Apocalypse

I'm just wondering who here has taken the TSX to it's limits? By that I mean, redlining every gear (well, at least the first 3 gears).

The question comes from something that I've noticed on this past weekend. I wanted to see how the car would do from a straight-line drag-style full throttle run. So, from a stoplight, after redlining 1st, shifted into second, I noticed that I was able to squawk the tires, but the RPMs dropped down 2000 RPMs !!

Originally, I thought it was the way I shifted and maybe I clutched out too soon (possible mis-shift), but after several attempts, it seemed like this was something that CANNOT be stopped. My friend and I even switched the VSA off as we thought maybe it had something to do with the tire traction...but to no avail.

I know the car is not made for drag racing by any means, but could it be the Drive-By-Wire technology that's stopping the car from reaching the full potential of each and every single gear that the driver wishes to impose on the motor?

You guys have any thoughts or stories to back this up with ?

Apocalypse

We've thought of that...and both my friend and I used to drag race our Civics out in various track days (Cayuga)...and to avoid sounding too conceited here, I think we can shift pretty quick.

BTW, if you clutch out too soon (without giving the motor the fuel that it needs in the subsequent gears), your RPMs should drop. However, if you DOWNSHIFT and you clutch out too soon, your RPMs will be higher....

I'm picturing this in my head...but I think I'm correct in what I said...

darth62

Fortunately, I've never had to push my TSX. I once had to push my Accord, after it ran out of gas. But, the engine in the TSX works well and there is no reason to push the car on my own.

Apocalypse

FUNNY GUY....

onenonlieTSX

I've squeezed every last drop of juice out of my TSX. I'll admit, it doesn't really "FEEL" like its moving but the speedometer needle gets up there pretty quick. At first, I was not at all impressed after experiencing what you did. At redline, you shift, and the car boggs a little, loosing valuble RPMs, then slowly picks up again. It's all due to the gearing ratios. Compared to the RSX-S... shifts from redline drop right into VTEC for the next gear. Again, like everyone says on here, the TSX is NOT a race car. But for a 4 door, 3200lbs, luxary sedan... it hangs with most of the competition. Don't worry... its not your driving techniques, the gearing is a little less aggressive than what most enthusiasts are used to.

ClutchPerformer

Sorry. I misread your post, and commented wrong. That's why I deleted my post.

What I was referring to with the RPMs was that the earlier you let the clutch out (in an upshift), the less time you spend not accelerating and the higher your final RPM should be. There's also the fact that if you let it out really quick, your final RPM will be dragged up artificially by the clutch action.

On a decent 1-2 shift, I end up at about 5500 RPM in second. This sounds like about what you're experiencing. Maybe you haven't noticed, but there's a big ratio space (1.748) between 1st and 2nd gears. That's why the big RPM dropoff on a 1-2 shift. 3-4 is comparatively less (1.40). Don't forget that fuel cut isn't until about 7400 RPM, so use that to your advantage.

Apocalypse

Cool...thanks for the replies. I'm not looking to race this car (i love it too much...I'm gonna baby this MORE than I did to my SiR).

I'm obviously not used to the gearings on this car....the engines and trannies that I used to drag race with were usually, the race-bred sub-2.0L Honda engines (B16A2's, B18C5's)

sauceman

If, between 1st and second shifts, you powershift your gear change with a quick shift and don't drop the gas, you'll have the tires spinning just enough to keep your rpms at around 6000rpms, where you want to be. The rest of the gearshift are ok if I remember right.

Don't drop the gas, it's gonna kick llike hell, but the car won't die on you.

fdl

I've noticed the 1-2 bog too. Its definately the gear ratios. 1st needs to be taller, or 2nd shorter. One or the other. On that same note, i wish my 6th was taller too.

DEVO

DBW... will hold the higher rpm... it is designed not to drop as fast as it could without it.... they do this for emmision reasons.

ClutchPerformer

Yes. I say 6th should be as far away from 5th as 2nd is from 1st. That'd make the 6th gear ratio 0.474 rather than 0.659. Then life would be good (especially on the highway).

atlatr

If you were to do this with 6th gear not only would you have to down shift when you reach a small hill but the cruise control would either stall the car trying to make it up a hill or it would kick off all the time. Either way a pain in the butt. I'm sure those braniacs over in Japan have optimized the gear spacing for the best performance and economy available.
Just my thoughts
Cheers
Todd

Kidd

well... I have a 5AT, but I use the sport shift 80 percent of the time I drive... regarding pushing the TSX... well I mostly canyon carve, backroad and mountain runs in my TSX when I got the chance to. I got to say, like any honda, if you keep the RPMs high then it can scream pretty good, I pushed the hell out of my TSX on the backroads a couple of times, its easy with this car, the way the engine and suspension syncs with the driver and the path of the road is unparallel to anything in this class, my buddies 325i can't keep up with me on the backroads with my Trish. I redlined every gear up to 3rd and downshift when my RPMs were too high, and it blinked the number at me and then waited a few seconds after the RPM is at a safe 6K and lets me hold it at the downshift pretty well.

There is no pulling power from this car compared to most I think in the early 1-4K on the Tach, but once it hits you can feel it jump, and then neddle starts flying on the regular traffic or on the freeway.

LeMasseHammer

I don't really drive much over 80mph, so I can't say I've redlined 3rd gear, but I'm fearless when it comes to revving this engine. I've been getting to know Mr. Fuel Cutoff lately. This 6-speed and K24 combination is and I feel like I'm driving it the way Honda and the driving gods intended.

I'm asking Santa for a set of Yokohamas for Christmas, but I don't think he's got room on his sleigh

phirenze

I drive the $hit out of mine. WHen I redline 1st and 2nd the rpms drop to about 5500 which gives me a huge kick in the ass and I just take off . I have also redlined 3rd and 4th (not in a row) and I can tell you that redlining these gears is much more satisfying than 1 or 2. The car seems to really open up above 70 mph, just don't be in 6th when it happens and you'll see what I mean.

ClutchPerformer

I doubt that if you're moving fast enough (as long as you're above 2500 RPM, you've got plenty of torque). And my point all along is that it's OK to downshift if you need some more kick. That's the reason I bought a car with a manual transmission. I'd just rather not turn 3500 RPM at 80mph.

I disagree. What is the performance benefit of having a 6th gear so close in ratio to 5th? Have you ever redlined 5th? Are you racing people up to and beyond 120-130mph? I haven't, and I hope you aren't. My point: there is VERY LITTLE PERFORMANCE BENEFIT to having 6th close to 5th. There is, however, a substantial economy benefit to having a tall(er) 6th gear (note that the automatic transmission'ed TSX gets better highway mileage than the 6MT--something I've never seen before). That is a fact.

fdl

Exactly, and if they were going to have 6th where it is now, then they may as well have raised the ratio on 2-5...this way getting 2nd closer to 1st and being more aggressive all the way through.

With 6th so close to 5th right now we are basically driving a 5 speed. I really think it negates the whole advantage of having 6 gears.

DEVO

yeah... the S2000 folks have taken note. 1-5 are nice and tight where as 6th is tall. They should do this with all their 6spds.

Kanon23

I redlines my baby a few times...one time even hit the fuel cutoff...so sweet~even my 330ci friend is in awe~

majormojo

Agreed. 6th ought to be a taller gear, and 1-5 should be closer. In partcular, 5 doesn't need to be OD, and having 1-2 a little closer would be nice.

The only reason I can think of for the current ratio is that they were worried about not having enough grunt at low rpm and the driver having to downshift more often. It's like the tranny engineers were expecting an engine with no low-rpm torque or something. Seems to me that the price paid in increased fuel consumption by keeping the rpms up is too high for the supposed benefit.

DEVO

They are worried because there is a stupid test that has cars accelerating from 30 in top gear... and they time this. The test is stupid but it's a number that gets looked at.

fdl

Ya but on the other hand they could have raised the ratio of the other gears and made the 0-60 and 1/4 times better. And those numbers are usually more important.

I think the biggest reason is the cruise control and making sure that the rpms were high enough that it unneccesary to downshift in most situations (since you are stuck in that gear with cruisecontrol on). This is the only reason i can think of, although i still think its a weak reason.

2004_Acura_TSX

I guess taking my TSX to the track 4 times and running it counts as pushing the car to its limits.

I posted the pictures on another forum, but if anyone here wants to see my track pics from October I can post them here.

Tengu

Right on, just powershift and you won't have to worry about losing RPM's

ClutchPerformer

....but won't you be bouncing off the rev limiter until you let the clutch pedal out again? I never quite understood powershifting...

Dan Martin

It's a great way to burn out a clutch and yes you usually do hit the rev limiter.

sauceman

Happens for a fraction of a second, and yes it is very rough on pretty much all the drivetrain. But when you want to get the numbers down, you have to take measures.

johnnym_RENAMED

I apologize if I’m in the wrong forum. Just a quick question: When NOT drag racing, i.e., just driving normally, say in a rush-hour commute, has anyone experienced the revs staying too high in between shifts? I realize that in performance driving you want that, but in ordinary driving I feel that the revs should drop faster than they do. The revs kinda hang up there too long. (My TSX is brand new -- only 600 miles so far -- and it’s not broken in yet.) Has anyone experienced this?

RogerPodacter

Yes that is a common problem and kinda annoying...wait till you drive it in the summer with the AC on, the rpms drop much faster. and that makes it really hard to rev match because you have to relearn when and how to engage the clutch...

KJLite

i'v enoticed this car is much more sensitive to throttle application, i think its the drive-by-wire system. anyway, just adjust your foot action and take your foot off the gas a split second earlier than usual before you press in the clutch.

it also might be a honda trick to help match revs between shifts, kinda like an automatic double clutch?

slats

I agree with Clutch and DEVO, the TSX needs a much taller 6th gear. I want to only be pulling about 2500 rpm at 70 mph. That way you get better MPG on the highway. And besides, who minds downshifting for hills (for me it's an excuse to double clutch )
The top gear test is stupid except for a slushbox.