09 TL SH AWD Intake.........IMRC??? I dont think soooooo
The 09 TL SH AWD intake manifold uses a stepper motor that has position feedback for variable opening angles determined by the ECU.
The 03 Cl-S has a motor that actuates a cable that rotates a spring loaded shaft......power on, motor turns and valve opens, power off.....valve snaps shut and forces motor back to initial position by the force of the spring. It is impossible for the motor on/off controller of our 2nd gen cars to actuate the stepper motor in the 09 IMRC unit. I have a brand new intake assy sitting on my desk next to me and I wanted to verify this. I assumed that it would open when given 12V to the +/- leads of the motor. I also assumed that it would not close when the power was taken away. Results: As I assumed, the valve opens when given 12v and then stays open. The motor is constantly trying to move the valve as long as it has power as well. This will likely fry the motor after extended use. What this means.......All those who wired up their new 09 manifolds with their 2nd gen wiring have done nothing more than opened the valve the first time their IMRC was activated and it has been stuck open ever since. I am just sharing my results to clear up any confusion out there. I have been searching for months slowly getting everything for my swap and have found many cases of people wiring up their +/- to the 09 manifold....This didnt make any sense to me and I have been confused about it until I just got the parts in my hands today. Just to clarify..... 2nd gen cl-s or tl-s with 09 Manifold = IMRC WILL NOT WORK. Might as well remove it before you install it as I have done. Just trying to clear up any confusion for someone else in the future... :2cents: |
That's interesting. I am just going to leave mine closed the first couple of weeks because I would really like some low end power. Although I figure I will end up leaving it open all the time fore the power up top.
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Happen to know the results in using the 2009 RL's magnesium manifold and our ability to have the butterfly valve function as it should?
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Oh that's a bummer.
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You should take it to boomslang and see what can be done.
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Originally Posted by Karanx7
(Post 14125155)
Oh that's a bummer.
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:wtfsick::wtfsick::rippedoff:
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https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...728942&page=24
One of the posters mentioned his IRMC not working as well after install. One suggestion was an RPM activation switch and a tune. It looks like he was referring to a type-s manifold to Tl-P swap though. |
It shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Just need some custom switch I imagine.
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Originally Posted by Karanx7
(Post 14126080)
It shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Just need some custom switch I imagine.
I guess you could do it with some relays and timers. It takes about 1 second to open the butterfly. You need a polarity ( + and - ) switching relay.....or 2 relays that work simultaneously You need 2 timers wire up the +/- of the 09 IMRC to the relays When the stock IMRC controller turns on, it actuates the relay and sends 12 v to the 09 actuator. The actuator cannot handle constant 12v the whole time it is open...it needs to open and then cut the power. This is where the timer comes in. The timer cuts the power after 1 second and the butterfly stays open. When the stock IMRC controller kills the power, the relay switches the polarity for 1 second and the butterfly is closed. Not impossible, but need to source electrical parts which I have no expertise with.... No telling if the servo motor will be happy in the long run with this either though..... |
If you just take the butterflies out, then problem solved, no? You may lose a bit of low end (under 4K), but the top end gains are worth it. I have this manifold gasket matched to my polished runners, and a bored 3.7 TB as well...I gained 15whp peak and 6wtq. The power everywhere was increased. It's a great mod. To further back it up, I gained almost 2mph in the 1/4. I trapped 102 prior to the install and just this past weekend was trapping 103.5-103.9.
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Originally Posted by Sonnick
(Post 14126267)
If you just take the butterflies out, then problem solved, no? You may lose a bit of low end (under 4K), but the top end gains are worth it. I have this manifold gasket matched to my polished runners, and a bored 3.7 TB as well...I gained 15whp peak and 6wtq. The power everywhere was increased. It's a great mod. To further back it up, I gained almost 2mph in the 1/4. I trapped 102 prior to the install and just this past weekend was trapping 103.5-103.9.
I bet the HP gains from removing the butterflies on the 09 manifold are negligible, however I bet the torque loss from 2000-4000 is quite substantial....(15+ wtq).... There is no sacrifice if you can get them to operate normally, only gains across the board. :thumbsup: |
If you want the intake without the butterflies, then just get a top plate from the accord without butterflies at all. See part #2 part number 17116-R70-A00
http://www.thehondapartsstore.com/he...0801_e0301.png |
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I figured the electronic iirc would be an upgrade to our manifolds. Looks like we will have to band together and dicover a fix asap :toocool:
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Considering our ECU is tuned for a single open or closed intake butterfly valve and not a variable open, just wire it up to open up and close like our stock one. Also are you sure its a motor and not an actuator? If its an actuator constant voltage wont hurt them. They are designed to operate like that. Also the spring on our intakes doesnt push or force the motor back, its cable operated and the cable doesnt push, just pulls. :2cents:
Also I dont have the 09 manifold to play with but im sure it could be possible to modify it to use our cable system by removing the 09 unit? |
Originally Posted by fsttyms1
(Post 14139858)
Considering our ECU is tuned for a single open or closed intake butterfly valve and not a variable open, just wire it up to open up and close like our stock one. Also are you sure its a motor and not an actuator? If its an actuator constant voltage wont hurt them. They are designed to operate like that. Also the spring on our intakes doesnt push or force the motor back, its cable operated and the cable doesnt push, just pulls. :2cents:
Also I dont have the 09 manifold to play with but im sure it could be possible to modify it to use our cable system by removing the 09 unit? |
Easier said then done I'm sure. How would one go about wiring it up in a way that it would work with our ecu?
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Originally Posted by fsttyms1
(Post 14139858)
Considering our ECU is tuned for a single open or closed intake butterfly valve and not a variable open, just wire it up to open up and close like our stock one. Also are you sure its a motor and not an actuator? If its an actuator constant voltage wont hurt them. They are designed to operate like that. Also the spring on our intakes doesnt push or force the motor back, its cable operated and the cable doesnt push, just pulls. :2cents:
Also I dont have the 09 manifold to play with but im sure it could be possible to modify it to use our cable system by removing the 09 unit? I also looked at adapting our cable/spring bits to the end of the butterfly valve, but it was not even close to being able to swap. The motor housing is what makes the vacuum seal, the shaft end is different, etc.... Sure with enough time, $$, and trial and error, anything is possible, but you cant just swap the 09 motor for the 01-03 spring/cable assy. |
Originally Posted by johndo18
(Post 14144930)
Easier said then done I'm sure. How would one go about wiring it up in a way that it would work with our ecu?
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This is interesting. I felt the butterflies opening and closing (hand on the intake manifold lid, rev engine). There was a noticeable click from them as well.
What was the 12v source? |
Originally Posted by Sonnick
(Post 14126267)
If you just take the butterflies out, then problem solved, no? You may lose a bit of low end (under 4K), but the top end gains are worth it. I have this manifold gasket matched to my polished runners, and a bored 3.7 TB as well...I gained 15whp peak and 6wtq. The power everywhere was increased. It's a great mod. To further back it up, I gained almost 2mph in the 1/4. I trapped 102 prior to the install and just this past weekend was trapping 103.5-103.9.
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Originally Posted by civicdrivr
(Post 14161888)
This is interesting. I felt the butterflies opening and closing (hand on the intake manifold lid, rev engine). There was a noticeable click from them as well.
What was the 12v source? Pop your cover off and take a look at the valve position. Should be closed if it were functioning properly. Should only take 5 minutes to check. Let us know what you find. :wish: |
Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll
(Post 14164796)
I used a battery as a 12v source.
Pop your cover off and take a look at the valve position. Should be closed if it were functioning properly. Should only take 5 minutes to check. Let us know what you find. :wish: |
Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll
(Post 14164796)
I used a battery as a 12v source.
Pop your cover off and take a look at the valve position. Should be closed if it were functioning properly. Should only take 5 minutes to check. Let us know what you find. :wish: |
So the 09 tl sh awd intake manifold is a good mod for cl-s and tl-s 2nd gen or no?
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Originally Posted by Rozay52410
(Post 14170790)
So the 09 tl sh awd intake manifold is a good mod for cl-s and tl-s 2nd gen or no?
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Are the 07+ mdx the same intake manifold? Since there 3.7L v6?
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Nope, different part number and look different in the pars catalog. I haven't seen one in person to say what the exact differences are...
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So I couldn't mod it to my tl type s 2nd gen?
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Originally Posted by Rozay52410
(Post 14171413)
So I couldn't mod it to my tl type s 2nd gen?
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lol thanks alot man
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Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll
(Post 14124289)
The 09 TL SH AWD intake manifold uses a stepper motor that has position feedback for variable opening angles determined by the ECU.
It is impossible for the motor on/off controller of our 2nd gen cars to actuate the stepper motor in the 09 IMRC unit. I have a brand new intake assy sitting on my desk next to me and I wanted to verify this. I assumed that it would open when given 12V to the +/- leads of the motor. I also assumed that it would not close when the power was taken away. What this means.......All those who wired up their new 09 manifolds with their 2nd gen wiring have done nothing more than opened the valve the first time their IMRC was activated and it has been stuck open ever since. : if its not either the poster is wrong or your motor isnt working at all ...next test if butterfly is closed ...rev engine to above 3800 and hold ...while doing so disconnect harness to IMRC motor ...turn off engine remove plate if butterfly is still in the closed postion either poster is wrong or your intake mani motor is not opperating ... next text manually open butterfly if poster is correct it should want to stay in whtever postion you rotate it to ... replace cover ...rev engine to above 3800 ...pull cover if butterfly is still open your intake motor is not working if closed poster is wrong ... |
3.7 im
Is there anyway to remove the flap inside the manifold, or to manually leave it open so that there is not constant power to the acutuator. And if so if the flap is always open are there any consequences like check engine lights or huge loss of power? Please send any imput thank you guys
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The flap open or closed resembles the characteristics of short and long runners under different ranges in the power band. (long for low end, short for top end). Keeping it open will in turn act as if the manifold is using short runners therefore you will lose low end but see gains in the top end.
So to answer the question, would there be a power loss. Well, under these circumstances (replacing your stock manifold for this one) you would only see a gain throughout the whole power band simply because this manifold overall as far as i recall, holds more air. So the question for everyone isn't, will it make power. That's already been answered, and it will across the whole power band over a pnp'd cls manifold. The question on people's mind is: how much power are we not seeing in the low end without the use of this actuator as it was intended for. Correct me if I'm mistaken fellas. |
Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll
(Post 14124289)
The 09 TL SH AWD intake manifold uses a stepper motor that has position feedback for variable opening angles determined by the ECU.
The 03 Cl-S has a motor that actuates a cable that rotates a spring loaded shaft......power on, motor turns and valve opens, power off.....valve snaps shut and forces motor back to initial position by the force of the spring. It is impossible for the motor on/off controller of our 2nd gen cars to actuate the stepper motor in the 09 IMRC unit. I have a brand new intake assy sitting on my desk next to me and I wanted to verify this. I assumed that it would open when given 12V to the +/- leads of the motor. I also assumed that it would not close when the power was taken away. Results: As I assumed, the valve opens when given 12v and then stays open. The motor is constantly trying to move the valve as long as it has power as well. This will likely fry the motor after extended use. What this means.......All those who wired up their new 09 manifolds with their 2nd gen wiring have done nothing more than opened the valve the first time their IMRC was activated and it has been stuck open ever since. I am just sharing my results to clear up any confusion out there. I have been searching for months slowly getting everything for my swap and have found many cases of people wiring up their +/- to the 09 manifold....This didnt make any sense to me and I have been confused about it until I just got the parts in my hands today. Just to clarify..... 2nd gen cl-s or tl-s with 09 Manifold = IMRC WILL NOT WORK. Might as well remove it before you install it as I have done. Just trying to clear up any confusion for someone else in the future... :2cents: |
Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai
(Post 14470005)
the other obvious choice is to make an adapter so that the CLS ECU controls the butterfly open or closed. Should not be too terribly difficult to make an adapter
Yes please someone listen to him and make one up.:yes::no: We need more options for bolt on power for this car before the CL is forgotten about |
Before the CL is forgotten about?
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Originally Posted by Dr. Jekyll
(Post 14171452)
I'm sure you could, but there is no proven benefit to doing so. The MDX's typically are designed to have more lower end torque. You might end up with a torquier engine, but your top end will suffer. Spend the coin on what's proven, unless you want to be everyone's lab rat and dyno your car stock, then install the mdx mani, and then re-dyno all within a few hours....:wish:
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