oce01acura32cl

ONLY HAS 225 AND KEEPS UP WITH A TYPE S? WTF?!?! someone explain!

GOT PSI?

Are u comparing a 330ci to a 01' CL-P?

SiGGy

The bimmer is almost 400lbs lighter... which will make a substantial difference. Being that the 330CI is RWD, stock vs stock, the BMW will get a better launch with a 5 or 6 speed manual transmission. As all of the weight transfers to the rear of the car when you launch. Helping a RWD car, but a big burdon on a FWD car.

someguy

Where are you getting this 400lbs lighter from? The 6-speed CL without Nav. is "only" around 150lbs heavier. Makes a difference though. But, the BMW is RWD. The gearing seems to favor the CL. It just seems to be a RWD and overall balance issue and the fact that the BMW has 245s on the back.

frryy

Yea, like Siggy said, the near 50:50 weight distribution helps alot on the launch. And so does RWD. Not to mention an Inline6 engine. Oh and Manual doesn't hurt either. What else? Hmm... Oh yea, they come with thicker tires stock. (the sport package does anyways: Front 235/Rear 245)

SiGGy

Ya its closer to 300 and i was thinking of the auto, not the manual CLS.

And the few I thought out cars (auto) were closer to 3600+ lbs... from the people who have weighed them.

WiLd~CL~TYPS-@SS

400Ibs is bullshit

the stick 330ci is 1490kg
the cl-s is 1563kg

SiGGy

did you read all of the thread before posting this?

I was hittin the crack pip at 400, but I weas thinking our CLS (auto) weight more than they do. I remember someone weighed theirs and it was quite a bit heavier than 3500lbs

WiLd~CL~TYPS-@SS

nah..i dont need to read them..i have the mag myself

and there are web sites you can check for their spec.

www.bmw.com

www.acura.com

someguy

Well, if they have acually weighed in at 3600+, that is heavy. A lot more than the Acura's quoted weight.

I weighed my E46 328Ci at 3220, still not too light :o

SiGGy

DUH

ummm i was trying to show I corrected myself... Which is why i asked if you read the entrie thread. And those numbers don't match what others have weighed them in at. (CLS)

Type S

no no no..magazine compares 330ci to cls...and i know its hp is a bit less than cls..but maybe it is more expensive than cls..i am not sure....cls (auto) can smoke 328ci or 330ci or 330xi (all auto) at any time..anywhere..and manual cls can take manual 3 series too..

Red Rider

BMW performance always makes it seem like they have more ponies under the hood.

SiGGy

Ya I was a bit shocked to hear some of the weights of other peoples CLS(s) (auto)

35xx if i remember correctly, someone was at the strip and did it. I could swear someones was close to 3600, but mabye they had a system in their car.

Driven

It also has to do with the mfr's methods of rating power and also friction loss. BMWs tend to be conservatively rated....you can see this when you dyno the car...not too bad a difference in the stated rating and the actual output at the wheel. Those who have dyno'd their type S know what the difference is on the Acuras. But at the same time, I'm not afraid to take on a Mustang since Ford likes to play with the numbers to make that "pony" look good. Doh!

oce01acura32cl

does 100lbs really make that much of a diff?

Crazy Bimmer

hey magazine readers... you forget one thing.... CLS (auto) makes about 200hp to the wheels, and the 330ci makes about 200hp to the wheels (5-speed).

Also, may i add the magazines say the CLS 6-speed and 330ci manual are equal. I think some said 5.8 for the 330ci, and 5.9 for the 6-speed CLS. Remember the CLS 6-speed is around 220 hp to the wheels?


So it makes sense, the 330ci is RWD and has 200hp to the wheels.

And the CLS 6-speed is around 220hp to the front wheels.


So thats why they are soo close in 0-60 :P

SiGGy

every 100lbs of static weight is (approximately) .1 of a second difference in the 1/4 mile. Or 1 car length of difference (since every 1/10 of a second difference is 1 car lenght when you race). So if you had 2 exact cars with identical weight drivers. And then you threw some 200lb passener in one of them. The car with the extra 200lbs of weight would be 2 car lenghts behind the other. And theoretically .2 of a second difference,

I'm not sure on the 0-60 differences. And the 1/4 mile differences I just posted are approximate.

oce01acura32cl

whoa. i wanna get rims but i think they are heavy as fuck! kmc floss 18inch

SiGGy

hmm, I can't remember the equation. But the weight of your wheels is handled differently because the engine has to turn them. Hopefully somone will chime in with the differences...

oh well, if they look pimp, fuk it. Who cares. Not like we drive the fastest thing anyway...

krazyplaya213

hello hp really doesnt matter .....torqe is what counts!!!!

JSuppi

And not to mention they probably didn't get out of the car when they where on the scales at the strip. I weighed in, and my car (with me in the car of course damn 200+ pounds ) the car weighed in a little over 3600..

I had removed the box, so the system shouldn't have mattered much (if at all).

bone_stock

I agree! Also, in a street car it is where that torque peaks in the rev range. Idealy peak torque would be low on the rev range and then hold that peak to red line.

Loseit

iTrader: (1)

Horsepower sells cars and torque wins races.

BNut

Torque doesn't win any races unless you have rev range and gearing to take advantage of it.

Just look at the Jetta TDI!!! 150ft/lbs of torque but only 90 something HP! It runs low to mid 18's in the 1/4 mile!

Tom2

Simple..... The BMW has 225 German horses and the CL-S has 260 Japanese horses. We all know that German horses are much more powerful than Japanese horses

bigman

I think it has to do with gearing. BMW has a more linear torque and horse power curve, were as the cl/tl have to wait to vtec to make any fuss

ThoroDredCLS

cakennedy

You guys are too much sometimes...I think you've been reading the Racing Stories forum too much. You forgot the rest of the CL-S kill list: Z28, Mustang GT, 911 turbo, WRX, Corvette...

oce01acura32cl

na torque can't have anything to do with winning races. we also have a lot more torque then the 330ci. the bimmer has less torque than the cl-p! damn bmw overrated, and c&d making the cl look bad. we should sue for false something...well, at least beat someones ass for it

bone_stock

Torque from a diesel engine is measured differently than that of a gasoline engine. Not comparable!

cakennedy

Torque is torque, hp is hp. It doesn't matter if it comes from a gasoline engine, diesel engine, electric motor, or some guy turning a pipe wrench.

The "cult of torque" likes to say that "you buy hp, but you drive torque", and other witticisms not necessarily frounded in truth. Obviously, torque and hp are simply mathematical expressions that, when taken together, can describe the power characteristics of an engine.

And saying "torque wins races" is ridiculous. The faster car wins the race; there are so many variables to the quickness of a car that it can't be boiled down to a three-word phrase. Why do you think racecar engines make much more hp than torque, relative to passenger cars?

bone_stock

Not exactly true! In the early 70's horsepower and torque ratings changed from JAE standards to SAE standards. Typically, diesel engines still quote JAE numbers while gasoline engines quote SAE numbers.

moomaster_99

OOOHHH!!!! You guys are getting me all wet talking with these big acronyms about torque and horses.....:-*

BNut

Good point but can you PROVE that VW rates their engine torque using JAE standards rather than SAE standards?

codehead

Eh? You can have torque up the wazoo and be slower than heck (but can pull two boats and yank a tree stump out at the same time). It's all about torque over the operating range (rpm), which makes horsepower. Horsepower implies a good product of rpm & torque. If you don't have horsepower, you aren't going to win a race, period.

codehead

In addition to what others have said--can't vouch for the accuracy, but I read in a review that the 330ci's top speed is 125 mph, while the CL-S's is 150 mph. So at least that the 330ci can't always keep up.

frryy

Actually their ECU cuts the fuel at about 137mph. I know from experience, duuuuude, if you know what I mean.

Black CL-S 4-Life

Sure it can can hang from a launch but the CL-S kills it on the highway.

SilverKnight

So you are saying auto CLS wont beat auto 330ci? You are wrong, buddy. I beat one at the track :P