FrankO

I just want to put out a Warning to all 2004 TSX owners. This is what happened to me and is still going on as we speak. I saw small puffs of mist coming from my 2004 TSX Center Right Air conditioning vent. I am now of course out of warranty. I called my local Acura Dealership and they said not to worry make an appointment and bring it in. I told them I would in the next day or so. That afternoon I was driving my TSX and smelled an electrical smell for a second, but it went away quickly, I stopped to dropped off some cleaning and when I got back into my TSX, started it and shifted from Park to Reverse, both the P and the R lit up on the dash, that was odd, then the D started blinking for about 5 seconds, then the check engine light came on. I pulled back in and stopped the car. Then I restarted it and the same D blink and the check engine light. About half a mile down the street was my local Jiffy Lube, so I started my car and I limped over there to see it if was something simple. They were great they checked the fluids and then put the code reader on my TSX and told me that it was a P0705 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit malfunction (PRNDL Input). They wrote down the code for me and said that I should get to a transmission shop right away. I asked where the closest shop was and they said there was an AAMCO about two miles away and that they had luck sending people over there.

So down the street I went. They had my car for two days before they called me back. When they did they said that my PRNDL switch was blown but that does not happen very often. The tech said I noticed you said you smelled something right before the problem started. I said yes I smelled an electrical smell. He said OH-Boy. I need to check this out more carefully now. One more day and AAMCO calls me back. They said you have a big problem. Your heater core blew out. I said, what does that have to do with my transmission. Could you come over we need to show you some things. I drove over to AAMCO and the Service Manager handed me my ECU. It was covered in green gunk. He said your heater core was dripping, not a lot but a little. Your heater core is right above and next to your ECU, the fluids dripped onto your ECU and filled it up until it shorted out this pin right here, he pointed to the pin far on one end. He said that pin is your transmission connection to the ECU. So your core leaked down onto your ECU filling it up until it shored the ECU connection in your transmission and blew your PRNDL switch out and now you are totally screwed.

Your out of warranty, you have a blown ECU, you have a blown heater core and you have a blow PRNDL switch. All to the tune of $2,400 so far and they are still working on the problem. I haven’t got my car back yet because Acura can’t provide them with a heater core or an ECU, and you want know why? They are apparently all in short supply. Gee I wonder why. The AAMCO Service Manager told me that this will happen again. When a heater core blows on other models make like mine, unless they have made a design change, there is no place for the fluid to go but onto the ECU. When I do get my car and all of the documentation back Acura will hear from me. And if I were another 2004 Auto TSX owner I would be worried. I only had 58,000 miles on my TSX. If you have that or more I would be changing my heater cores, or watching them carefully. If you see a puff of vapor from your Right Center Vent go directly to a shop and have the heater core checked. I also think that I am going to try to figure out a way of waterproofing my ECU. If Acura does not help me out I will let you all know about it. :rippedoff

TWONZ

All I can say is WOW.

As an 04 owner myself, with 49K, this does worry me. But I also have the extended warranty.
I think I've smelled this once since I've owned the car but it’s never occurred again.
Please keep us posted, I want to know what Acura is going to do.

Sorry for your misfortune.

sho0z

holy sh!t, i ahve an 04 also...im gonna fork out and buy the extended warranty now....makes me wanna go get an 06...

PACman

Wow, sorry to hear about this unfortunate event. FrankO, write to Acura Client Services. Explain what has happened. They can be helpful as they helped me with my A/C. If this is a design flaw, I smell RECALL.

kaliraver69

This sucks big time. It sounds like this should be a concern for a recall on all Auto 2004's. I have a 2004 TSX and I hope this won't happen to me since am at about 50,xxx miles. I haven't smelled any weird or electrical burning smell. Wish you the best luck with Acura corp. and make sure to keep us updated.

human668

Wow, I'm starting to worry now. Please report this to Acura Client Services and keep us updated. All 04 owner will thanks you.

When this happened, did you drive with manual mode or just D?

Redfish

iTrader: (2)

If it's the heater core, it could affects all models, auto or stick.

Glad I just rolled 50K a few weeks ago!

Keep us posted, thanks!

LuvMyTSX

Hopefully this has been addressed on the 2G!

Miamicarfan

Guys,

A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION would be:

Is this problem confined to the 2004 TSX's or the entire range of 2004-2008????

I am not aware that there were design changes from 2004 to 2008 as relates to the location of the ECU in relation to the heater core.


This potential problem would not be confined to 2004 TSXs if the location and proximity of the ECU and Heater CORE to one another remain the same for 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008 Tsxs.

KingTSX

iTrader: (1)

Keep us posted, as a 04' MT owner, I am very interested to hear the outcome of this. I just rolled 62k, so I will make sure to keep my eyes open...thanks

shmork53

Another good reason to do regular Cooling system flushes. Wow that sucks dude, why in the world would Acura put the ECU under the heater core. I have not heard of any heater cores getting leaks but it does happen. That really sucks.

FrankO

Sorry Gentlemen and Ladies, I had every planned service on my cooling system. Every flush, every inspection, every refill. This car was in to the dealer or to jiffy lube every 3k miles. I had every scheduled maintenance in the book. From the very first puff of mist to the total destruction of my electrical system was about 12 hours. And only about 15 minutes of driving time by the way.

Does anyone have the contact information for the Acura Client Services?

AAMCO told me that when the heater core blows there is no place for the fluid to go, no drain holes no path out, but straight to the ECU. I have not inspected the area myself so I am just going by what they told me. They are going to provide me with documentation for my discussions with Acura. The Tech told me that when he inspected the situation he could not believe that the area was designed like it was, how could they expect this not to happen he commented.

PACman

Acura Client Services

By phone - 800.382.2238 M-F 6a-5p PST.

By mail - Acura Client Services
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746

More info can be found on Acura.com ---> About Acura ----> Customer Services

slobeatz

Went and checked my ecu, seems find to me, not even any dust. I hope this doesn't happen. Thanks for the heads up!

HI OFECR

ECU in a ziplock bag anyone ? lol


shit that sucks

LaZyPiGgY

That really sucks...but I'm wondering, this is the first time I've ever heard of this, and many 04 owners have replied, but do we have any 04 owners with more than 54,xxx+ miles? and their car is fine? TSX's been out for a good 4 years already...whos got a high mileage 04 to chime in?

cruiserchuck

I have over 78,000 miles, and no ECU or heater core problem on my 04.

kboosman00

I have about 68K myself and have not ran into this issue. Good luck hopefully you can get this resolved and be one of the pioneers as to pressuring Acura to send out recall to all owners.

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

05 here with 90k miles, no problems yet.

human668

Acura may do this if they send out a recall. LOL

FrankO

This is just a little funny (I am not laughing too much these days) but, I work in Torrance, if they don't help with the problem I can park my TSX in front of their building every day with a big Lemon sign on it.

And I am not the kind of person to win the lottery, I am probably not the first, or the last for this to happen to. Keep an eye out for puffs of mist coming from the right center air conditioning vent, and if you see any, stop, drop and tow. Do not drive another foot. I would also disconnect my battery until the situation is investigated.

cls1000

lol...big surprise. i'm sure 04-08 will be the same. it's not that easy of a task to change the location of the vehicles ecu, so i'm sure they are in the same place.

and i'm also pretty sure this will be next on the list for mine as well. lovely car lol...

acuratech239

iTrader: (2)

Wow, ok, where do I begin. We'll start with the location of both the heater core and ECU.

For the heater core, you can't really have it anywhere else. Acura has been putting them in roughly the middle of the console since forever ago. If you're curious to know where your heater core is, open your hood and look for the two coolant lines running into the firewall. The heater core is directly behind it, in the interior of course.

Now the ECU location, as that seems to be the main point of this top. Acura has been putting the ECUs in most lines of our vehicles in a similar location. My 07 TL-S has it in a similar spot, as do all 04+ TLs. Same with 04+ TSX, some MDXs, and I do believe the previous gen TLs as well. My point is there's not a lot of other options or locations to fit the ECU. It's roughly 6"x6"x1", and has anywhere from 3 to 6 connectors and close to 100 wires coming out of it. That makes for some thick harnesses. So the closer it is to the engine, with the least amount of flexing on the harnesses, the better.

If you've ever looked under/behind your dash, you'll see there's not a lot of empty space. There are so many other control units/wiring harnesses/etc (not to mention the fuse box, etc) that space is limited. Plus the ECU needs to be somewhat easily accessible from a diagnostic standpoint so if there's a problem with a sensor, etc, continuity and voltage tests can easily be run.

Considering that, for instance, in my old Integras, the ECU was mounted lower than the current ones (on the passenger side where you put your feet), the current ECUs higher mounting is better. (From a "flooding" standpoint)

I guess where I'm going with this rant is simply that there is no design flaw. There's not going to be a recall. It's incredibly rare for one of our heater cores to fail, especially at that low of mileage. But at the same time, there's always going to be a small failure of any part, regardless of who makes it, etc. (I make the above statement about the no recall thing under the impression that, unless I'm missing something all together, and my dealership is the only one that's never ever seen any of our cars have this problem...)

And replacing a heater core on a TSX, if I do remember correctly, requires removal of the entire dash assembly. AKA pain in the ass.

What my suggestion is is to simply call up the dealer and let them know what happened. At 58k miles you are just a bit out of warranty. Chances are theyll goodwill everything. The ECU, heater core, trans range switch, etc. They may not reimburse AAMCO/you for the diag, but then again maybe they will.

If I had access to our parts catalog today (I don't since it's Sunday), I'de be curious to look up the availability of an ECU and heater core, since I doubt there's actually a shortage. At least of the ECUs. I could see the heater core not being at a close warehouse, but only because they don't stock a lot since they rarely go bad. And I'm not calling you out on that, I'm saying I think someone was misinformed, and you were told that incorrect info.

Let me close with I'm not trying to rip you apart. I do feel bad for you and understand your anger. I'm just trying to give you some "reasoning" from my end, and I believe that Acura will help you out with this. Whether it just takes a call to your local dealership, or if you have to get ACS involved. Essentially the more hell you raise, the more likely they are to do something...but give them the chance to do something first before you raise hell!

I really do wish you the best of luck on this and hope that you keep us posted. Sorry this got so long, but I left out a bunch of other stuff I was going to comment on.

-- Kevin

Simba91102

Thank God for someone who actually knows what he's talking about (sometimes a refreshing change).

poltergeist

Have to agree with acuratech239...

I've worked on Honda's for 16 years at the dealership level, and can't remember the last time I've seen a leaking heater core. Usually when they do fail it's from someone cracking the inlet/outlet pipes while trying to forcefully replace the heater hoses.

Point is this is likely a rare occurance, that hopefully Acura will take care of for you. I think it's a bit premature for everyone with an 04-08 TSX to panic.

And FWIW most Honda products from the last 10 years + have the ECU (and the heater core) in the same general locations.

Miamicarfan

Acuratech239: Great, informative post. Thanks for posting this.


As far as possible locations for the ECU, What about under the passenger seat? My 1987 Acura Integra (remember those original Integras with the pop up headlights? ) had it there.


Another question, is the ECU in the TSX also close to the AC evaporator (or is it the ac condenser?) If this thing gets old and clogged up it can also start to leak right?

jmathew34

wow please do keep us informed of this situation.

Good Luck

FrankO

If you thought that was a good defense for what happened to me you might want to shove your head into the nearest pile of sand.

Again, like I said, IF your heater core fails there is no place for the liquid to go but onto your ECU. I don’t see a denial of that. Just because it is rare does not mean that it isn’t going to happen or that it isn’t a design flaw. I am an engineer with 28 years of experience and I understand factors of safety in the design process and to have a liquid filled component with no path to the outside environment without that liquid intruding upon a space where electronic equipment is located is the stupidest thing I have heard in quite a long time, and a zero factor of safety. You do not approve designs with ZERO Factors of Safety. You do not hope something does not happen and you do not design in a single point of failure into your system. You perform a “what-if-scenario”, like in this case:

What if the heater core fails?

Acura’s position- Our heater cores never fail so it isn’t an issue, we are perfect and if it does happen it must be someone’s else’s fault not ours. We have magic heater cores.

The real world- All heater cores have the potential to fail. When and if that does happen all of the liquid pours into in this case the ECU and there is a potential that every electronic device in the vehicle will fail. Provide a path for that liquid to leave the compartment without that happening or remotely locate the electronics away from potential harm or waterproof the components (last choice).

Why take the position that it isn’t an issue because it hardly ever happens? What have you designed into your product just in case it does happen? What about a few drain holes? What about a liquid warning sensor that warns you to pull over immediately and don’t drive another inch. What about an Acura Service person who has enough training to tell me when I called Acura, stop, do not drive the vehicle, pull over and tow your vehicle to us right now. Disconnect your battery so that your ECU (that is now being filled with radiator fluid) will not short out and will not damage every other electronic component in the vehicle.

Acura is not NASA, wait……….. or maybe they are, it could have been a Heater Core O-ring that failed. But that is ok because just like NASA said at the Congressional Hearing, NASA determined that the O-rings were never going, to fail just like Acura says their heater cores don’t fail. Good job, my next Vehicle will be a Lexus.

I spoke to a friend yesterday who works on a design team for Lexus and he laughed his A** off when I told him what happened, then went on for an hour about what Lexus takes into consideration in their designs for events like this. Then he told me again that I was an idiot for buying that Acura TSX Tinker Toy. He told me that many time in the past, so I guess I am there idiot here and I deserve the penalty of $2,500 total repair costs and $800 for just the ECU.

I bought the car at Weir Canyon in Anaheim and I am not calling them. They only sell the cars they could care less about after the sale service. But I will be sending documentation and photos to Acura; it might help some of your guys, even if you think you don’t need the help but, I am pretty sure that it will not help me. I am a big boy I take responsibility for my actions and pay the fines associated with them.

Does anyone want to buy a tricked out 2004 Navi Auto TSX with a list of Comptech parts, all new electronic and cooling system components too? Plus brand new 18”, 5Zigen HYPER 5ZRs, with new tires too. Just let me know because when I get this piece back its going right on the market. I give.

human668

Now, I'm thinking it may not just Acura also Honda outside America. Those Accord in Europe and Japan.

cybereclipse

reminds of me of this guy:

bought his audi tt and ever since then it gave him problems...
so he made a website, stickers, and parked it in front of the dealership

FrankO

Yes, the TSX is the Euro Accord.

FrankO

Look I am not saying that the TSX is a Lemon but........... two weeks after my warranty was up, all of the lights around my NAV system went out. I called Weir Canyon Acura where I purchased the TSX and they said that they would take a look and see what they could do for me about the out of warranty issue. So I began looking on the net for TSX problems and found a service bulletin that covered this issue, low and behold there was one, I found information about it right here on this site. I then did some more investigation and found a copy posted on the net. And because it was a latent defect on the TSX and extended my warranty on that area to 70K miles.

ACURA Service Bulletin 04-021

http://photos.imageevent.com/astrobo...sb/B04-021.pdf

When I went into Weir Canyon the service advisor pretended not to know anything about the Service Bulletin until i shoved it under his nose and said here this might help you recall the issue.

What they were going to do is fix the problem, cover a part of the cost on the poor dealers dime ,and make me think that they were doing me a favor. Criminal.

I have relatives who are service managers at dealerships (Chevy and Ford) and I would not trust any one of them as far as I could throw them, they were hoodlums when they were teens and they are still practicing that old and noble profession now. They lie, cheat, & steal, and love doing it each and every day. And they laugh about how much money they save the company with sticking it to the stupid consumer. If you want to know who a stupid consumer is, go into your bathroom and look in the mirror. There he is! Smile.

financeman1

Wow, Mr. negativity. I feel bad for what happened to your car but your attitude wont help your situation. You've already thrown in the towel and have given up on Acura and your car, which most car owners dream of having our level of reliability.

Lets try to fix this situation. I would immediately get it towed to your Acura dealership. If they dont help with cost, at least it will be someone familiar with your car working on it, not Aamco ( all my local Aamcos are pros with domestics, but I wouldn't trust with foreign cars)

Next, call Acura customer service immediately. Tell them how you've taken care of your car, your a local Acura customer ( which it doesn't sound like you are) and need help. Dont call with an attitude but rather ask for help. Plead for help if necessary. Kindness goes very far. ( I had a similar fluke breakdown on the laptop Im using now- it was 3 years old and 1 year past the warranty I bought, but after being very kind with the Indian CSR for almost 2 hours and him getting with his manager several times my $500 repairs were covered)

Then get with service manager. Hopefully, you have all maintenance documented there so you have shown how you've taken care of you car and have given them a lot of money to help you take care of it. Tell them you have a claim open with Acura customer service. They will inspect your car, see its a fluke and get with Acura cust service. Maybe they can cut you a deal, or meet your halfway. Maybe they do nothing, but at least you tried.

I know Im half your age, but one thing I know is the engineer know it all attitude wont help at all. Just dont give it.

KingTSX

iTrader: (1)

My suggestion and probably a suggestion of others, but find yourself a different dealership. Anyone that has to deal with idiots like that, should locate another dealership to have their car serviced at. Good luck to you

PACman

I also bought my ride from Weir. I had my HVAC lights go out back when I was in the 4X,XXX miles. The SA didn't hear about the TSB until I mentioned it. He consulted a Master technician, and the Master tech right away knew about the TSB. It's not the dealership, but the people running it that makes the experience.

jackspat2

As a fellow engineer, I would have to agree with that assessment. It's a bad location no matter even if the part has a 99.4% of being reliable. And saying that there are no other locations for an ECU in the car is complete trash in my book. Engineers find places and make places. The ECU is somewhat of the mother of the vehicle and if it fails, the car fails, no matter what. You won't find the ECU of an aircraft hung by a string; people die that way.

And on another note, attitude usually doesn't get you anywhere when you're out of warranty. I would suggest trying what some of the people above suggested. Dealerships are stealerships. They'll rip you off and kick you while you're on the ground.

Moral of the story: Extended warranty is your best friend.

poltergeist

Obviously AAMCO did a "great" job of diagnosing the car. It took them two days to tell you the PRNDL (what's also known as the range switch) has failed, then another day to decide the PCM has been shorted with coolant? The Range Switch is mounted on the side of the trans in the engine compartment, so how can it be damaged by a coolant leak under the dash? Did they test it? It's a simple switch to test. Sounds like they're throwing parts at it as they go.

So I guess we can assume that they are "experts" that the car has a poor design, even though I've never seen anyone else on this Board with this problem since I joined in Jan '04. Obviously "weird" things happen to individual cars occasionally, and hopefully Acura will take care of some of them out of warranty with a little friendly encouragement.

There's probably a 1 in 999,999 chance that a high pressure fuel line in the engine compartment could split and spray fuel on the exhaust manifold and start a fire. Must be a bad design of every fuel injected car on the road.

moda_way

I would make one suggestion, before you park your TSX infront of the dealership, seek legal counsel and document everything you have found. BUT, if you take that step of aggressively voicing yourself to the dealership through protest, you are taking a step making resolution nearly impossible. With a lawyer, this site, and many of the very sound advocates in this thread alone, you have options. In a legal suit, you can recover the cost of the lawyer, make it public (and I might add Acura/Honda wouldn't want any of that kind of publicity), and get resolution to the issue. Once fixed, if you still aren't happy with the car, dump it. I assure you, you did get unlucky with the part and it happens unfortunately, but let logic prevail over emotions.

Simba91102

My post wasn't directed at you. It's just nice to hear comments from someone who actually works inside the system. It seems most information proffered here is either hearsay or anecdotal at best (including mine). Your story would indicate to me that you're a victim of bad luck more than anything else. Loss of respect for the brand is understandable and it's certainly you're right to shop elsewhere next time. But you should also understand that those of us that haven't suffered that same fate (or any other problems for that matter) with our cars may not follow you out the door. I agree that there's no need to get nasty here. You're just sharing a problem you've experienced and are trying to warn others of the possibility of someone else suffering the same problem. Hopefully (for us), it's an isolated case.

FrankO

Right now I am on the phone with Acura Customer Services and they are telling me that I must take the vehicle to a Dealership, and I must PAY the dealership for them to diagnose a problem (that no longer exists because it has been repaired), the dealer must then report it to a Regional Manager, then he must decide if he reports it to Acura, and then they can not promise that they would cover any of the costs anyway because it is out of warranty and I did not take it to Acura for this problem. Yay Acura. But they would take note of the problem in their database.

So, now I just told them fine, I will now begin to post my problem and their response without any embleshment on every Acura Vehicle Club Web Site in the United States, Canada and the World. And also I work in Torrance just down the street from Acura Customer Service, and I can park my TSX in front of their building with a nice sign on it. I need to think of something catchy for the sign. I asked their opinion of what the sign should say. They didn't respond.

Oh, now they are seeing if they can get me someone to help me right now without first taking it to the dealership. OH. WOW now they say that they might be able to assist me with my problem. See how being a nice guy gets you ahead in this world? I should have sent them flowers. Nah a baseball bat worked a lot better.

I now magically have a Case Number and a Case Manager without driving my vehicle anywhere. I think nice guys must do a lot of driving around.

I am sure all of you care if this is a latent defect or not, I will strive to find that out as this effort progresses.