yep, That's me. My friends call me frugal, but I tell 'em "Nope, I'm a cheap bastard"

I did look at the 330, but spec'd out the way I wanted it was like 42K MSRP, and they don't really discount them much. I paid 29.5K for my CLS. 13.5K is big difference, and I really couldn't justify the extra cost.

I did also look at the 02 and 03 Accords, and could have gotten a smoking deal on a 02 EX V6 leftover, but decided to get the CLS. I might be cheap, but somehow I could justify spending the extra money to get a CL instead of an Accord (while I couldn't justify the extra for the BMW).

Heck, it's just a car to get me back and forth to work (for the most part). I guess I could have gotten away with buying a used Civic

fuzzy02CLS

iTrader: (2)

Yep 100% agree.

I have 2 friends that did this. They are still paying for them & they are falling apart now cause they don't know how to take care of them. But oh yes they love to say I have a BMW

SiGGy

The BMW does hold it's value better. All I was showing is you don't loose anything buying the BMW. And in the end you get a car that holds it's value better, and has more options/features.

The CLS is at 50% of it's original value the BMW is closer to 60%.

I don't consider a car an investment in any way! but I was trying to show your not out the extra $$ you spend to get the BMW in the end. And on the newer BMW's you need to take into account you *don't have to pay for maintenance!*

michiamo

My experience was very similar. Oh, and don't forget the complimentary dose of arrogance you get at BMW dealers.

SiGGy

Ya, that's for sure. And I'm not into Chris Bangles new style

However, a lot of Acura dealers have their fair share of problems too. And troubles /w Acura cars (from earlier posts) hell im on my 4th tranny. LOL and I have spent a ton on maintenance. $1000's

Acura's problems per 100 vehciles was basically the same a GM's. That's horrible! Think of how many more cars chevy makes than Acura! It's not a good sign for Acura.

My next purchase won't be an Acura, unless a lot of changes are made.

However my dealer experience has been phenominal! Superior Acura is awesome.

Slimey

OK -- I'm understanding your point now.

urladyswidme

Take this info for what its worth. I own both a CL-S and a BMW MCOUPE. The CL-S is my daily commuter car and my MCOUPE I use to accelerate and challenge tight corners. I know and accept the differences between these cars. Apparently, a lot of you CL owners who cry about workmanship and performance haven't learned that yet. IMHO, the CL is nice for its price but quality and workmanship still falls short compared to MB and BMW. The marketing folks at Honda did well in positioning this car in the market. It was built for people that want luxury features but are not willing to pay the price for BMWs or MBs...

goldmemberer

You do. Enough to check out what everyone said.

As for the issue at hand, it's hard to say. "To each his own" would be convenient.

I think it's a lot safer to say Acura = Practical Consumer than "educated," per se. Great price/feature ratio, FWD/AWD is good in all weather, good gas mileage, enough power. I personally do think that Acura has, in recent years, consistently offered a better value than the competition, excluding the NSX & RSX.

Of course, Acura does have its downfalls, but they seem to be getting fixed one by one.

Tosh

If I lived in Europe I might consider a BMW. But over here, the stigma attached to being an average BMW owner is too high: posers, status whores, high rollers, pseudo-perfomance guys, wannabees, followers, pretenders, etc. I just don't want to be associated with these people. And I'm a big Montoya and Williams fan, and they're powered by BMW. I don't know why BMW doesn't play up the F1 angle more here. Montoya won the Indy 500, so the recognition is there, right....?
Anyway, I bought another Acura, a 2001 CL-S, because of the superb reliability of my 90 Legend Coupe, and all other Hondas up until then. But I feel let down, even betrayed, by Honda. Weak tranny and brakes are just the beginning. And the way the company is handling the problems by denial and covering up gives me no confidence in the future either. A classic case of lawyers and accountants looking at the bottom line each year, not in long-term damage. Pretty soon, I think their reputation is going to get blown. Isn't every automatic tranny attached to a V6 a ticking time bomb? Has Saturn inherited this problem now that they use a Honda V6 and automatic? Next time, I'm getting a Toyota (with a manual tranny, just in case)....