JimmyTLS

I already sat down and wrote down all the parts that I needed. I went to go check out the trans as well...its not complete i.e missing ECU, axles are bent, and various other little things, so I'm still searching for one. Ok I apologize to Scalbert and the others, but trust me guys, I've been looking into this for months and know full well what I am getting myself into. Also, as long as I get the transmission mounts from the CL-S, they bolt up to the same locations as the auto trans in the TLS. I spoke to the tech and shop foreman over at metro Acura and also looked as to what they were talking about. The only thing that I am still unsure about is the TLS comptech headers. Are the headers different between the TLS and CLS because of the additional motor mounts in the CLS?

By the way, the goal is either to get it atleast running by the end of a day or to have the bulk of the work done in a day.

Starter

Your other goals are noteworthy and I wish you well.

End of the day? No way in hell. End of the month maybe.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that's it!

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Oh I also forgot to mention, you'll need the new gauge cluster from the 6-speed as well.

Mechanically I'm sure the swap can be done, but what will a 6-speed ECU do in a TL-S??? No one really knows what programming is in there for the VSA system and what the car will try to do when it no longer has that software running.

blader

But I guess we'll find out eh?

chabanais

If you're going to that trouble might as well make it RWD.

blader

but that will probably take two days instead of one.

jk

JimmyTLS

I already know I need a new guage cluster, as well as center console for the hand brake assembly. Like I said, I already know what I am getting myself into. As far as people not believing this can be done in one day, I don't see why it can't? Transmissions are replaced everyday where I work. Shift linkages are always removed, etc. And that takes about 3 hours. Now I know that there is a lot more work to be done when simply removing and replacing a transmission than doing this swap, but there is also an additional 10 hours. Its not like we're doing it out in the driveway, its done in the shop with all necessary tools. And I also did a full motor swap in one day (Euro Accord R f20B into a 97 accord). Its always better to be optimistic than pessimistic, if everyone was pessimistic, we'd still be living in caves.

mattg

only time will reveal.


i've seen this done on a maxima and no way in hell was it a one day job.


it's your mission to prove us wrong.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

It will probably take 1 day just to strip everything out and figure out the wiring harness... not to mention fabricating all the parts you'll need a machine shop to create.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Also dont' forget you'll need a new throttle body, they are different as well.

JimmyTLS

Oh are they? This is the reason I posted this thread. Thanks mrsteve.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Yep, different part numbers. The automatic CL/TL Type-S has a VSA control valve that the 6-speed does not.

scalbert

Because it has become glaringly obvious that you haven't investigated this very well. I say this because of this question:

The answer is obvious just doing five minutes of research.

Is the clutch pedal mount going to be fabricated and bolted up or is it going to be cut off the scrapped vehicle and welded into the TL-S?? If welded, and it should be, you will probably need to pull the carpet out too unless they are skilled TIG welders which I highly doubt a technician is. What about the theft deterent system, how will that be handled??

Heck, replacing or splicing into the TL-S the harness will take no less than a half day in its self. The clutch pedal mounting is another day. The center console and shift linkage will take another. Gauge cluster would be a half day as the wiring harness also needs to be replaced or adapted. The transmission would take a day on its own (have your techs look up the clutch replacement hours for an idea of the portion). But now you need to have custom axles made most likely so you will wait another day at best. So far this is over a week’s time straight and I know everyone won't have all that time available. So this has now basically turned into a month and the car isn't even moving yet. To tie up all of the loose ends add another few days. Then, to trouble shoot and get everything right, double this amount of time. This is now out to 2 - 3 months and certainly well beyond the $$ mentioned as no one will continue on a project like this for free if they have any life at all.

Point being and IMO, you haven't researched 1/3 of what will be required. As mentioned before, this is an ambitious and commendable project. However, the cost point and time frame are not realistic. I am so confident of this to the extent that I would put $$ on it. However, you will need every last penny for this build if you really think 1 day and $2000 is all it will take.

Please do this as I think it is a fantastic project. However, reserve yourself to the fact that it will take longer and cost more than anticipated. It always does; and not realizing that is the downfall of many.

scalbert

Oh yea, please video tape this event.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Here is the preview:

We are getting started!

Ugh... why won't the alarm stop going off?

Fixed it

We need to fabricate clutch pedal mounts


Try this

Broke it

Your fault, no your fault

Just bolt it all up, he'll never know

"Sweet it's done"

ThinJim

iTrader: (3)

kia

CLpower

you may be better off talking to the v6p guys.

JimmyTLS

Why do I need to splice if I am getting the CL-S ecu and wiring harness? If I am able to get get the clutch and pedal mounts off the CL-S, shouldn't everything just bolt up? Thanks for all the info so far guys. Again, this is the whole purpose of the thread, getting me ready to do the swap. Keep em' coming.

BTW, scalbert, I won't do a video because I simply don't know how to upload vids and don't have the time as I will be working on the car. But pics will be taken of the process.

scalbert

Then the harness will need to be pulled through the firewall and fastened appropriately.

From what I recall, the pedal mounts are welded so not bolting up.

And get a darn video. Soemone you know could take care of uploading it.

mattg

step by step pics would work too.

JimmyTLS

Oh the pedals are welded in there? Thanks for the info scalbert. This is the reason why I started this thread, not to brag or boast about getting it done in one day. Time isn't the real issue here. I just needed the info like the one you provided. Anything else anyone can think of?

Also, the tech over at acura said the firewalls between the CL and TL are the same, you just need to punch out the holes (I assume he means that there are small plates covering holes such as for the clutch pedal). I am still trying to find a salvaged CL-S to get the parts I need. So this may happen soon, or it could be a few months from now. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can now so I will be prepared for the future.

EDIT:
Hey scalbert, I'm not to familiar with the e-manage. Can that be used as a stand-alone EMS or is it more of a piggy back system?

blader

emanage is not stand alone. you will still need an ecu.

ChadT

Sounds like you are set on going for it. Good luck with it. Will be a cool car when it's done if done well. To answer the header question...One of the rear pipes has a small bend to clear the mount on the 6-speed. All of the newer Comptech headers have this bend. Scalbert has a good point. This header deal is fairly common knowledge. I hope there are not other things that have been overlooked. This will be a tough project but somebody's got to do it.

blader

What ever happened to this project?

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

Bite off more than you can chew?

farberstyle

please just let this thread die....

Jonesi

I can't believe I just read all this..

Enough with the negativity, if he wants to try let him.. You guys are being assholes IMO.. If people didn't stretch the limits and try things then this and other sites wouldn't even exist..

juve021

JimmyTLS

Still getting all the pieces required for the swap. Like I said, I don't have all the parts for the full swap and won't be doing this until I do, but it WILL happen.

And hey, people can be negative all they want. I came for info, got some, and will still do this. People will always shoot down the pioneers of anything. I wonder if the first person to do a B18 swap into a civic felt...oh well...

ghost_masterCL

glad to see that all that pessimism didn't get to you jimmy. I completely agree with jonesi. I'm not even doing the swap and I got pisse d of all at thse people trying to shoot you down. especially mrsteve. Scalbert was at least trying to just help you understand whil the others were just telling you to give up. i respect you for this and hope you do acheive this so those of us that wan tot do a manual tranny swap have more information to work off of.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I supplied him with a complete list of what he'll need to get started as well as other things that need to be done.

Do I think it'll be an easy swap? Hell no!
Do I think he has the mechanical knowledge to do the swap? Based upon his posts in this thread, NO (neither do I for that matter)
Do I think it is a smart move financially? NO
Do I think his time frame and budget was WAY under estimated? YES

I'm just skepitcal of why anyone would want to do this swap when a 6 speed version all ready exsists from the factory that can be picked up for $20,000 or less. Currently his TL is worth $15-17k, plus the $10k it'll take for parts, labor, troubleshooting, tuning. How can anyone justify dropping that much money into something when they will actually lose money on their investment. A one-off 6psd TL-S is virtually worthless when it comes time to sell. Unless he's planning on keeping the car forever (highly unlikely considering he is younger than me even) the decision is just a very poor one for him. He's 19 years old!!

It would be awesome to see someone complete the transmisssion swap... and i'm sure one day way down the road it will be done by someone. But for JImmy TLS I don't think its a good idea. If he has the money to spend on the swap (~$10k) he could easily get out of his current TLS and into a CLS-6 for cheap. And don't compare this to a B-18 swap into a civic... you could do 5 of those swaps for the amount of money it'll cost to do this and in less time.

My opinion Welcome to the internet

Jonesi

We heard you the first 6 times.. And saw your list of smilies...

You know people could say the same about you, putting a S/C and IC on a auto..

And yes I saw your copied list of things needed..

scalbert

I believe most of the negative responses centered not around the actual swap, but around the projected cost and time frame. I say more power to him, but he should be prepared when the time and costs are exceeded.

JimmyTLS

What a lot of people don't understand is my situation. Everyone is estimating the swap to cost a lot of money. I am getting every bit and piece for no more than $4,000. All the labor is free. I don't anticipate set backs costing any money because we can always fabricate our own parts at the shop. Its GOOD working at HONDA, there's more opportunities open to me.

JimmyTLS

Oh yea...and I was working with a technician the other day too. Finished a Prelude trans swap, from auto to stick, new ecu, wiring harnesses, guage cluster, center console, shifter assembly, basically everything in 6 hours. Go figure.

scalbert

You have already double the amount though:

Just FYI, most Honda dealers do not have a lathe or milling machine potentially required for some parts.

scalbert

But the Prelude was offered as a manual. The TL-S was not. That is a significant difference.

Still though, best of luck but heed some warning and prepare for the worst.

Jonesi

Just out of curiousity Steve.. I'm assuming it would be easier to convert a 03 auto CL-S to a maunal then anything else b/c that year it was also setup to be a manual..? Correct ?

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Damn Steve, you beat me to it. I read he comments awhile back about the auto to manual swaps and you are right on the money....

All of those cars were offered with a manual tranny. So within a little over a month, you doubled your budget. Hmmmm...are you seeing a pattern here.

You need to watch the show Rides, where they took a car that was FWD and made it RWD. I sat there for an hour with my jaw wide open looking at all the work that had to be done to make it happen. Granted, not the same situation, but very similar - taking a car that was not offered in a certain drivetrain configuration and trying to make it work. So many unknowns, your Honda techs obviously have not done their homework. It was a Toyota and they swapped in a Tacoma tranny.