lenjiay

hay...im thinkin about the 19x8.5 dronell m-10. its one nice looking rim. this is the smallest size it comes in, so i have to make sure it is gonna rub or not. i know this size will guarantee rubbing with the eibach prokit i already have. but is there something i can do? like rolling up my fenders? will that leave enough room. what offset will i need for 8.5?? thanks

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

I still think they'll rub, but I would assume somewhere in the +55 offset range. My 18x8 +50s are just flush with the inside of the wheel well.

soopa

i say you might be able to just fit 8.5 with a +50 or higher offset.

in fact... you WILL be able to IMO.

langjae

8.5 is pretty wide. I'm JUST clearing with my 19's and they're 50. My Decoltes were 55 and fit perfectly with no room to spare.

soopa

no, your TIRES have no room to spare.

hell still be running 235's on an 8.5" wheel... so technically the whole shit isnt wider.

235's are 9.25" something wide.


my 19's are 8" wide with a 235 tire and +45 offset and there is room. i think 8.5" with a +50 or higher offset wouldnt have a problem.

I think you might even be able to squeeze a comptech drop in there with as low as +48.

mantis23

I believe the M-10s have a +33 offset. So according to Soopa's statement, the m-10s probably won't fit.

langjae

Oh yea, of course..I said that assuming to take into account the tires. You're not gonna just have the rims on are you? :P

lenjiay

crap....since i already have the prokit in, does that mean there is no way its gonna fit?

EricL

I doubt it. Of course, without the exact offset and tire size you want to install, who knows for sure.

There was a working setup with 19x8" +51 offset wheels with 235/35-19 Nittos (without about 2" of lowering). (blxmjx's Acura CLS).

That is getting to be a rather tight fit.

And, if you want to just say, "Well, what's a 1/2" increase in width..." The tires section width INCREASES with wider rims!

Finally, if you go to the 225/35-19 tire (to compensate), you’re starting to talk about a pretty scary load rating of 88!!!!

soopa

I was waiting for you to chime in Eric...

you are SUCH a pessimist

I seem to recall your doubting of blxmjx's setup even fitting.

I have 19x8, +45, 235/35... fit's nicely. We will see just how far I can drop it tonight.

I guess its possible the tires width will increase with a wider wheel.

But, I dont see how it would be such a drastic difference...

the top/sides of a 235 tire really arent going to stretch too far going from 8 to 8.5.

I dunno, I mean, as always I could be wrong... your Bill Nye the Science Guy...

But I'm just sayin as I see it...

But your right, until lenjiay gives us some final figures, namely the offset... we can't even make the most educated guess.

Though, I still believe you could squeeze 19x8.5 with a 235 tire under a CL with a 1.5 inch drop. Assuming an offset of +50 or higher.

EricL

Well, I guess you will be the one doing it – so if you toss 4 people in the car and go for a “death run”, you will be the new “voice of authority” on 19x8 +45 235/35-19s.

RE: Doubting Arnolds setup – that was during the time that an equally “reliable” member of the board told me (in no uncertain terms) that his 17x8 +48s with Toyo 235s and Comptechs rubbed and I would hate it…

If you asking if I measured the increase with wheel width – NO! However, if you go to http://www.yokohamatire.com/04a4d.html you will see that there is some clear data on how the section width as published in the manufacturer’s charts are based on the “measuring rim size”. The measuring rim size is that center number (highlighted in some fashion) that is used to derive the section width of a tire. Now, just to be clear, if you are talking about the tread contact patch, that is something that “most” sources I’ve looked at are not in full agreement – so you are quite correct about there probably being very little change in the actual contact patch.

As a more practical approach, there is the tire calculator (link around somewhere) that computes tire and wheel width combos. Try changing the wheel width (with a width compensating offset) and you will see the tire clearance specs changing

Except from link:

“When this same tire is mounted on a wider-than-design rim width wheel, the specifications can change dramatically. The tire's section width increases by 0.2" for every 0.5" increase in rim width…”

In the case of the 235s you have (in a Nitto), the measuring rim is an 8.5", so the section width would actually be reduced by .2" on the 8" rim!

Rubbing can come from a lot of different areas -- I sure don't presume to know all of them. (But, contributing factors--to some extent--can be calculated.)

Well, anything is possible, and I don’t know for sure! If you like, I will swap hats from Devil’s Advocate and change it into “Go for it”, and tell people that everything works – “Heck, go ahead and buy it. It’s not my money!” (And then see what fails as a result -- empirics triumphs over theory)

RE: Your experiment…

A half-inch width increase corresponds to 12.7 mm. Now divide the 12.7 mm by 2 for 6.35mm increase in inboard and outboard width of the 8.5” wheel.

Take the known +51 offset (that works in the 19x8”s on Arnold’s car) and move the wheel out by 6 mm: 51-6 = 45 offset. So, perhaps if your wheel doesn’t run, the wheel itself should probably clear on the inside (based on his experience…) Who knows about 6mm of reduced outer fender clearance ? It’s pioneering time…

So, this now gets into the maybe it fits and maybe it doesn’t…

And the point about 225 being installed to fit is a valid one with one exception – *load rating”. Do you really want to run (or recommend) tires that have a 200 lb per tire rating less than stock (with or without an XL rating)?

4500 fully loaded weight with a 63% front bias means the car (at Acura’s full gross weight) will have right around 1400 lbs of static weight on each front tire. The 88 SL tires are rated at 1235 lbs@max pressure

soopa

ummm... too in depth for me to understand right now.

but I will faq this when we get some more data.

I did a 4 people death run this weekend and no rubbing on stock suspension... just for experimentation.

The ground controls are on today... so ill test with those too.

EricL

A list of know working combos would be sweet

Technique is running 245/40-17s on 17x8" +48s (No lowering tests . . . yet)

IMO -- The “how much lower” part possible with the adjustable ground controls would be invaluable…

RE: Wheel width influence on tire section width:

For every 1/2" increase in wheel width, the tire width (not the tread!!!!) grows by 1/5"

For every 1/2" decrease in wheel width, the tire's width narrows by 1/5"

And here is THAT tire/wheel link again (for the 27th time):

http://www.tolan-hoechst.com/cars/tirecalc.htm

EricL

Emergency Tire Calc Warning System:


I just tried and noticed that the "Oh, so popular tire/wheel calc link" DOES NOT calculate the change in tire section width due to the changes in the "measuring wheel width"...

(There are also differences between different makes and brands of tires)...

Use with caution…

End of Warning -- Thank You

lenjiay

Was planning to put 235/35/19 on the 19x8.5 dronell m-10. The offset for the wheel is +33. So basically, this won't fit huh? I really really love these rims. How can I fit them?

EricL

Well, it would clear the inside...


IMHO -- they would be sticking out (towards the fenders) by almost an inch. I think if you looked at my 17x8 +48s and the way the tires look close to the fenders, it would you give you pause.

You're talking about almost 3/4" in more tire and wheel heading towards the "outside" (from the 1/2" wider wheel and 12mm greater offset compared to soopa's)...

lenjiay

isn't it the tire that matters the most when it comes down to fitting? like if 19x8 fits with 235/35/19, then shouldn't it be the same if 19x8.5 with 235/35/19 fit as well. only thing off will be the offset, since the only offset this wheel is offered in is +35. btw, the P.C.D is 5-114. This is what our cars fit.. rite?

EricL

Look, if you really want to "pioneer" this, go ahead (I don't have 19x8s on my car). If you lower, hit a bump, and/or load up the car, I think that you're going to be having some trouble with rubbing on the fenders (at a minimum). But, this is just my opinion.

When I was buying wheels, the guy told me that if they didn't work, they were not returnable. Perhaps your people are more flexible -- I don't have a clue...

There is a difference between the tire width on a 8.5" rim (it happens to be the "measuring rim" for the 235/35-19) and the tire width on a 8.5" rim -- the tire will be .2" less wide on the 8" wide rim. (IMO -- it only impacts the sidewall rubbing issues)

So, if you’re only talking about rubbing by the tread, perhaps you have a point.

But, I don't think that anyone would want to neglect rubbing on the side of the tire; rubbing or clearance on the inside of the wheel (high offsets or very wide wheels); rubbing in areas of the fender due to section width; and a number of other issues that would relate to: wheel offset, wheel size, wheel width, tire size (section width and tread width), car load (number of passengers, sub-woofers, etc), spring rates, shock rates, amount of lowering, and lots of other stuff...

The bolt pattern is correct and you could try (perhaps you can find a willing partner to help you out)...

You would be helped by going to a “meet” and checking out some 8” wide wheels – look for yourself…

I can tell you REALLY want those wheels.

blxmjx

19x8.5 w/ a +35 won't fit correctly IMHO, unless your gonna leave the car @ stock height. That setup will stick out from your fenders a bit and you're gonna rub like crazy,especially if you're riding on eibachs. If you really want to do an 8.5" rim you gotta go with at least an offset >50mm in my opinion. I personally think that 19X8's are ideal though, with an offset in the mid 40's to low 50's.

soopa

i completely agree.

EricL

Arnold, I wonder about it the clearance between the suspension and the inside of the rim. Even on my 17x8 +48s, it looked like it was getting "close" on the inside. Did you have a look at the wheel rim/flange clearance (with your 19x8s)??? If so, how much was there?

When I checked my SSRs, a pencil would fit between the inside rim and the suspension (and that was a tight fit)...

goowakjai

hmm, ok. all very good responses. i'm having the same dilemma as lenjiay. the rims i'm getting are 19x8.0 with +49 offset. will that rub? what tire specs should i get?

eman

i think the concern here is exaggerated. rememeber we are talking about millimeters here. so if we look at extremes (+37/+55 offset) there is only a difference of 18mm or 1.8cm. i understand that this is a big difference but i used this example to show that even the biggest discrepancies in offset only equate to 1.8cm. so all the discussion about +42 or +45 or +48 offset really wont matter that much since you are only talking about 3mm in that case. does this make sense or am I completely off base here? anyone?

BTW- i am rolling on 18x7.5 with a +37 offset and the wheels are flush to the fenders with NO rub. Comptech Springs too.

EricL

You're forgetting something...

You are running a 7.5" wide wheel, so with the same offset as the stock wheel, you are only adding .25" (6 mm) to each side of the rim (given a OEM offset of +55). And the tires are 225...

Now move to an 8.5" rim -- there is now an additional .5" added to each side of the rim. Compared with the 7.5s (once again assuming equal offset) the 8.5s will have an additional 12mm going in and out.

So, to translate to the 8.5" (using your setup), there is now 12mm that should be added from your +37 offset to "align" the outside of your wheel (not tire) width with the 8.5" (with same offset).

37 + 12 = 49 mm in an 8.5" with the outside of the wheel "matching" yours.

Now, toss in the 37 mm and 49 - 37 = 12 mm ~= 1/2" now outside the fender (based on your described-outside-wheel fitment)...

And with a 235/35-19, there is now even more sidewall heading out…

lenjiay

thanks guys...i really wanted these rims...but i guess i'll have to pass, or get wide body!

goowakjai

so what's option #2 ?

lenjiay

probably 18x7.5 or 18x8 volk se37a

EricL

Those are both very light, strong, and nice looking forged wheels....

goowakjai

may i make another suggestion, just to throw another name out there. how about the dronnel type m-05 ? they have 18x7.5 or 19x7.5, both with offsets of +48, which sounds like what you're looking for.

lenjiay

checked those out....i actually put those right in front of my car. it looks nice..but not the style i was looking for. those rims are really light as well.

goowakjai

lenjiay,

where you getting your rims at in LA? i'm looking into picking mine up pretty soon too. i was looking at the dronnel wheels, but decided to go another route. maybe we can meet up some time and go hunt down some rims

blxmjx

Ya, mine was a pretty tight fit too.

goowakjai

so what tire size for 19x8 ?