I finally received e-mail from "Doug" (RE: 3.5 short block/Rick Case)

Here is the basic info:

1. Doug is working on his Benz career, it's taking up most of his time, and has not allowed him to dabble with building motors at this time.

2. There seems to be very little in it for Doug (the margins are very small). Forget about trying to get a lower price from him.

3. Direct quote: "If you know of any legit offers for a new "crate" motor short block with gaskets for $2500, I'll consider building a few more as my time allows. Price includes the first $100 of shipping."


REPLY RECEIVED 3/30/2003 (And this is not an April fools joke -- OK?)

 

wow doug finally speaks! thanks for the work!

 

EricL, u planing to do a 3.5 upgrade. I just got my tax return back and i'm considering the upgrade now. I'm from Orange County, not far from you, did he say how much shipping would be to California?

Is it basically a short block swap? Any sideaffects other then MORE POWER?

 

it's very straight forward...no side effects ...my shipping from southern florida to central was 80$ if i remember...i would imagine you could get it shipped for 200$ or less...

 

Hey typeR, i know that you had the conversion done, what do you think about it. What are the dyno numbers. HP, TQ? I'm either considering the 3.5 upgrade or Venom NOS kit. What's your average 1/4mile times with stock tires 13.9-14.1?

 

I can get you a brand new MDX block for $1500... but the problem is this:

(1) Are the guys in Florida just slapping the CL-S heads onto the MDX block

-OR-

(2) They swapping CL-S pistons to the MDX shortblock, but use the crank, rods etc.

One of the problems is the rod-ratio... I am working on some scenarios.... so if you guys are serious... maybe we can do a 'group engine build'

 

that's about right...i love it...i just want more power now...

 

so how do we get in touch with doug? i wanna get it done... what do i have to do to arrange this?

 

email ericL

 

allmotor i heard something where they take the mdx block and re-sleeve the pistons and slap the CL-S Heads on it. Kind of like an LS-Vtec concept

 

any chance any of you want to sell your stock blocks after doing this? wouldn't mind upping the displacement of my 3.0

 

I think typeR has a spare block

 

i think he turned it in as a core

 

I think he has it in his garage... or at least he did for a while from what I remember.

 

no i do still have my 3.2 the 2 center pistons and associated rings need re built but the bottom end is brand new...the insurance company tried one step at a time fix which ended up costing them about 8K

 

hmm, how much you wanna get rid of it for?

 

Hey S,


I can't remember exactly but what was the result of the 3.5 on ur CLS, 45hp and 45tq.


Also I kinda have the same question as Allmotor. The pistons, conecting rods, crank, block, and gaskets are all replaced with the ones from an MDX correct.










Juker008

 

Ill do it if the dealer can't find out meaning the engine looks the same and is virtually undetectable except the dyno and of course the track

 

won't happen lou. The block of the 3.5 will be stamped j35

 

again no...you can use your own j32a2 block....its only the crank area that need be changed ,the bottom end

 

im thinking 500$ plus shipping

 

TypeR.... I might consider it.. PM me, your mailbox is full!!

 

sweet

 

do u know his email? his box here is full, so i cant pm him

 

how will this effect warranty with the engine

 

Hrmmm... That would be interesting to have around just in case...

 

I'm a little confused, a 3.5 stroke "will" or "will not" show signs of a swap being done?


Also what was the gain with the 3.5 stroke? Was it 45hp just from the 3.5?










Juker008

 

The 3.5 won't show anything... unless you use an MDX block.

300cc upgrade would NEVER give 45whp... I don't know what TypeR dynoed... I guess around 245whp... am I right?

 

the only dyno ive seen is the one doug supplied it was close to 250 with a big bump in torque

 

We have just about completed the car we are working on with the 3.5 upgrade. About the only thing we have left to figure out is which gaskets and timing covers to use. Our customer is going a little beyond just a swap, so it is taking longer than we had originally thought--forged pistons and rods.

It is a pretty straight forward swap. There are several options that you can work with. If you just swap over the block from the MDX, the compression ratio ends up being 10.86:1 with the stock CLS/TLS heads--perfect if you want to run all motor or with nitrous.

Once we complete this, I will be able to get pricing to everyone. I have a feeling this will be a relatively affordable option for many who want more power.

Thanks
Dean

 

I don't think using the MDX block is the correct thing to do... its definately cheaper... like $1300 + gaskets + labor! However... that combination won't make good power at high RPMs! Rod/stroke isn't optimal. I think utilizing the 3.2 block with MDX crank, maybe stock rods w/ custom pistons should yield 11.5:1 compression (or whatever you want). I am doing some calculations on block height. Ideally to optimize the rod-ratio... you need custom rods.

With the 3.5 block.. you use the 3.5 timing belt etc. but 3.2 head-gaskets with the 3.2 heads.

You can also weld the crank journals, bo 0.010 or 0.020 over and make a 3.6 to 3.8 liter!

 

I am very interested in the 3.5L upgrade, especially if Dean can package it and its affordable. My biggest question is where the heck can I get it installed? If Florida is the only answer then I don't think I'd get it. If there was somewhere closer that could do it I'd be saving up those pennies

 

allmotor_2000...dude...uhm...the 3.2 and 3.5 blocks are the same part number

 

LiQiCE,

Any qualified mechanic can do this swap. We are working on being able to offer a "kit" for those that can't/don't want to send their car to us for the work.

Thanks
Dean

 

i'd say your mistaken...mines stamped j35a4,theres A2, j32a2,a1,30a ect...i dont see there's anyway they could be the same part number but have different engine stamps

 

j32a2 != j35a4

 

Allmotor,

Plz explain to me the differences and benifits with using an MDX crank and an MDX block.

Is the MDX block of larger bore than the CLS?

U said that 300cc more would not be able to achieve a 45hp bump. TypeR said that the only dyno that he's seen is the one that Doug supplies and his results were around 250. I can aggree with u that u can't achieve a 45hp bump with just a mear 300cc. Thats why I am also asking if that 250 was also with headers?

One more question. The power curve falls off before red line. Now is that due to the larger displacement and the cams off the CLS? If so then would a more aggressive high lobe allow extended power untill redline?











Juker008

 

that's with headers and the bore is the same it's all stroke

 

In the actual Honda/Acura parts catalog, the blocks are the same for the CLS/TLS/MDX and Odyssey, its the internals that are different. The blocks will have different codes on them based on the internals.

 

So... what I am saying is this... NA dynoes... scalbert (header, intake) makes 246whp... others who have similar mods make 240'ish whp. 3.5 upgrade makes 250whp... it might be a 10whp jump on the 3.2 and more on the torque side... but it doesn't give 45whp!!

The bore is the same... I don't know for sure yet but I think the 3.5 block is taller to accomodate the longer stroke. I am sure the combustion chamber volume is more on the MDX to lower compression a tad.

I haven't checked all the figure yet!