gnuts

iTrader: (1)

So I’ve been doing a lot of reading lately on the whole 3.5 L build. It seems that many of the threads are old, and the information is scattered.
I'm admittedly a newbie when it comes to this serious engine business, but I’m trying to do some reading to get a grasp of it all. I’m looking for some more power. I use the car as a daily driver, and a S/C (although it is reliable) is a little more upkeep.
Anyways I really want to get a parts list so I can price the whole thing out. I know from what I’ve read that there are a few ways of doing it, but I’m looking for the option that may be the most economical and reliable as a daily driver. Here is what I have so far. Hopefully the gurus can chime in. This may also help other people thinking of the same thing.

02-04 Odyssey crankshaft
02-04 Odyssey connecting rods
Main bearings and rod bearings
Can I use my CL-S pistons??

Kulrevon

You can use your CL-s pistons. I believe the older 3.5L (05?) RL pistons (11:1) or the New 3.5TL will give you higher compression if you are looking for that.

nbennettksu

iTrader: (2)

Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):

BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1

J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power

Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).

Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons :p (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.

J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.

This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.

J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

Note: Same options apply as listed below.

J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

There are also couple options:

Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.

Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:

-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00

Main bearings + rod bearings

-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR

pistons rings (per chosen model)

Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.

BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.

Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.

Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4

J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm

J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm

J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm

Kulrevon

I didn't want to post that because its such old information. and half of it is for J30 accords.

We now have '08 3.5TL-s. The '09 3.5TL which I think has higher compression. The J37 in the MDX and the TLSH and thhe RL.

I wish I had the all info to Update that.

typeR

look , just buy an '02 oddessey short block and a/c bracket ... and have some body swap ur pistons back in , will maybe need new rings ? may or may not cost more .. parts/vs additional labor , but if i were doing it again , id be keeping my block and pistons and just swap out crank and rods

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info guys. I read that long list of options....sort of confusing when you don't know that much about this stuff.
TypeR...hoping you'd give me some info thanks. That's what i had in mind too...seems to the simplest/most economical way of doing it.

So here is what i have:

02-04 Odyssey crankshaft, 13310-PGK-A00 (Honda part #)
02-04 Odyssey connecting rod, 13210-PGK-A00
Main bearings and rod bearings....part#?
A/C bracket?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

you won't need the a/c bracket if doing the internal swap. bare minimum requirements:
-connecting rods
-connecting rod bolts
-crank
-crank bearings
-gasket kit for when you tear apart the engine

CLS6SpeedNupe

yea either buy a 03 MDX block or Oddy block then buy 05 RL pistons and rings and swap them in then take ur heads and put them on and your done. Do a little porting here and there if you can.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Okay i see the two options now. Thanks for all the replies.
I guess it's a matter of cost. Probably pretty close either way. I'm going to look into that further now.
TypeR & CleanCL, have there been any downsides to the swap for you guys? I'm looking to keep this car for quite a while, as i have low km's....do you think it would effect it's reliability in any way? I read that gas milage stayed about the same.

Also curious with the mods i already have what i might be putting down. Thanks again.

GrandeInter10

hatee to hijack but i'm a CL-P and looking to do this swap and keep my s/c. as long as the gurus are all here...any suggestions?

typeR

port the blower , change the lower pulley (custom) ud make more power staying with the P and adding boost

jproy

I just finished putting together a custom MP90 supercharger kit from the MP62 Kit from Comptech. Its pretty crazy and fits well under the hood. I won’t be able to run it until I get it to Jotech to make a map for the emanage to run the RC 440cc injectors. Should be very cool at 9psi! Who cares what happens. The dyno will tell the truth and I will post #'s if I ever get around to making the map. This kit would be ferocious on a 3.5 built motor at 10psi while still running within prime efficiency range at that boost and more. Who knows, we will have to see what happens. I am going to sell it all to whoever wants it after I get it all running and we see what happens. If you want the whole car you can have that too.

nbennettksu

iTrader: (2)

you son of a beesting! you stole my idea!!! oh well, I suppose I must go with the Eaton M112 then.

typeR

what about a vortec VQ

TypeStylinOnU

u'll need to find a good shop in the gta since i dont think anyone has done this here

GrandeInter10

nice. good advice. thanks typer

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

That's because it's useless for us. All that new updated info would be useful for the newer gen TL guys.

Everything mentioned above relates to your block. If it's not mentioned, it doesn't work.

J32A1/A2, J30A1/A4 and some J35A4/A2's all have the same casting. Thus why you see the info above over and over. The newer gen blocks might work with the other newer gen blocks. That's something they can figure out themselves...

CLS6SpeedNupe

every time cocoa post I must read it

jproy

Hold on now! There is a guy on the OTHER board who is building a CLS block with 07 TLS crank and cams. He has made some kind of adapter for the slightly shorter shafts. It sounds odd but we will have to see. People have made some negative comments on a thread where it was discussed here but the reality is we will have to let the results speak for themselves. Should be interesting and it was all plug and play with all OEM parts.

CLS6SpeedNupe

True story

glockyvt

Quick question for folks who have done the swap. How many labor hours did it take in the shop, or if you did it yourself, how long did it take you?

I'm considering doing the basic swap, and have plenty of friends with the know-how (as well as myself), but I also watched one of them try to swap a 3400 from a grand am into his cavalier, and it's taken him 4-5 months of working on the weekends.

Not willing to have a nonrunning car for months on end while disassembling and reassembling the block.

jproy

Should take you less than ~50 hrs if its your first time with the right tools and good help. That has been my observation. I have not done it myself.

toitle

I was curious to know what kinda boost I could run with a turbo using this set up:

Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:

-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00

Main bearings + rod bearings

-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR

pistons rings (per chosen model)

Kulrevon

[QUOTE=Cocoa;10044617]That's because it's useless for us. All that new updated info would be useful for the newer gen TL guys.

Everything mentioned above relates to your block. If it's not mentioned, it doesn't work.
QUOTE]

Well Thats somewhat negative. The pistons out of the 3.5L's (TLs and 2009TL) work and have different compression ratios.

And the crank out of the new blocks bolts to the block but needs a spacer for the snout. SO This info should be updated.

The cams are also being run with spacers. I am not sure how much I trust those.

So everyone should stop being so negative about what doesn't work just because it hasn't been done yet.

Kulrevon

I believe that the 2007 3.5 TL-s has the same block as the Older j32s. So that crank pistons, rods, and cams should be a straight drop in.

rtatsutani

ACURA:

$28.82 172.9205 RL Ring set 0.25 OS 444620 $32.67 x 6 = 198.72
$44.54 267.24 05 RL pistons 0.25 OS444621 $50.47 x 6 = 302.82
$13.94 27.88 01 CL-S intake valve 8835 $15.13 x 2 = $30.26
$13.60 27.20 01 CL-S exhaust valve 8849 $14.75 x 2 = $29.50
$81.74 01 CL-S water pump 13652 $91.26
$24.45 48.90 head gaskets 7317 $32.12 x 2 = $64.24
$11.30 intake 5 10012 $11.71, $12.94 6 10030 $17.20, $12.76 7 10033 $17.35
$4.20 8.40 valve cover gaskets 7405 $4.69 x 2 = $9.38
$2.90 17.40 valve cover gasketB 7418 $3.54 x 6 = $21.24
$27.92 timing belt 8679 $31.16
$68.42 tensioner 8732 $76.40
$1.10 oring oil pickup 88295 $1.23
$1.48 oring rear main seal plate 88283 $1.64
$7.48 ear main seal plate outter 88058 $7.96
$1.52 oil hole gasket front crankshaft


$802

************************************************

Honda

Crankshaft $367.32
Bearings upper $8.84 x 4 = $35.36
Bearingslower $8.84 x 4 = $35.36
Connecting rod bearings $8.54 x 12 = 102.48
Connecting rod $79.48 x 6 = 476.88

$949


CURRENT TOTAL FOR

Labor Garage: $2700
Machine Shop Labor $899.48
Total charged from speed shop: $4106.50

JCharged

iTrader: (5)

I want that M90!