I have a 6 speed CL and it feels like it grinds going into 2nd gear. Its only on the 1-2 upshift and never on a downshift. It usually happens at low rpms and light throttle. Like in a parking lot or alley where you just want to get out of 1st asap so the car isn't so sensitive to the throttle. Yes. I am pushing the clutch all the way. It doesn't happen in any other gears. I was in a dealer for another issue and had the service advisor drive it but he said it felt fine.

 

I have the same problem going from 1 to 2 and very slightly on 3 to 4. It happens more when I've just started driving. Seems like as the trans fluid warms up it mostly goes away. It won't happen if you pull it out of 1st and let it hang in neutral for a second - which of course defeats the purpose of having a manual and being able to blast through the gears. I can't stand the thought of bringing it to the dealer and they probably have no clue anyway so I haven't yet. I've had no other problems that would require a trip there so far with about 4500 mi on it.

 

I have the same problem as well. Im not exactly sure what causes this grinding, possibly the syncros....I figured it would go away once I got more miles on the car, but it hasnt. Im going to have serviced sometime this week and I'll see if I cant get some answers.

 

No worries!!!!!!!! Do not panic, this is not a problem with the tranny ! All Acura MT do this. The stiffness you feel is the synchros of 1st and 2nd. You are right it does go away after the tranny fluid warms up.

This is a factory design and nothing is wrong. YOu service advisor is right.

 

I noticed this too. My Integra Type R used to do the same thing but it wasn't and noticeable. I think you can add a friction modifier to the transmission fluid to reduce this but I'm not sure what it's called or where to get it. Does anyone know?

 

There are synthetic oil/lubrecants for manual tranmissions (Redline makes one). But will this solve that type of problem? Does seem a bit annoying that such wonderful transmission have this quirk. When cant Honda/Acura fix this flaw?

 

You're right that it does it more when its cold. The first shift of the morning into 2nd ALWAYS does it. But its wierd how sometimes the shift is perfectly smooth and other times it feels like the clutch is half engaged.

 

it's not a flaw.

 

I have not noticed that at all. I've grinded once or twice but jusy from being lazy with the clutch.

 

Funny how you can diagnose a problem on the forum.

I have a newsflash for you:

Even if you feel this is normal, there is still something wrong. Let's use a little common sense for a moment, shall we? If you hear/feel grinding while shifting, then MOST LIKELY, there is a problem with the synchonizers.

Now what exactly do you think is happening to make this grinding sound? I'll tell you-- For whatever reason (as far as diagnosing on the forum), the synchros are NOT doing their job as far as matching the speeds of the shafts to allow a smooth transition from one speed to the next. The "grind" you hear/feel is actually the "constantly meshed" gears and the "dog teeth" of the synchros.

What does this all mean? Simple- If it is allowed to continue, the tranny WILL eventually fail. So please stop telling people NOT to worry about it and that it is normal. It doesn't take an genius to realize that it is not normal.

 

I don't get a grind, but the shift from 1->2 is stiffer then the rest.

It's hard to describe - the shift from 3->4, let's say, is like creamy, slippery butter. The shift from 1->2 is like butter that has been taken to room temperature, but is not completely softened yet (I guess I feel like baking a pie today). It's not a clunk or a grind, but not a slick motion either.

I always thought that I was feeling more of the load the engine (and syncro?) is encountering - the load is more significant from stop->1 and 1->2 then 5->6, for example.

Another way of describing it: when lifting up the clutch from stop->1 or 1->2 there is more of a finesse or skill that needs to be employed then when shifting from 5->6. You could basically pop the clutch out on the 5->6 shift and not really notice a huge lurch (not that I would ever do that). I think this has to do with my 'load' theory above.

I noticed this with my Integra too. It's never bothered me, nor do I think that there was something wrong. I've not noticed that it is only an issue when it is cold.

I would agree with both Zapata & Tom2 -- the 1->2 shift being different is a Honda quirk, but grinding is never normal.

 

Wait until the winter.... I don't know how cold it gets in your part of CA, but here in NY, a truly bad synchro will be MUCH worse in the colder temps of winter.

I had an older car with worn synchros that would act up terribly in the winter, but in the heat of the summer, the bad synchros would be barely noticeable.

I sold the car in July

 

I agree that this is not a "normal" or acceptable thing. When it crunches into second, that is the sound of gears that are not meshing the way they are supposed to. Also, I have owned seven other vehicles in the past with manuals, including a 97 Civic and none of them did this. It seems that if it goes away, or at least gets better after some driving, then it relates to the viscosity of the transmission oil. Perhaps Acura will come up with an additive or there may be an adjustment that can be done on the syncros. It didn't happen with my car as soon as I got it so that makes me think something drifted out of adjustment. I don't think this is a fatal problem, but I do agree that it might get worse after summer is over and the oil is colder on startup in the morning.

 

Hmmm - maybe I'm thinking of something different then what is being described on this thread.

I've not noticed this 'problem' when cold versus warm.

I think what I am describing is a 'clutch finesse' issue - moreso in early gears - where you can feel the load on your left foot during the shift. I don't notice any actual problem with the syncros or getting into gear.

 

Funny how you can be an asshole without even trying. Shit man, i've done more than my share of research on the various honda sites and honda co., websites to know what i'm talking about on this particular topic. Honda has apparently engineered this into it's cars. It's apparent most of the MT that the company offers.

Please bite me.


Instead of using words like "Most likely" and "common sense" do your research and use definative words and facts before you start acting like know-it-all.

The 1>2 shift on hondas does have this oddity to it.

 

Let me see if I can better describe what I'm experiencing. I put a ? after the word grinding in the title because I don't know if that's how I should classify it. Maybe notchy or ratchety is better. On all the other gears, when you put it in gear, its a smooth motion. The only time there's resistance in the gearshift is when its fully in gear. With 2nd, you pull and hit a resistance point, pull more and get another resistance point, and keep pulling till its all the way in. The result its a very rough feeling accompanied by a sound from the shifter. Its definitely not the loud grind you get when you totally blow a shift.

The oddest part is that its only on the 1-2 upshift. I've done some downshifts into 2 w/o blipping the throttle (so the load on the synchros should be high, right?) and never felt or heard this sensation when doing that.

I'm in SoCal and it doesn't get that cold here. High 30's in the morning in the dead of winter for a few days each year.

 

Hmmm. This is not what I was thinking. I don't have this with my six speed. I don't get a sound with a typical shift into 2nd.

I wouldn't expect your shift should be notchy or ratchety unless you did a bad shift or there is a synchro problem.

 

I don't own a CL (waiting to compare it to the G35 coupe). I have test driven it four times. I'm a pretty observant person (experimental physicist). But I have never felt this 1->2 issue... maybe its not universal...
Zapata. Your research may show that its fairly common for honda, but why would they design such a feature? Not trying to be an asshole. Just having an intelligent discussion.

 

I just want to get a word in on this one. I too am experiencing this 'problem' with the 1-2 shifts. I figured I'd wait past the break-in period but the car still does it (almost 1500 miles). It rarely does it when warm, but as mentioned should not do it AT ALL. I did not pay this much money to have a notchy 2nd gear. Please keep us updated those of you have notified the dealer about this...

 

So I drove to work this morning (a lot of city stop & go stuff) and tried to pay attention to the feel during the shifts both when the car was cold (relative - it only got down to the low 70's) and warm.

I've decided that I completely confused myself earlier in this thread. I don't feel any difference in moving between gears, whether 1->2 or 4->5. No grind, no clunk, no real sensation except the slip into the gate.

I think that I was confusing what I term 'clutch finesse' for the problem that was originally posted.

 

Ok, this is not a problem. I had the same exact thing happen to me, i took it to the service shop, he drove it and said, this is normal, it will get better with miles. That was at 2500 miles. Im now at 6000 and it is not a problem at all, even when the tranny fluid is cold. So just wait.

The reason this happens is because with the first run of 6 speed RSX's, there were a handful of engines blown from mis-shifts from 5-2, etc. So honda made the new RSX's and CL's have a more "aggressive/stiffer" shift. Makes sense to me. I like having the feeling of giving it a good push into gear, makes the car feel more "meaty" and not like a 1987 CRX.

 

It's impossible to have an intelligent discussion with a total asshole. He's just upset because he's trying to convince himself to trade for a MT in the near future.

Like I said before, if in fact there is a grinding feel/sound when shifting into ANY gear, that is not normal, no matter what dickboy says. All the research in the world will not change that fact.

Now if this grinding is a result of driver error (e.g.- not fully depressing the clutch pedal before shifting) then I'd agree that there is nothing wrong. But I highly doubt that ALL of the MT drivers here that are complaining about this problem are because of any type of driver error.

Zapata, you are doing a disservice to the MT drivers on this forum by continually telling them not to worry about this problem.

In your vast array of research, have you come across any info on the synchros used in the CL-S? I was wondering if they are double or triple cone synchros??

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If the problem is indeed the synchros, we'll all hear more complaints when the cold weather starts arriving. I'll have to bookmark this thread and bring it back in the winter.

 

If the only thing that you're experiencing is a "harder" push of the gearshift lever to put it into gear, then yes, that is normal.

Any manual trans car will be harder to put into gear when everything is cold. But the problem people are complaining about here is "grinding" while shifting.

 

Yeah, and do you know why it doesn't happen if you "let it hang in neutral for a second"??

Simple- Because if you pause, you're allowing the internals to begin to "spin down" (slow down) enough that when the synchro does engage, it is able to do it's job. This tells me that you do indeed have a WEAK synchro in your transaxle.

Do you know how to properly double clutch? If you do, then try it. You should NEVER get any type of gear/synchro grind when double clutching because of the fact that you are manually slowing the rotating speeds without using the synchros at all.

A little experimentation here will completely solve this mystery.

 

There are multiple cone synchonizers on gears 1 through 4. There is information on this at the hondanews.com site under acura. Is this significant to synchronizer problems?
Multiple cones certainly make shifting more of a pleasure.

 

No, double or triple cone synchros are better for durability. I would hope that Acura would use them on the CL-S engine.

 

As far as I have ever been able to tell, Honda/Acura pays careful attention to manual transmission detail. You should read the information on the acuranews website. My experience is that no one makes manuals that are as short throw, and light effort and precise. I have driven the S2000, the RSX the new Civic Si and the acura 6 speed and all are ergonomically wonderful. I have also owned Accord 5 speeds as well.
Honda seems to be the only manufacturer that talks about the use of multiple cone synchronizers. The Nissans and Toyotas I have driven are terrible and I also thought (forgive me) that the Acura 6 speed was nicer that the BMW 330i that i drove.
I know for instance that the RSX 6 speed has triple cone synchonizers for 2nd gear. Not sure about the CL except that there are mulitiple cones on gears 1 - 4
I'm a believer.

 

Now that I think about it, I wouldn't describe the shifter feel as grinding but rather as notchyness. When you grind a gear, it feels more like a high speed vibration in the shift lever. You can also hear the gear grind when this happens. I don't hear anything when the shifter feels notchy. I don't really think there is anything wrong with the 6 speed. I just think it will take a while for some of the notchyness to go away. But it will never completely go away.

 

Yes. This is very different from the bzzzt you get when you flub a shift. I used to have a card with a failing 2nd gear syncho which would grind when downshifting. Totally different feeling than the CL. I can live with the feel of the CL's 2nd gear as long as I don't have to buy a new tranny in 51,000 miles.