****How good is powershifting?****
05-01-2001 | 01:13 PM
#41
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TL_Type_S:
I don't see why "name-calling" or "beating up people" makes anyone's bankroll bigger, their car faster, or their self more civilized and more superior. I admire the M3, as I had the chance to drive w/ Sins this weekend, but even-still, a car is several pieces of metal built together -- I could give a rats ass when I have to rate the most meaningful things in my life. Even being an enthusiast, myself -- a car is just a car.
I've noticed that MOST CL Type S owners that post frequently on this board will post legitimate topics concerning performance differences when adding a new mod to their cars. However, I notice that "trolls" will post topics bashing the Type S and claiming that a discussion among Acura owners about performance is some how an indication of the CL Type S's superiority over all other cars in existance. Jesus people -- I think some people on this forum have a new type of medical disorder called "e.inferiority-complex," most likely due to the Internet boom of the two years past.
True arguments don't end in: I'm gunna kick your ass -- they end in two civil, sane parties parting having intellectually exercised their minds and professed their deep beliefs. Perhaps they've been enlightened as a result. Just cuz someone disputes something -- perhaps you should post a rebuttal, rather than a retaliation. Some of the coolest, most intelligent people I've known in the past and know today drive cars that don't cost more than $20K -- maybe it's different for you all, but then again, who am I?? You're all better than me.
</font>
I don't see why "name-calling" or "beating up people" makes anyone's bankroll bigger, their car faster, or their self more civilized and more superior. I admire the M3, as I had the chance to drive w/ Sins this weekend, but even-still, a car is several pieces of metal built together -- I could give a rats ass when I have to rate the most meaningful things in my life. Even being an enthusiast, myself -- a car is just a car.
I've noticed that MOST CL Type S owners that post frequently on this board will post legitimate topics concerning performance differences when adding a new mod to their cars. However, I notice that "trolls" will post topics bashing the Type S and claiming that a discussion among Acura owners about performance is some how an indication of the CL Type S's superiority over all other cars in existance. Jesus people -- I think some people on this forum have a new type of medical disorder called "e.inferiority-complex," most likely due to the Internet boom of the two years past.
True arguments don't end in: I'm gunna kick your ass -- they end in two civil, sane parties parting having intellectually exercised their minds and professed their deep beliefs. Perhaps they've been enlightened as a result. Just cuz someone disputes something -- perhaps you should post a rebuttal, rather than a retaliation. Some of the coolest, most intelligent people I've known in the past and know today drive cars that don't cost more than $20K -- maybe it's different for you all, but then again, who am I?? You're all better than me.
</font>
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05-01-2001 | 01:54 PM
#42
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From: Washington DC (NOVA)
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TL_Type_S:
I don't see why "name-calling" or "beating up people" makes anyone's bankroll bigger, their car faster, or their self more civilized and more superior. I admire the M3, as I had the chance to drive w/ Sins this weekend, but even-still, a car is several pieces of metal built together -- I could give a rats ass when I have to rate the most meaningful things in my life. Even being an enthusiast, myself -- a car is just a car.
I've noticed that MOST CL Type S owners that post frequently on this board will post legitimate topics concerning performance differences when adding a new mod to their cars. However, I notice that "trolls" will post topics bashing the Type S and claiming that a discussion among Acura owners about performance is some how an indication of the CL Type S's superiority over all other cars in existance. Jesus people -- I think some people on this forum have a new type of medical disorder called "e.inferiority-complex," most likely due to the Internet boom of the two years past.
True arguments don't end in: I'm gunna kick your ass -- they end in two civil, sane parties parting having intellectually exercised their minds and professed their deep beliefs. Perhaps they've been enlightened as a result. Just cuz someone disputes something -- perhaps you should post a rebuttal, rather than a retaliation. Some of the coolest, most intelligent people I've known in the past and know today drive cars that don't cost more than $20K -- maybe it's different for you all, but then again, who am I?? You're all better than me.
</font>
I don't see why "name-calling" or "beating up people" makes anyone's bankroll bigger, their car faster, or their self more civilized and more superior. I admire the M3, as I had the chance to drive w/ Sins this weekend, but even-still, a car is several pieces of metal built together -- I could give a rats ass when I have to rate the most meaningful things in my life. Even being an enthusiast, myself -- a car is just a car.
I've noticed that MOST CL Type S owners that post frequently on this board will post legitimate topics concerning performance differences when adding a new mod to their cars. However, I notice that "trolls" will post topics bashing the Type S and claiming that a discussion among Acura owners about performance is some how an indication of the CL Type S's superiority over all other cars in existance. Jesus people -- I think some people on this forum have a new type of medical disorder called "e.inferiority-complex," most likely due to the Internet boom of the two years past.
True arguments don't end in: I'm gunna kick your ass -- they end in two civil, sane parties parting having intellectually exercised their minds and professed their deep beliefs. Perhaps they've been enlightened as a result. Just cuz someone disputes something -- perhaps you should post a rebuttal, rather than a retaliation. Some of the coolest, most intelligent people I've known in the past and know today drive cars that don't cost more than $20K -- maybe it's different for you all, but then again, who am I?? You're all better than me.
</font>
No. You are better than most of us. Great post, I could not agree more. Thanks.
Your post is actually part of my main point in many threads. Acura CL/CLS owners have proven that they have no superiority problem. Otherwise they would have bought the 330Ci with the stick to claim their car has the name, the RWD and the 0-60 in 6.1 secs. No. I buy value and no one can beat me to that. When the complexic guys realize what value is they might start getting some of our points to that.
Sorry but that is how I feel it is.
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Gabriel
CL Type S
05-01-2001 | 05:27 PM
#44
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From: Chicago, Illinois
Its in Buffalo Grove. Its the Shell gas station @ Arlington Heights Rd. & 83.
Gimme a call if you can (hopefully you still got my #). We will meet on Saturday night. I'll be the first there with my M3 @ 10pm so come at 10 or a little later.
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Gimme a call if you can (hopefully you still got my #). We will meet on Saturday night. I'll be the first there with my M3 @ 10pm so come at 10 or a little later.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TL_Type_S:
Sins --
I'll be there -- email me when and where. Oh yeah, and I'm gunna hook up a 300 shot of NOS in the Type S before i come! LOL
</font>
Sins --
I'll be there -- email me when and where. Oh yeah, and I'm gunna hook up a 300 shot of NOS in the Type S before i come! LOL
</font>
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05-01-2001 | 09:20 PM
#45
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From: Somewhere between here and there, yet neither.
<sniff><sniff> the testosterone is boiling over here....
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------------------
2001 Cl-S Black on Black with Navigation
Black Tint all around (15%~45%)
Weapon-R Dragon Filter
Weapon-R Coil-Overs
Koni Adjustable Struts
Comptech Sway Bars
Comptech Headers (hehehe...I got something for you drchang!!)
05-01-2001 | 09:45 PM
#46
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by moomaster_99:
<sniff><sniff> the testosterone is boiling over here....
</font>
<sniff><sniff> the testosterone is boiling over here....
</font>
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05-01-2001 | 10:26 PM
#47
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From: New York
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Xephyr2K:
M3Sins,
In regard to your question the dangers of PowerShift the M3 are pretty numerous... Among them is the problem with overrevving the E36 engine as a result of a missed shift.. many of these engines suffer from bent valves as a result of over-revving...what happens is that the valves can, and do get mildly bent in some instances and the engine litterally hammers them straight again so they will continue to run true in the valve guides. When pulled out of the head, the valves are burnt on the exhaust edge of the valve (they are still bent just enough so they cannot rotate normally in the head). A normal, unbent valve will not have a burn area on it as it is continually rotating. By and far the danger is more with over revving then the actual power-shift... the sudden torque to the gear box/rear axle is obviously not good for longevity but will really take a toll if you make a habit of it... sheering some connecting pins and linkages is more of an annoyance and pain then anything else.... just watch out for the over revv and dont make a habit of it...
Chris
</font>
M3Sins,
In regard to your question the dangers of PowerShift the M3 are pretty numerous... Among them is the problem with overrevving the E36 engine as a result of a missed shift.. many of these engines suffer from bent valves as a result of over-revving...what happens is that the valves can, and do get mildly bent in some instances and the engine litterally hammers them straight again so they will continue to run true in the valve guides. When pulled out of the head, the valves are burnt on the exhaust edge of the valve (they are still bent just enough so they cannot rotate normally in the head). A normal, unbent valve will not have a burn area on it as it is continually rotating. By and far the danger is more with over revving then the actual power-shift... the sudden torque to the gear box/rear axle is obviously not good for longevity but will really take a toll if you make a habit of it... sheering some connecting pins and linkages is more of an annoyance and pain then anything else.... just watch out for the over revv and dont make a habit of it...
Chris
</font>
Since the topic of discussion is once again the M3, let me help you out.
First of all, Chris, if you knew anything about the M3, you would know that the M3 has a rev limiter. I'm hoping that you know what a "rev limiter" actually does, but anyway.....
The rev limiter on the M3 will prevent ANY AND ALL engine damage that can be caused by an over-rev condition. There is 1 exception to that rule, which I will get into in a moment. It is virtually impossible to bend valves by missing a shift or powershifting for that matter.
You may have heard of the problems of some guys grenading their engines in the M3. How so, you ask, if the M3 has a rev limiter?
Simple. The short answer is this: downshifting. See, the M3 is one of the few cars in the world that will let you shift into 1st gear at any speed without protest. More than a few M3 drivers have inadvertantly downshifted from 4th to 1st (thinking they were in 3rd though), let out the clutch, and seriously over-revved their engines and caused serious damage.
You see, even with a rev-limiter, it is impossible to protect the engine when you "mechanically" over-rev it. This is true in any car, BMW or not.
I'm not sure why BMW decided to put such strong synchros in their manual tranny, but they did......
M3Sins,
I have personally witnessed a stock M3 run 13.6 (powershifting) at the track. It wasn't my car, but never-the-less, I saw it with my own eyes. That's only 1/10 slower than you were hoping to run, so I'd say that it is not out of the question.
Don't let some of these fools here bother you about this. Funny thing is that the magazine racers here claim that they can run mid 14's stock, even though the mags have the car pegged as a car that runs around 15.0 on average. But as soon as you even mention running 1/2 sec better than most mag times for the M3, they all jump your sack. LOL.
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dead CL-S and M3
[This message has been edited by Tom2 (edited 05-01-2001).]
05-01-2001 | 10:33 PM
#48
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From: New York
M3Sins,
By the way, you're asking this question on the wrong board.
Most of the people here have no clue about the M3. Not to mention the fact that many have no clue about getting performance out of a manual tranny.
At this point, all these CL-S owners are driving automatics. See the point?
You should try bimmer.org or bimmerforums.com
FYI--
Powershifting your car can cause serious damage to your transmission. Mainly, your synchros. Will you destroy it right away? No. How long will it take to damage it? Depends on a lot of things. I've powershifted all of my past manual tranny cars, without doing any serious damage. Actually, I owned a 5.0L Mustang that I bought brand new in the late 80's and I powershifted that car for about 3 years (roughly 40K miles) before I had to get tranny work done. And it was covered under warranty! Gotta love Fords extended service warranty!
So my advice to you is this-- If you want to powershift the M3, then okay, powershift it. Just don't make a habit of doing it all the time. If you do it sparingly, you should be okay.... Repairing an M3 tranny is big bucks..... Keep that in mind. Personally, I only powershift mine during a race- and only if I HAVE TO POWERSHIFT TO WIN. Otherwise, I'll just shift normally.
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dead CL-S and M3
[This message has been edited by Tom2 (edited 05-01-2001).]
By the way, you're asking this question on the wrong board.
Most of the people here have no clue about the M3. Not to mention the fact that many have no clue about getting performance out of a manual tranny.
At this point, all these CL-S owners are driving automatics. See the point?
You should try bimmer.org or bimmerforums.com
FYI--
Powershifting your car can cause serious damage to your transmission. Mainly, your synchros. Will you destroy it right away? No. How long will it take to damage it? Depends on a lot of things. I've powershifted all of my past manual tranny cars, without doing any serious damage. Actually, I owned a 5.0L Mustang that I bought brand new in the late 80's and I powershifted that car for about 3 years (roughly 40K miles) before I had to get tranny work done. And it was covered under warranty! Gotta love Fords extended service warranty!
So my advice to you is this-- If you want to powershift the M3, then okay, powershift it. Just don't make a habit of doing it all the time. If you do it sparingly, you should be okay.... Repairing an M3 tranny is big bucks..... Keep that in mind. Personally, I only powershift mine during a race- and only if I HAVE TO POWERSHIFT TO WIN. Otherwise, I'll just shift normally.
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dead CL-S and M3
[This message has been edited by Tom2 (edited 05-01-2001).]
05-02-2001 | 12:10 AM
#49
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
M3Sins,
By the way, you're asking this question on the wrong board.
Most of the people here have no clue about the M3. Not to mention the fact that many have no clue about getting performance out of a manual tranny.
At this point, all these CL-S owners are driving automatics. See the point?
You should try bimmer.org or bimmerforums.com
FYI--
Powershifting your car can cause serious damage to your transmission. Mainly, your synchros. Will you destroy it right away? No. How long will it take to damage it? Depends on a lot of things. I've powershifted all of my past manual tranny cars, without doing any serious damage. Actually, I owned a 5.0L Mustang that I bought brand new in the late 80's and I powershifted that car for about 3 years (roughly 40K miles) before I had to get tranny work done. And it was covered under warranty! Gotta love Fords extended service warranty!
So my advice to you is this-- If you want to powershift the M3, then okay, powershift it. Just don't make a habit of doing it all the time. If you do it sparingly, you should be okay.... Repairing an M3 tranny is big bucks..... Keep that in mind. Personally, I only powershift mine during a race- and only if I HAVE TO POWERSHIFT TO WIN. Otherwise, I'll just shift normally.</font>
M3Sins,
By the way, you're asking this question on the wrong board.
Most of the people here have no clue about the M3. Not to mention the fact that many have no clue about getting performance out of a manual tranny.
At this point, all these CL-S owners are driving automatics. See the point?
You should try bimmer.org or bimmerforums.com
FYI--
Powershifting your car can cause serious damage to your transmission. Mainly, your synchros. Will you destroy it right away? No. How long will it take to damage it? Depends on a lot of things. I've powershifted all of my past manual tranny cars, without doing any serious damage. Actually, I owned a 5.0L Mustang that I bought brand new in the late 80's and I powershifted that car for about 3 years (roughly 40K miles) before I had to get tranny work done. And it was covered under warranty! Gotta love Fords extended service warranty!
So my advice to you is this-- If you want to powershift the M3, then okay, powershift it. Just don't make a habit of doing it all the time. If you do it sparingly, you should be okay.... Repairing an M3 tranny is big bucks..... Keep that in mind. Personally, I only powershift mine during a race- and only if I HAVE TO POWERSHIFT TO WIN. Otherwise, I'll just shift normally.</font>
Also, since your good with M3s, whats the ideal RPM to take off at from the line?
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05-02-2001 | 12:20 AM
#50
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From: Ninth Gate & So Cal
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
I'm not sure why BMW decided to put such strong synchros in their manual tranny, but they did......
</font>
I'm not sure why BMW decided to put such strong synchros in their manual tranny, but they did......
</font>
The early transmissions had Porsche style synchros and they didn't hold up well. About every car I would get into had no 1-2 synchro left after a few thousand miles.
Then there were the later 2002s with equably shitty synchros -- everyone complained and whined about how they didn't hold up and the Japanese stuff was so much easier to use.
Then they finally came out with the 320 box and it had a great set of synchros (I actually put a bunch of the 320 4 and 5 speeds in 2002s). They worked and worked.
So, this same BMW that used to run Aluminum rockers on mild-steel shafts, also used to make paper-weight synchros. So, they got bashed, and decided to make super strong ones. It seemed like most of the following boxes had stronger and stronger synchros -- and the complaining stopped.
At least the have ears....
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05-02-2001 | 02:24 AM
#51
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I still wouldn't powershift it if it was my car. You drive this car everyday, right? Is 1/10th worth messing up your tranny? Since the M3 has a rev limiter, you can speed shift (don't take your foot off the gas between shifts) without a problem. Also, you should never slam the shifter into the next gear. It will actually make the gear change slower. Try to be as smooth as possible.
05-02-2001 | 03:10 AM
#52
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by frederix:
I still wouldn't powershift it if it was my car. You drive this car everyday, right? Is 1/10th worth messing up your tranny? Since the M3 has a rev limiter, you can speed shift (don't take your foot off the gas between shifts) without a problem. Also, you should never slam the shifter into the next gear. It will actually make the gear change slower. Try to be as smooth as possible.</font>
I still wouldn't powershift it if it was my car. You drive this car everyday, right? Is 1/10th worth messing up your tranny? Since the M3 has a rev limiter, you can speed shift (don't take your foot off the gas between shifts) without a problem. Also, you should never slam the shifter into the next gear. It will actually make the gear change slower. Try to be as smooth as possible.</font>
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05-02-2001 | 03:37 PM
#53
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From: New York
M3Sins,
I asked soopa to hook me up with this pic as my avatar. Have you seen it before? Pretty cool, but I wish it had the ///M Contour rims that my car has....
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99 M3
dead CL-S
I asked soopa to hook me up with this pic as my avatar. Have you seen it before? Pretty cool, but I wish it had the ///M Contour rims that my car has....
------------------
99 M3
dead CL-S
05-02-2001 | 03:47 PM
#54
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Yeah I sent him about 3 emails to make that my avatar!!!! He hasn't done so. I got an email back from one of the moderators saying to email avatars@acura-cl.com and still don't have it!!!
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tom2:
M3Sins,
I asked soopa to hook me up with this pic as my avatar. Have you seen it before? Pretty cool, but I wish it had the ///M Contour rims that my car has....
</font>
M3Sins,
I asked soopa to hook me up with this pic as my avatar. Have you seen it before? Pretty cool, but I wish it had the ///M Contour rims that my car has....
</font>
------------------
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