2003 CL-S review from forbes.com
01-21-2002, 10:15 AM
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Cruisin'
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2003 CL-S review from forbes.com
Forbes.com does a LOT of automotive reviews/stories - I check it daily. Here's a fairly positive review of the new CL-S
http://www.forbes.com/2002/01/21/0121test.html
(apolgies if link doesn't work perfectly - this is my first post here.)
Replacing 175k '89 Integra-LS with the 6 speed in a month or so.
http://www.forbes.com/2002/01/21/0121test.html
(apolgies if link doesn't work perfectly - this is my first post here.)
Replacing 175k '89 Integra-LS with the 6 speed in a month or so.
01-21-2002, 10:50 AM
#5
The Creator
and here you have it folks...
thank you and goodnight 
Think that's bad? That's about as good as any car in the industry. The BMW 330i, a close competitor on specs and performance, loses just about the same amount of value. And the Saab 9-3 SE loses about 60% of its value; the Pontiac Bonneville SLE loses even more.
01-21-2002, 10:55 AM
#6
6 speed...
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Speaking of comforts, the cockpit of the Type-S is a fair bit nattier than the 2001/2002 models, with titanium trim on the doors and center console, perforated leather door inserts and seats (the latter are also a bit firmer and more comfortable during hard driving), metallic-faced analog gauges and a six-disc, in-dash CD-based audio system from Bose.
As we said in our review of the new Audi A4 3.0, it's one solid performer. Get it with quattro all-wheel drive, and you have a car that will turn in more sharply than the Acura, with a lot more sure-footedness. You can also get the Audi with 45-series tires (55-series are stock, just like with the CL) and a stiffer suspension.
01-21-2002, 02:03 PM
#7
2nd Gear
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Hi, I sent this letter to Forbes concerning their review:
The author of that article makes some good and valid points, but he loses all credibility when he states that one should look toward Audi for a great example of a manual transmission. Has he ever driven an Audi manual, or VW for that matter? They make the worst manual transmissions on earth: the transmissions are rubbery, they lack feel, and are precisely inprecise!!! As well, his comparing the two door CL to the four door Audi and the BMW are completely irrelevant. He fails to mention that a four door CL can be purchased in the form of a TL, and that when reviewing two cars, one should review it with cars of the same criteria (ie two door cars with other two door cars). One should not be in the habit of comparing two unrelated subjects. As well, I find it odd that this person from Forbes magazine, after stating that the costs of maintance for the BMW are considerably higher than the Acura, and after stating, as well, that the BMW has a higher base price, and even higher price point when equally equiped, should say that "there won't be a huge cost difference in four years." Tell me something about the extra ten grand I have for purchasing a similarly equiped CL with a similarly equiped BMW (not including maintainence of course) is not worth mentioning. And Forbes, I'm sure that the investment of 10K won't make a difference at all in four years when the cost difference is "negible"!
David
The author of that article makes some good and valid points, but he loses all credibility when he states that one should look toward Audi for a great example of a manual transmission. Has he ever driven an Audi manual, or VW for that matter? They make the worst manual transmissions on earth: the transmissions are rubbery, they lack feel, and are precisely inprecise!!! As well, his comparing the two door CL to the four door Audi and the BMW are completely irrelevant. He fails to mention that a four door CL can be purchased in the form of a TL, and that when reviewing two cars, one should review it with cars of the same criteria (ie two door cars with other two door cars). One should not be in the habit of comparing two unrelated subjects. As well, I find it odd that this person from Forbes magazine, after stating that the costs of maintance for the BMW are considerably higher than the Acura, and after stating, as well, that the BMW has a higher base price, and even higher price point when equally equiped, should say that "there won't be a huge cost difference in four years." Tell me something about the extra ten grand I have for purchasing a similarly equiped CL with a similarly equiped BMW (not including maintainence of course) is not worth mentioning. And Forbes, I'm sure that the investment of 10K won't make a difference at all in four years when the cost difference is "negible"!
David
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01-21-2002, 02:55 PM
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13 Second CLS Defender :)
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"...in-dash CD-based audio system from Bose. We mention this last feature because sound replication was excellent, with very crisp imaging and clarity. Bose often slaps its name on sound systems without really following through with good engineering, but the Acura's stereo is exceptional..."
What the hell was this guy smoking?? Exceptional stereo...?? WTF
No Highs...No Low's .. Must Be Bose......
What is his reference of comparison.. Yugo? Daewoo..?
And Dont get me started on ->
"..Acceleration: 0-60mph in 6.6 seconds (est.) ..."
And why did a review of a 6MT CLS turn into a comparo of a 330?? If they are so god damned different and Bimmer is superior why is everyone got cock envy of the CL and feel the need to constantly compare .....
01-21-2002, 10:58 PM
#9
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Audi manuals
I agree with TDH. I have driven both Audi and VW manuals transmission. They are not nearly as good as Honda/Acura products. Rubbery notchy. Actually pissed me off. I expected fine German precision. Was a bad joke
01-23-2002, 08:32 AM
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Reply from Forbes
Forbes sent this reply: (valid, I think)
Let me guess, you own a CL? Let me also guess that you haven't driven a
2002 Audi A4 with its six-speed manual transmission.... I hate to burst
your bubble, but they've made great strides here. If you shift through
the new Acura tranny and compare it to the new Audi's you're not going
to find much difference. Neither is close to BMW's, sadly, but you
haven't a fair claim against Audi until you really drive the car
yourself. I have, and a coin toss would decide the Acura/Audi
difference. They are that close.
As for the cost of a BMW 330i over the course of four years (sticker is
about $3,500 difference), if the average cost (and I stress average) of
maintenance over four years is $500 more for the BMW (not my numbers but
according to Intellichoice.com) you're up $3,500 over four years on the
BMW not $10,000. If you can't swing that much money over four years then
get the CL. End of story. But like we said, we think (that is, it's our
opinion) that people do not buy cars the way they buy stocks.
It's more like why you get married to the person you do. You have to
live with them. You have to enjoy them. They are not strictly speaking,
investments. It is a decision highly influenced by emotion (hence your
passionate appeal to adjectives below) and thus, may well be worth
$3,500 over four years or $2.39 a day more than the CL Type-S.
Ah, and the TL? Sadly it's not at all in the same league because they
haven't done a thing about the transmission or the meek, soft
suspension. I could have easily plugged that car in but I think it's
more like an ES 300 fighter, soft, middle of the road, middle
everything. But your point about four-doors vs. four-doors is viable. So
I could have thrown a 9-3 Saab out there. Now you have a contest the
Acura wins hands down. What else though? A TT? That's not a fair fight
-- can't really fit a soul in the back of the TT. And the two-door
Beemers are just like the four-doors only less convenient....
The point still is that the Acura is a perfectly great car, but just one
that lacks real passion for us. We know that doesn't go for its buyers
and that's dandy. As we've said often, reviewing cars isn't about
tallying p/e ratios--it's about giving opinions. We know they aren't
always loved (rarely, in fact, are they) but they don't have to be nor
are they meant to be. But do they provoke? Ha!
Michael Frank
Forbes.com
Let me guess, you own a CL? Let me also guess that you haven't driven a
2002 Audi A4 with its six-speed manual transmission.... I hate to burst
your bubble, but they've made great strides here. If you shift through
the new Acura tranny and compare it to the new Audi's you're not going
to find much difference. Neither is close to BMW's, sadly, but you
haven't a fair claim against Audi until you really drive the car
yourself. I have, and a coin toss would decide the Acura/Audi
difference. They are that close.
As for the cost of a BMW 330i over the course of four years (sticker is
about $3,500 difference), if the average cost (and I stress average) of
maintenance over four years is $500 more for the BMW (not my numbers but
according to Intellichoice.com) you're up $3,500 over four years on the
BMW not $10,000. If you can't swing that much money over four years then
get the CL. End of story. But like we said, we think (that is, it's our
opinion) that people do not buy cars the way they buy stocks.
It's more like why you get married to the person you do. You have to
live with them. You have to enjoy them. They are not strictly speaking,
investments. It is a decision highly influenced by emotion (hence your
passionate appeal to adjectives below) and thus, may well be worth
$3,500 over four years or $2.39 a day more than the CL Type-S.
Ah, and the TL? Sadly it's not at all in the same league because they
haven't done a thing about the transmission or the meek, soft
suspension. I could have easily plugged that car in but I think it's
more like an ES 300 fighter, soft, middle of the road, middle
everything. But your point about four-doors vs. four-doors is viable. So
I could have thrown a 9-3 Saab out there. Now you have a contest the
Acura wins hands down. What else though? A TT? That's not a fair fight
-- can't really fit a soul in the back of the TT. And the two-door
Beemers are just like the four-doors only less convenient....
The point still is that the Acura is a perfectly great car, but just one
that lacks real passion for us. We know that doesn't go for its buyers
and that's dandy. As we've said often, reviewing cars isn't about
tallying p/e ratios--it's about giving opinions. We know they aren't
always loved (rarely, in fact, are they) but they don't have to be nor
are they meant to be. But do they provoke? Ha!
Michael Frank
Forbes.com
01-23-2002, 09:58 AM
#11
Cruisin'
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TDH - thanks for posting MF's reply
He's very good about responding to folks (or at least has been to me) -- and, as you see from his e-mail (whether you agree or not), he takes it seriously.
Lots of good (and constantly updated) automotive stuff from MF & Jerry Flint on forbes.com
I'm still going to get the 6sp CL-S, based largely on the reliability and engineering tradition of Honda/Acura.
Lots of good (and constantly updated) automotive stuff from MF & Jerry Flint on forbes.com
I'm still going to get the 6sp CL-S, based largely on the reliability and engineering tradition of Honda/Acura.
01-23-2002, 11:14 AM
#12
CL 6 speeder
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audi 6 speed.
I of course have not driven the new CL 6 speed but I have driven the A4 6 speed. The only thing i would say the the forbes reviewer is that it was clunky and notchy and not nearly has short throw and precise and light effort as an RSX, Prelude, Accord or S2000. I have driven all of them this year.
01-23-2002, 11:56 AM
#13
TDH/Mike/Forbes reviewer,
To other members, sorry for the post, please skip if not interested.
I never get to respond to car reviews so I thank you for respnding in this forum.
I agree that there's more to buying a car than just looking at numbers. But shouldn't reviewers be a little more objective and not emphasize on personal feelings. From reading car mags, a lot of car reviewers do emphasize on this. While I certainly do not possess the auto technical knowledge you guys have, I certainly have my opinions too. When I look at a car reviews, I look for numbers, pictures as well as "objective" views from the tester/reviewer. I understand that it may be difficult, at times, to give a true objective view on things. But comments like "true passion", the "X fun factor", etc. that I've read in car reviews just do not carry any weight. I have an Acura CL and I certainly didn't buy the car over a BMW 330 just for the value and numbers. I think it's a better car. But that's my opinions and since I'm not a professional reviewer I'm not looking to educate the public about the car. It bothers me to see that so many reviewers do this.
A lot of reviewers happen to think that BMW interiors are great. A lot of people that I know hate BMW interiors thinking they are relatively cheap looking. While there's more to ergonomics than big control buttons and knobs, the temp and radio controls in the Bimmers are just downright hard to use. But no reviewers mentions that. They just all rave about it. Don't get it.
To other members, sorry for the post, please skip if not interested.
I never get to respond to car reviews so I thank you for respnding in this forum.
I agree that there's more to buying a car than just looking at numbers. But shouldn't reviewers be a little more objective and not emphasize on personal feelings. From reading car mags, a lot of car reviewers do emphasize on this. While I certainly do not possess the auto technical knowledge you guys have, I certainly have my opinions too. When I look at a car reviews, I look for numbers, pictures as well as "objective" views from the tester/reviewer. I understand that it may be difficult, at times, to give a true objective view on things. But comments like "true passion", the "X fun factor", etc. that I've read in car reviews just do not carry any weight. I have an Acura CL and I certainly didn't buy the car over a BMW 330 just for the value and numbers. I think it's a better car. But that's my opinions and since I'm not a professional reviewer I'm not looking to educate the public about the car. It bothers me to see that so many reviewers do this.
A lot of reviewers happen to think that BMW interiors are great. A lot of people that I know hate BMW interiors thinking they are relatively cheap looking. While there's more to ergonomics than big control buttons and knobs, the temp and radio controls in the Bimmers are just downright hard to use. But no reviewers mentions that. They just all rave about it. Don't get it.
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