Bass Mechanic

tried to race me from 3 stoplights it was close for all of first gear. but when i got to second i was pulling away significantly. by 3rd i had at least 2 cars on him.
we stopped in a lot and chatted. he gave me good props. his car had IHE on it and a couple other small bolt ons.
needless to say he was rather impressed. i also think one of the reasons my car was that much faster is the fact i have an unexplicable ability to shift extreemly fast with the TSX. the double conical syncros of the 6MT allow shifts so fast that i do full throttle shifts all the time when racing and i never missed a gear yet.
they commented how incredible it sounded scratching 2nd and 3rd gears. they thought i had an automatic because they never heard the engine free spin between gears.

anyway i dont usually race people but since the GSR was lowered and looked like a couple kids i figured it might be a good run.

based on previous experience and when i had the prelude type Sh i raced an integra several years back in that car and beat it about the same.
based on what i know about the prelude by comparason i wouldnt be suprised if the TSX and my old Lude were about neck and neck. i know i ran a 15.1 at sealevel totally stock. i wonder what the TSX would do.
i live at 6500 feet above sealevel and the best times i could get with my lude here was a whopping 16.4 sec 1/4

PixelHarmony

Nice! but try racing a Type-R, my friend pulled alot more of me off the line. That'll be a different race

Bass Mechanic

you know my old 2001 Acura TL got a change to race a type R once and even with IHE i beat him a couple times. i ran into the guy at a party about a week later and he thought i had a type S. unfortunatly the TL didnt have a type S option in 2001. in his case though i suspect that his mods actually made his car slower than stock.
the same thing happend to a friend of mine with a 2001 Lude. he had a mugen exhaust, DC ceramic coated headers and a type S intake.
when he raced his lude againce a totally stock lude of the same year his car was actually slower. they even switched cars and same results, no matter who drove the car it was still slower than the stock car.
the ITR is a great car dont get me wrong. but ive been in both and im sorry to say that an ITR isn't that much faster than a GSR in stock form.
2 car lengths in the 1/4 equates to about .4-.5 secs different at these speeds that our cars finish the 1/4 with. i had at least 2 cars on the GSR by third. my guess an ITR would be probly about even with me. you would need a 1/4 drag strip and a light to be able to tell what car is actually faster. i think the R would be by a couple tenths.

MQMH_03

how can performance mods made a car slower than stock? unless he had a big system and heavy rims?...

cmf

You can actually read through a lot of articles in magazines where they do testing, and a combination of mods CAN reduce your horse power. You actually need to do more research than finding out what numbers were put out by a dyno given on each specific mod. Some don't work well together. Usually if you stick w/ one company, you will see gains, however mixing and matching can actually reduce your final numbers.

PixelHarmony

hmm interesting. He just has a AEM CAI and a Tabanbe RM Exhuast. I guess his car is also faster since he has no backseats or spare (I forgot to mention that).

Bass Mechanic

i think one of the reasons some mods slow the car down is because you have to consider the fact that just because a stock exhaust is smaller than aftermarket doesnt mean it robs power. it actually increases torque. and much more than you think goes into building an exhaust. many people get peak HP with an exhause and other bolt ons. but when you take away the torque you have to wait longer to bennifit from the high end power.
for the same reasons the TSX doesnt feel as fast as it is because the torque curve is flat. old VTEC engines build or make more HP when the RPM's come up. the iVTEC engines make better use of low end torque early on.

MQMH_03

point well made Bass Mechanic!

ks112

how do you do a full throttle shift?? do you leave the gas peddal pinned and then press the clutch and shift??

LannyM

I've seen many an ITR at the drags at Lebanon Valley, and the best drivers were running low 14's with IHE, mid 14's stock. I haven't seen anyone post a 14.xx time slip for a TSX as of yet, and certainly the magazines are only mid 15s at best, so I can't see a TSX hanging with an ITR. Must have been a bad driver, because I've seen plenty in the high 15s as well-you need to really push the ITR to get the most out of it. I would agree, though, we could hang with a GS-R.

Also, at 95mph, a typical trap speed for this type of car, you are traveling around 140' per second, or 14' per .10 second. Since the car is about 15' long, a two car lead will result in around a .2 second better 1/4 time.

Bass Mechanic

it's an aquired skill you need to practice it yes. you hol;d the gas and shift without lifting.
it's kind of hard to really understand how fast of a shift im talking about unless you have seen it done before but if i were to guess how long it actually takes to shift 1 gear to the next its probly just less than .1-.2 of a second. the secrit is to hit the clutch and back off at the same time grabbing the next gear.

i dont know if its because im a drummer that my hands and feet are so quick. but people who have seen me do it are pretty impressed when they see it.
i should also make clear there is absolutly no gear grinding between shifts. it happens so fast the engine appears to shift like an automatic because the engine literally goes from 7200 rpm to the rpm of the next gear without getting a chance to free spin.

SirWaWa

that sounds amazing

dom

I'm somewhat surprised as the former owner of a 98 GS-R. In honesty, back when I was 21, 22 I used to race Preludes and never lost and all it had was an AEM intake. In fact the only race I ever lost in that car was to a Turboed Eagle Talon Tsi and that was from a roll.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

What? no double-clutching? J/K

ClutchPerformer

I think it happens on Type-Rs because they're already so high-strung. It's hard to improve on what's there in the first place. And if you do in some way, you'll lose something else (like Bass Mechanic said).

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Simply bolting on performance parts doesn't mean you always have performance gain if no tuning is done to take advantage of those parts. Tuning is everything when you want to optimize your mods.

fdl

The gsr came in auto?

dom

And no it didn't, thank god.

mickey513

All I can say is that I smell B.S. in this thread.

A perfectly working GSR with name brand mods is faster than a 6-speed TSX. Unless the GSR vtec system was working, no way would a gsr lose by TWO cars. I seen gsr with I/H/E keep up neck to neck with RSX-S, and we all know a RSX-S is faster than a 6-speed TSX.

iamhomin

That's exactly what I thought, unless of course, it was a driver's race.

fdl

We're talking fractions of a second here. Its very possible.


I saw a guy run a 16 flat in a S2000 at the drag strip so the biggest factor is always the driver.

stock to stock , a gsr and tsx should be fairly neck and neck, a true drivers race.

ClutchPerformer

Clutch, who voted

dom

Voted for what?

ClutchPerformer

:rofl:

dom

PixelHarmony

I always thought that's how you're supposed to shift? I've been drumming for 6 years but I would equate good driving to how well one knows their car and how to drive it. I still have trouble shifting and catching at redline with little lag time and not making the car jerk at all... Practice makes permenant guys, learn from someone that knows how to do it and practice it right!!

reloaded

Wanna make a video of you doing it? Rep points for you from me if you do it!!! I'd love to see you shift that fast..maybe i'll learn something from it.

REloaded

PixelHarmony

just watch some best motoring videos. That's the speed I think most people would shift at, the only thing is making it smooth. I don't know how fast this guy thinks he can shift, but I'm sure it'll be just as fast as a BMI racer.

euroStyle

I dont know about that. they must have been some crappy drivers.
i've seen a race tl-s vs itr, it was stock or with iceman coldair. and my friend on the itr wasnt the greatest shifter but the tl-s had no chance. i've seen it my self. few rounds too. and the itr is much faster then the gsr.

Seattle Cl-S

I ran a 16.5 my very first time down the track w/ the blower. All I know is I had the pedal pinned to the floor and was only making smoke for the first 60'... Even someone in an auto can mess up, so driving a manual is ALWAYS driver dependant given fairly close cars.

reloaded

I agree with you...ITRs are faster...they're faster than the RSX-S. RSX-S will walk on a regular stock TL no doubt.

Bass Mechanic

when i had my TL i gained a .5 second running the shifter through the gates from L-2-3 rather than using the sport shift. reason is simply because the SS mode makes the first to 2nd shift before redline and there is nothing you can do about it.
as for me beating the ITR i wouldnt think the altitude has much to do with it but i do live at 6500 feet above sealevel. i would expect it to affect both cars exactly the same but perhaps a 4 cyl has even less torque than a v6 at altitude?
i can tell you that the difference between sealevel and here is almost a full second so i definitly wouldnt brag about 1/4 times i could run here. i could however make a comparason to what i ran with my lude and my TL at the same elevation.

RMATIC09

hmmm....

Stokeless_TSX

I can pull away from a GSR no problem =) done it a few times on the freeway. Never had the chance to try from a stop though. So I believe the story. We maybe heavier but we have ALOT more torque than the GSR and from stop light to stop light that is what is gonna be the determining factor in the race.

mickey513

Um....166 torque and 3300lbs+ doesn't = a faster car than a GSR.

sauceman

Well maybe not on paper, but in reality, it is feasible. Don't forget other factors like gear ratios, and the fact that the TSX tranny is very efficient at putting the power to the ground.

I haven't tried a GSR myself, but I believe it would be a very tight race, but at the advantage of the TSX nonetheless. It would obviously be a driver's race though.

Bass Mechanic

you know what guys, for thoes of you that dont belive what im saying and are trying to put up all the numbers to prove otherwise, let me just say.
the TSX is a faster car than the GSR plain and simple. when i raced him we were about even through 1st gear. i can tell you that because of his higher redline i had to shift to 2nd before he did but after i got to 2nd i began pulling away noticably. by the end of 2nd i was at least 1 car ahead and when i hit 3rd i got another car length at least.

it depends on what your definition of close is. if you call that close then great but in my opinion that wasnt really as close as i would have expected. you have to realise that the GSR has the old VTEC motor. it has less torque less HP and of course does weigh less.
but if you consider all the bennifits of the TSX and the fact that it makes it's torque way before the GSR does. the TSX holds it's torque nearly the same across the entire RPM range. its easy to see how the TSX can still oversome the weight issue with a fatter torque curve. the GSR like a lot of old VTEC engines doesnt really make gobs of power untill it gets a lot closer to the redline.
also the gearing of the TSX is a lot better spaced and gears matched to that engine.
also i would be willing to lay odds that the TSX would easily pull away from a GSR especially at highway speeds because the 6MT in the TSX IMO seems to have some of the best gearing on the highway i have ever seen.
when i had my old 98 Lude SH on the highway it really needed another high gear the 4th to 5th jump was kinda drastic and many 5 speed trannys are the same way.

firedc5

itr's are a hair faster than a type s stock for stock.

Im very skeptical of the claims that a tsx can run l5.1 stock. i dont think thats the case, ill give it mid 15s at best. Ive had extensive experience in a tsx 6 speed that has led me to this conclusion.
IMHO, a gsr and a tsx are a drivers race.

sauceman