CLS2001_97124

Hi, before I get into details about my test drives this weekend. I would just like to say that I understand I probably will be flamed for what I'm about to say, however, I just want everyone to know that I love Acuras and this is souly just my opinion, and I respect all of you guys opinions no matter if I agree with it or not.

Anyway, here some stats on what took place:

Weather: 65 degree, sunny

In Order
Cars driven: 2003 Audi TT Quattro 6 speed
2002 Honda S2000
2003 CL TYPE S - 6 Speed

I understand the fact both TT and S2K are roadsters, and the CLS weighs about 1000 lbs more then the other two cars. Therefore, I just want you guys to understand that I would never even dream about comparing the two totally different class of cars as far as handling is concered. I was just in the market for a new car since I just recently paid off my 01 CLS, I thought I would give the CLS-6 a shot. (I missed driving a manual, so I wanted to get a car that is fun to drive, and since I love the CLS, I wanted to give it a chance.)

When I first got into the CLS-6, I was so excited because everything I've read about on the fourm was positive. In the beginning I started easy because I wanted to get used to the heigth of the clutch, and immediately I noticed that the cluth was not very percise (it sort of engages halfway up, and it's a little to0 high for me). So I thought.. okay, it's a luxury car, I guess it makes it easier for some people. But then, when the Sales guy took me out on an open road and told me to step on it, I did, and I was so disappointed. I took the RPM up to near redline through each gear, and I was shifting pretty quick, however it felt like there was a split second delay between each shift eventhough I know for fact that my left foot was completely off the clutch. I don't know why the car felt the way it did, because when I drove the other two cars and shifted the same way, everything hooked up perfectly (one shift after another). So when I got back to the dealership, the guys told me that if I trade in my 01 with 11k on it for the 03 6 speed, I'm looking at another $8500 to get it. So I told them that I appreciated the test drive and left.

IMO, I love my CLS, and after I test drove the 6 speed, I don't regret having an automatic anymore (especially with all the mods I have for the 01). I don't really care about the addition power loss my auto tranny has, or the fact that it might die on me one day (thank God to the 100k extended warrenty). I realize now that this car is a nice luxury car, the girls like it, it's comfortable and great in heavy traffic. I've made my decision that the next manual car I buy will be the 2003 S2K. I'll probably put a comptach S/C on that babe, and have it be the "toy" car. As for my CLS, I plan on keeping it as long as I can, because it's a very good looking car, and it drives great with some minor upgrades.

Shawn S

Sounds like there’s something wrong with that car.
Maybe it had the SHIT beat out of it on earlier test drives and had a BUM clutch.

The clutch pedal is actually OVER sensitive to most people and grabs early.
That's what takes the most getting used to.
I’ve never heard of anyone saying it grabs too high.

Shawn S

nate'sCLS

Sounds like you made a good decision.

Slimey

I second what Shawn S says, and if you do a search here on ACL, you'll see that swarms of others do too.

It sounds like there is a clutch problem in the car you tested. The pedal engages quick and low, and shifting is precise and quick. No lag with engagement ever.

Speed_Racer

I agree. I'm still getting used to it and it does seem to grab early. I also drove the S2K and it seemed to grab even faster than the CL if that's possible. . .

Zapata

I must agree with other people. Clutch grabs low. As far as the delay goes, there is one if you don't shift with the correct timing. You can't let the clutch on this car fast in shifting into >2>3>4......unless you hit it perfectly. The tranny on this car is awesome, VERY tight and VERY precise but along with those positives the car demands you drive it correctly for things to be smooth.

CLS2001_97124

Maybe you are right about the bad clutch, however, I did not mean that it grabs high, I meant to say that it does grab early however (half way up), but the overall height of the clutch peddle was a little to high for my taste. I apologies for the confusion,.

But still even with a nice/quick "pop in pop out" clutch action during high rpm shifting, it did not seem to want to hook up very well. I will go to a different dealership and ask for another test drive to be fair.

6spdmanual

I agree. Mine is low also.

Slimey

I think that most of us have reported the clutch engagement point about 1 - 1 1/2 inches off the floor.

nate'sCLS

But it sounds as though you love the S2K, so why fight the feelin' ?

allmotor_2000

Let me take you for a spin in MY '03 6spd CL-S... trust me, you wouldn't buy the AUDI or S2000 after that!

The CL has some issues with 'responsiveness' - I have figured out that this is entirely due to electrical limitations, not mechanical limitations. If its electrical, it can be overcome with relative ease!

CLS2001_97124

Yes, that's the word I'm looking for!! 'responsiveness'. On the test drive, the car didn't feel like it wants to go right away eventhough the clutch is completely engaged, and the peddle is to the metal.

Allmotor, care to explain the whole electrical limitations?

allmotor_2000

I started a thread a while back regarding this. Most 6spd CL-S owners can attest to this while some (only Scalbert ) doesn't seem to experience this. Either due to the excessive torque produced when jamming the accelerator, or stress on the transmission, Honda has decided to momentarily 'detune' the car by retarding timing very aggressively (or not sending enough fuel). With certain sensors removed, this problem goes away. In 1st gear you can spin the tires to redline when flooring from any RPM > 2.5K. I have nearly figured out a solution to this problem and the results improve the overall car demeanor by quite a bit. There are some side-effects to my fix which are annoying me right now, but I'll get to that later.

CLS2001_97124

Sorry I missed out.. Searching for "6 speed" in Car Talk gets way too many hits.. not very effective..

Thanks for the info!

BMWETR

I recall reading a road test on the CLS-6spd. It said that the timing was retarded whenever first gear was engaged. Perhaps Honda did it to reduce excessive wheel spin/torque steer/mechanical stress.


01 CL-S San Marino/Beige
Sumitomo HTR+
Flaps

allmotor_2000

Search for the word 'lag'. You should find that immediateley.

CLS2001_97124

Thanks allmotor, the your thread about the lag was very helpful!!

6spd Elect. Throttle Limiter... 'stock'!!

On Monday, I used my lunch hour and went out and test drove a different CLS-6, and samething happened again. I made sure I took notice of where the clutch engages, and responded with immediate WOT through each shifts. I noticed the "lag" between 1st to 2nd gear, than again from 2nd to 3rd. Didn't get up to 4th because after the split second "lag", the car pulls really well, so I ran out of room.

This time I pointed the "lag" out to the sales guy and he noticed it too, so he try to give me some B.S. about my driving skills, so I told him to try it and see if he has the some problem.. and he did. He seemed shocked by this, and he asure me that they don't all do that (I think it's because he thought I might buy it right there and then), and he would check with the Acura mechanics to see if they know anything about it and get back to me.. haven't heard from him yet.. and don't think I will.

Allmotor, I wish you the best of luck on find a solution on this little kink in this great car, because I'm sure there are many of you guys out there that are hardcore manual drivers like myself, and I don't think I will be able to stand the car always "lagging" when I want to just take off on someone.. No new CLS-6 for me for now..

Thank you all for not flaming me on this topic.