13.28@105.34
04-07-2004, 11:21 AM
#81
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Originally posted by scalbert
It should be clear whose suggestion to weight above the other. I doubt Darrin could spell turbo let alone build a custom system.
Allmotor is basing his opinion on experience when pushing it on this engine. He certainly has this and other experience in which to make an educated opinion.
But honestly it is unknown at this time. We'll have to see what occurs later when engines are pushed with the pulley. It might be just fine; or it may not. But without significant equipment and testing we will just have to wait.
It should be clear whose suggestion to weight above the other. I doubt Darrin could spell turbo let alone build a custom system.
Allmotor is basing his opinion on experience when pushing it on this engine. He certainly has this and other experience in which to make an educated opinion.
But honestly it is unknown at this time. We'll have to see what occurs later when engines are pushed with the pulley. It might be just fine; or it may not. But without significant equipment and testing we will just have to wait.
but lost of people have been running these pullies for years with no problems, i know all motor had issues with his cause of the comptech clutch, but on my car they work fine and i like the power gains, will see how much they helped when i hit the 1320 today in a few hours, i'm looking for 14.1....
04-07-2004, 02:52 PM
#82
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Originally posted by scalbert
Thanks, that makes me feel a bit more secure.
But one street tires and with me driving I don't know about the ET. :o
Thanks, that makes me feel a bit more secure.
But one street tires and with me driving I don't know about the ET. :o
04-08-2004, 05:54 AM
#84
Suzuka Master
Allmotor is giving you some good advice...
Originally posted by darrinb
good one scalbert
but lost of people have been running these pullies for years with no problems, i know all motor had issues with his cause of the comptech clutch, but on my car they work fine and i like the power gains, will see how much they helped when i hit the 1320 today in a few hours, i'm looking for 14.1....
good one scalbert
but lost of people have been running these pullies for years with no problems, i know all motor had issues with his cause of the comptech clutch, but on my car they work fine and i like the power gains, will see how much they helped when i hit the 1320 today in a few hours, i'm looking for 14.1....
However, there are reams of information on this topic, and people who race might have different priorities than people who want to add a few HP (and a few MPG) with a seemingly “safe” mod. The problem is what happens over the long term, and if you have a 6-speed, and/or add FI (or increase HP in other ways), you need to look at the big picture.
You would need to do the tests that were mentioned very early on in the “pulley” threads, and this does not include oil analysis. At best, this will just tell you if you are going to have severe wear. You would need an FM discriminator to pick off the crank sensor timing data and see what happened before and after the UR pulley was installed. Of all the modifications, the engineering books suggest that the non-damped crank pulley is one of the most dangerous changes one can make (to be clear – moving from a damped pulley to a non-damped pulley). I don't know anyone here that got a FEA analysis of the crank modes from Honda/Acura. Finally, the UR people make a well machined product, but have a less than stellar record at being open and honest about possible problems. I got nothing but anecdotal information when I talked with them. Craftsmanship and engineering analysis are two different things, and I wasn’t impressed with their engineering analyses. Next time you fly a 777, ask yourself if you would feel safe if the aircraft designers were installing modified wing tanks based on a, “Well, it hasn’t caused a crash yet” design philosophy.
Do what you want -- people are having no problems with the pulleys to date. However, don't assume that you will be free from problems if you add nitrous and other power adders. Torsional vibration is almost chaotic in nature, and it would be very easy to get the crank in a compromised situation with high revs and high power.
BTW, the crank pulley gets a person the most gains in 1st gear, and if you aren't going to hook up, you aren't going to take advantage of the gain. At terminal velocities, the apparent HP (as demonstrated by trap speeds) is not going to be helped in any large amount by the crank pulley. The aerodynamic forces are much greater at 100 MPH than the inertial forces, and the pulley is basically doing nothing. IOW, don't buy it for a top speed run.
04-08-2004, 06:15 AM
#85
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Originally posted by jgscott
Ever been to Commerece GA track. Not bad at all. About 1 15 mins from you.
Ever been to Commerece GA track. Not bad at all. About 1 15 mins from you.
In my experience, people have generally runs 1 - 2 tenths quicker at Silver Dollar which is southwest of Rome.
04-08-2004, 06:43 AM
#86
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ericl, damn you. you just made me reconsider running sc with the ur, and both are already (well almost) at my door! since i plan to run the car very conservatively (no more runs after runs, gentle in general) plus the fact that i will keep all this for another 1-2 years with only another 15k miles total, i highly doubt the pullies could cause something to blow.
though you make some valid points, so far any story i heard about engines failing required a MINIMUM of 10k miles. concuring with what allmotor suggested, these were cars that were highly tuned.
it seems that the pulleys have a long term effect, but to what extent is unknown.
for scalbert, it makes sense to not risk it because the last thing he needs is torsional vibration getting out of hand with a CLS pushing more than double (hopefully, cross fingers) a stock one.
but for me, i think the benefits may be worth it. they have working well for quite some time now, and actually the car feels smoother, although it didnt for the first month i had it on.
for those comtemplating the idea of cpulley, consider this:
follow allmotors advice on FI
Mileage
Do you really care about performance for a max. of 2/10ths in the 1/4?
though you make some valid points, so far any story i heard about engines failing required a MINIMUM of 10k miles. concuring with what allmotor suggested, these were cars that were highly tuned.
it seems that the pulleys have a long term effect, but to what extent is unknown.
for scalbert, it makes sense to not risk it because the last thing he needs is torsional vibration getting out of hand with a CLS pushing more than double (hopefully, cross fingers) a stock one.
but for me, i think the benefits may be worth it. they have working well for quite some time now, and actually the car feels smoother, although it didnt for the first month i had it on.
for those comtemplating the idea of cpulley, consider this:
follow allmotors advice on FI
Mileage
Do you really care about performance for a max. of 2/10ths in the 1/4?
04-08-2004, 06:50 AM
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i just realized i havent given congrats to matt, thought i did but i was mixed up with other posts.
matt, that time is off the hook! is there elevation at the track you were at? what was the humidity? at 80's temp you still have more room imo, in below 50 degrees climate you should pull closer to 13.1
matt, that time is off the hook! is there elevation at the track you were at? what was the humidity? at 80's temp you still have more room imo, in below 50 degrees climate you should pull closer to 13.1
04-08-2004, 08:08 AM
#88
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Re: Allmotor is giving you some good advice...
Originally posted by EricL
If you had an automatic, you’d probably be looking at trashing that first anyway (this point has been beaten to death).. If you owned a 6-speed and planned on keeping it for 100-200K miles (or longer), you would be doing a lot of guessing and speculating based on a few years of UR pulley use (at the most).
However, there are reams of information on this topic, and people who race might have different priorities than people who want to add a few HP (and a few MPG) with a seemingly “safe” mod. The problem is what happens over the long term, and if you have a 6-speed, and/or add FI (or increase HP in other ways), you need to look at the big picture.
You would need to do the tests that were mentioned very early on in the “pulley” threads, and this does not include oil analysis. At best, this will just tell you if you are going to have severe wear. You would need an FM discriminator to pick off the crank sensor timing data and see what happened before and after the UR pulley was installed. Of all the modifications, the engineering books suggest that the non-damped crank pulley is one of the most dangerous changes one can make (to be clear – moving from a damped pulley to a non-damped pulley). I don't know anyone here that got a FEA analysis of the crank modes from Honda/Acura. Finally, the UR people make a well machined product, but have a less than stellar record at being open and honest about possible problems. I got nothing but anecdotal information when I talked with them. Craftsmanship and engineering analysis are two different things, and I wasn’t impressed with their engineering analyses. Next time you fly a 777, ask yourself if you would feel safe if the aircraft designers were installing modified wing tanks based on a, “Well, it hasn’t caused a crash yet” design philosophy.
Do what you want -- people are having no problems with the pulleys to date. However, don't assume that you will be free from problems if you add nitrous and other power adders. Torsional vibration is almost chaotic in nature, and it would be very easy to get the crank in a compromised situation with high revs and high power.
BTW, the crank pulley gets a person the most gains in 1st gear, and if you aren't going to hook up, you aren't going to take advantage of the gain. At terminal velocities, the apparent HP (as demonstrated by trap speeds) is not going to be helped in any large amount by the crank pulley. The aerodynamic forces are much greater at 100 MPH than the inertial forces, and the pulley is basically doing nothing. IOW, don't buy it for a top speed run.
If you had an automatic, you’d probably be looking at trashing that first anyway (this point has been beaten to death).. If you owned a 6-speed and planned on keeping it for 100-200K miles (or longer), you would be doing a lot of guessing and speculating based on a few years of UR pulley use (at the most).
However, there are reams of information on this topic, and people who race might have different priorities than people who want to add a few HP (and a few MPG) with a seemingly “safe” mod. The problem is what happens over the long term, and if you have a 6-speed, and/or add FI (or increase HP in other ways), you need to look at the big picture.
You would need to do the tests that were mentioned very early on in the “pulley” threads, and this does not include oil analysis. At best, this will just tell you if you are going to have severe wear. You would need an FM discriminator to pick off the crank sensor timing data and see what happened before and after the UR pulley was installed. Of all the modifications, the engineering books suggest that the non-damped crank pulley is one of the most dangerous changes one can make (to be clear – moving from a damped pulley to a non-damped pulley). I don't know anyone here that got a FEA analysis of the crank modes from Honda/Acura. Finally, the UR people make a well machined product, but have a less than stellar record at being open and honest about possible problems. I got nothing but anecdotal information when I talked with them. Craftsmanship and engineering analysis are two different things, and I wasn’t impressed with their engineering analyses. Next time you fly a 777, ask yourself if you would feel safe if the aircraft designers were installing modified wing tanks based on a, “Well, it hasn’t caused a crash yet” design philosophy.
Do what you want -- people are having no problems with the pulleys to date. However, don't assume that you will be free from problems if you add nitrous and other power adders. Torsional vibration is almost chaotic in nature, and it would be very easy to get the crank in a compromised situation with high revs and high power.
BTW, the crank pulley gets a person the most gains in 1st gear, and if you aren't going to hook up, you aren't going to take advantage of the gain. At terminal velocities, the apparent HP (as demonstrated by trap speeds) is not going to be helped in any large amount by the crank pulley. The aerodynamic forces are much greater at 100 MPH than the inertial forces, and the pulley is basically doing nothing. IOW, don't buy it for a top speed run.
04-09-2004, 06:03 AM
#90
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
here are the slips and run descriptions.
run 1
i set my front tires to 27 psi. gate shifted. i didn't spray out of the hole. hit the juice in 2nd (too late), it was hard to shift then flip the switch. rev limiter on the 1-2 shift, good 2-3.
10:45 am, 72 degrees, 184 feet elev.
run 2
gate shifted. flipped the switch after i got traction in 1st. rev limiter on the 1-2 :o, good 2-3.
11:52 am, 75 degrees.
run 3
sport shift. ~ 2k TB like the previous runs. hit the switch when i got traction in 1st, good 2-3.
1:03 pm, 79 degrees.
run 4
gate shifted, sprayed out of the hole. slight tb, hit wot after i had traction, wheelspin/ wheelhop. rev limiter on the 1-2, good 2-3.
2:10 pm, 80 degrees.
run 5
gate shifted. sprayed out of the hole. slight tb, rolled into wot perfectly (hardly any wheelspin or hop). short shifted on the 1-2 <7000 rpm. redline 2-3.
3:02 pm, ~ 80 degrees.
notes - my n2o is run off of the tps signal, it only sprays at wot. on the last 2 runs i did a n2o assisted burn out. nothing big, just to clean off the tires. bottle warmer was on and line was purged before each run (out of the cowl and over the windshield).
run 1
i set my front tires to 27 psi. gate shifted. i didn't spray out of the hole. hit the juice in 2nd (too late), it was hard to shift then flip the switch. rev limiter on the 1-2 shift, good 2-3.
10:45 am, 72 degrees, 184 feet elev.
run 2
gate shifted. flipped the switch after i got traction in 1st. rev limiter on the 1-2 :o, good 2-3.
11:52 am, 75 degrees.
run 3
sport shift. ~ 2k TB like the previous runs. hit the switch when i got traction in 1st, good 2-3.
1:03 pm, 79 degrees.
run 4
gate shifted, sprayed out of the hole. slight tb, hit wot after i had traction, wheelspin/ wheelhop. rev limiter on the 1-2, good 2-3.
2:10 pm, 80 degrees.
run 5
gate shifted. sprayed out of the hole. slight tb, rolled into wot perfectly (hardly any wheelspin or hop). short shifted on the 1-2 <7000 rpm. redline 2-3.
3:02 pm, ~ 80 degrees.
notes - my n2o is run off of the tps signal, it only sprays at wot. on the last 2 runs i did a n2o assisted burn out. nothing big, just to clean off the tires. bottle warmer was on and line was purged before each run (out of the cowl and over the windshield
).
04-09-2004, 11:36 PM
#91
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wow matt, it seems like you hooked up in the right lane there, thats a killer 60 and a killer time, if your spray dont go till wot how did u not sprat until 2nd gear in that one run???
your best bet is to use SS so u dont have to worry about 1-2 cause the revs are climbing soo quick, if u run the car hard the ecu will adjust and make 7100-7150 rpm shifts, if u ask me thats better than banging the limiter
i give u props mang
your best bet is to use SS so u dont have to worry about 1-2 cause the revs are climbing soo quick, if u run the car hard the ecu will adjust and make 7100-7150 rpm shifts, if u ask me thats better than banging the limiter
i give u props mang
04-11-2004, 12:43 AM
#92
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Originally posted by allmotor_2000
I don't attribute a significant improvement to the UR Pulleys - not more than 0.5mph in the 1/4-mile.
I don't attribute a significant improvement to the UR Pulleys - not more than 0.5mph in the 1/4-mile.
Originally posted by EricL
...At terminal velocities, the apparent HP (as demonstrated by trap speeds) is not going to be helped in any large amount by the crank pulley. The aerodynamic forces are much greater at 100 MPH than the inertial forces, and the pulley is basically doing nothing. IOW, don't buy it for a top speed run.
...At terminal velocities, the apparent HP (as demonstrated by trap speeds) is not going to be helped in any large amount by the crank pulley. The aerodynamic forces are much greater at 100 MPH than the inertial forces, and the pulley is basically doing nothing. IOW, don't buy it for a top speed run.
You red lighted on every run!!
I am still very puzzled as to how your trap speed is 2 MPH higher than mine.
I have almost the same setup as you except for the purge, bottle heater (delivered on Friday & being installed next weekend) & the crank pulley (allmotor & EricL both say does very little).
Can anyone explain this? Could it be the higher bottle pressure because of the bottle heater, or is it possible for Matt's car to have a 2 mph advantage from the factory?
04-12-2004, 08:21 PM
#93
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
for some reason .000 was a perfect light that day. so i was actually sleeping at the line. 
i was just trying to learn the n2o, didn't care about the r/t.
i don't know about the trap speed difference. my car has always been able to put up really good numbers. even when i gateshifted i still did 104.7 mph.
maybe the heater will help.
i was just trying to learn the n2o, didn't care about the r/t.
i don't know about the trap speed difference. my car has always been able to put up really good numbers. even when i gateshifted i still did 104.7 mph.
maybe the heater will help.
04-12-2004, 09:07 PM
#94
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Originally posted by mattg
for some reason .000 was a perfect light that day. so i was actually sleeping at the line.
i was just trying to learn the n2o, didn't care about the r/t.
i don't know about the trap speed difference. my car has always been able to put up really good numbers. even when i gateshifted i still did 104.7 mph.
maybe the heater will help.
for some reason .000 was a perfect light that day. so i was actually sleeping at the line.
i was just trying to learn the n2o, didn't care about the r/t.
i don't know about the trap speed difference. my car has always been able to put up really good numbers. even when i gateshifted i still did 104.7 mph.
maybe the heater will help.
04-13-2004, 05:35 AM
#96
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally posted by mattg
even when i used sport shift i still did 104.7 mph.
even when i used sport shift i still did 104.7 mph.
04-13-2004, 05:39 AM
#97
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally posted by darrinb
if your spray dont go till wot how did u not sprat until 2nd gear in that one run???
if your spray dont go till wot how did u not sprat until 2nd gear in that one run???
04-16-2004, 04:25 PM
#98
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fastvtechcl
I think i saw u at the Rock one time and i was wonderin what all u got done to ur car. I got a 98 3.0. Im only runnin a mid 14 right now which is not that bad.
04-20-2004, 08:11 AM
#99
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so wait matt, you actually did better with an earlier shift from 1>2?
i never tried anything but gate shift, and i always would take it to just below rev limiter.
i never tried anything but gate shift, and i always would take it to just below rev limiter.
04-21-2004, 04:19 AM
#100
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
the launch was the key to the quick run, that and not hitting the rev limiter. :o
but yeah, i short shifted on the 1-2 shift. i had to leave after that run so i didn't get to see what a perfect 7100 rpm shift would do. next time i'll get more runs. usually i get ~ 10. this last time i only got 5.
but yeah, i short shifted on the 1-2 shift. i had to leave after that run so i didn't get to see what a perfect 7100 rpm shift would do. next time i'll get more runs. usually i get ~ 10. this last time i only got 5.
06-15-2004, 04:08 AM
#101
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by EricL
Nice going. 
BTW, I need your VIN so I can collect my $100 rat-out-fee from Acura's tranny rebuild dept. :sneaky: :devil:
:
BTW, I need your VIN so I can collect my $100 rat-out-fee from Acura's tranny rebuild dept. :sneaky: :devil:
:
07-03-2004, 01:09 PM
#102
Safety Car
Originally Posted by want_updohg?
:crystalball:
ask allmotor. his car had similar numbers if i remember correctly. more now that i think about it.
the same maybe? 13.0~13.5 depending on weather, traction etc.
ask allmotor. his car had similar numbers if i remember correctly. more now that i think about it.
the same maybe? 13.0~13.5 depending on weather, traction etc.
!!!
07-22-2004, 11:23 PM
#103
TQ > MPG
Dont mean to go OT, but someone posted the tlink to this dyno:
Is it generally agreed that the pulley is worth 10whp on a stock 6 speed? And has anyone other than Allmotor had issues with it?
Is it generally agreed that the pulley is worth 10whp on a stock 6 speed? And has anyone other than Allmotor had issues with it?
07-25-2004, 06:30 PM
#104
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
the UR pulley set? i would guess those would be the gains.
i don't think allmotor had issues w/ the UR pulleys. he did have problems w/ the CT clutch though.
i don't think allmotor had issues w/ the UR pulleys. he did have problems w/ the CT clutch though.
