gftgrill

go back to the dealership. ask a technician to go out to the lot and choose a random brand new TSX. have them open the hood and remove those nuts by hand.

if they can't do it, then say the dealership is at fault for the damages because they're only hand tight from the factory. and since the random TSX from the lot didn't let the nuts turn by hand, then the dealership is removing that cover and doing god knows what to the motor before selling the car.

Chris_F

yea i agree with everyone else, don't stand for this sort of BS. They have no case, you do

ChrisF

Yeah I want to, I don’t think it’s worth going to court and fighting Honda Canada for just $1500.

Besides for the last month I’ve been driving a 1993 Ford Arrowstar that has the driving dynamics of an aircraft carrier; I think I’m ready to have my car back.

The dealership did admit that he has seen the problem a couple of times before, once on an RSX and the other a CL. However both incidences had an over rev warning in the ECU history. – didn’t find signs of driver error with my car.

I found this link while searching the net for similar cases
This is why you don’t buy a Ford:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ark_plugs.html

feelgood13

anyone know how the warranties work? does the dealer fix the problem and send a bill to Honda? its like free business for them then, right?

savage

fight it, i doubt this Honda "engineer" was a real engineer. He is probably a high level tech who Honda sent in to just find a problem you could have caused.

Fight it because that is a terrible excuse. I am surprised he couldnt come up with something better. I would not pay a penny, try contacting the local news agency and see if they will help you.

gftgrill

that's basically it. they determine the problem, submit it to honda. Honda then decides if they will pay the bill or not. if they won't pay the bill, then you have to.

mercman

Here is some reasonable advice from someone who has seen this before.

First, forget red wire injector and spark plug wire cross circuit theories. The spark coil can not supply enough current to activate any injector or 12v solenoid.

Second, this is not the first time a plug has shoot out of an engine. For the dealership to tell you a story about not having any record of this happening is pure bunk. A plug will pop out if it is improperly installed or the wrong plug (I’ve seen this). Also over revving or water/oil sucked into the compression chamber.

Third, this can be fixed with a tap and a Hilo coil or even a larger base plug (if one is available) without pulling the head.

Forth, As far as the Mods go, are all the other plugs stock factory Honda? As long as it is a factory original install you should not have a problem getting it fixed. However, if the plugs were replaced by you or someone else, then you are out of luck.

Tell them to fix it or you will contact your State’s Attorney General.

jeff

curls

I've always heard that aluminum heads are not favorable for Heli-coil's because aluminum is a lot softer than the coils. They might make a good-for-aluminum one now, though, I'm not sure.

I agree though that this is something that should be taken care of 100% by Acura, and not the owner of the car, unless 100% determinable to be his fault.

Also, he's Canadian, so we don't have attorney generals, nor would the dealer care because lemon laws and consumer protection laws are pretty lax here, unfortunately.

spatel600

I would fight it to the end. Don't let those bastards take $1500...thats bullshit man you gotta stand up for what you believe in. If you have to pay figure out if your insurance is willing to cover it. Another route is pay for it and charge it to your CC. Let the CC company fight for you. Make sure you don't sign a single paper though.

peter_bigblock

I agree with most posts here -- if it were me I'd have filed a small-claims case as soon as the Honda/Acura "engineer" claimed that, since the plug cover nuts weren't finger tight, this must be partially your fault. That's as made-up an excuse as there is. I just went out to my TSX, which has never in it's life had the plug cover removed, and they're not only not finger tight, I had a hard time getting them off with a nut driver.

Bullshit. Do what you want -- it's your $1500 -- but I hate to hear of a case where a car company was able to browbeat someone into submitting rather than fight. They were counting on you "just wanting your car back" so they waited you out and gave you the run around.

First it was your shock absorbers that caused your spark plug to go flying through your hood? Then it's the nonsensical finger-tightened plug-cover nuts. What's next? You weren't driving with the stereo real loud, were you? Because if you were, that could have caused all FOUR of the plugs to shoot through the hood . . .

Bah!

joerockt

Any updates?

PJS

If the matter is still in dispute and unresolved, then I'd challenge Honda/Acura if they are happy to see a customer walk to another brand once the TSX is fixed, as it'll be sold immediately.
Don't speak to the entry level muppets - you need the ones further up the muppet tree.
I'd put it too them, that if they force you to spend $1500 because they don't want to, they'll lose more than that in future sales by you and family/friends/colleagues.
Is it worth that much to them and their dealers?
Don't go quietly - kick up a right royal rumpus, and definitely consider legal advice. Whilst you may have lax consumer protection, you do have plenty of consumer rights to make use of.

godfather2

sorry to hear about your predicament

MichaelkTSX

Sorry to hear what happened and I hope it works out for the best.

If this happened to me, I would no longer be an Acura owner.

s001y

This plug "firing out" shocks me. From an engineering perspective, the threads are stripped all the way? It is really unlikely that this has happened but more like part of it as the plug was not torqued down tight enough or somehow came loose.

I have seen plugs disintegrated heads but remained in tight on H22As with JUN cams that was driving crazy power. Head blown off but splugs stayed where they were.

Then again, really sorry to hear the BS from the dealership on lowered suspensions etc. Best BS I have heard....

zendrive

I hope your situation works out well for you. I also hope you honestly never had a non-Acura tech messing with your plugs. Given the long list of mods to your car, it raises a ton of red flags. Regardless, you should be treated fairly and hopefully they have the dilligence to see it through and meet you halfway, at the minimum.

aaronng

Plugs are made to be installed and removed. It's a consumable item and hence the thread in the head should be durable.

junktionfet

I wonder what "school" this "engineer" attended? Let's hope he isn't representative of all Honda engineers, otherwise we're all screwed

I suppose the shop manual shows fastener torque in terms of facial expressions and grunts. Measuring such things in Newton-Meters isn't precise enough.

curls

SoCaliTrojan

looks exactly like what happened on our other accord...the spark plug shot up, dented the hood, and I guess fell back onto the highway. The car still ran on 3 cylinders.

I think the spark plug slowly became loose, and finally was able to take off while on the freeway. We just put a spark plug back in, and it hasn't shot back out yet lol (this was about 3 years ago?)

I didn't bother reporting it or going to the dealer (just had a mechanic look it over), so I'm sure there's alot of unreported cases out there

junktionfet

When I changed the plugs on my friend's TL recently, there was evidence that quite a lot of combustion gas was leaking from the seal between the ceramic and steel part of the spark plugs--some were worse than others.

None of them were about to fall apart, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if one of those would've come apart eventually--leaving the steel part threaded into the head, and the ceramic part blown out along with the coil pack.

These were the original stock NGK plugs. This isn't the first time I've seen NGK plugs in that condition, and it did worry me a bit. I'm already scared to use Bosch plugs because I've seen the ceramic insulator around the tip break off and score a cylinder bore.

PJS

Denso Iridium Power is what I replaced mine with when it had it's 75K service recently.
Can't say I've noticed any real difference except it's a bit hard to turn over than with the originals in, even after their supposed end of useful life. And these are supposed to require less power to generate the spark.
Probably should've went with the long life versions or Honda's own.

moda_way

Check that the gap is per the spec. Eventhough you can put any plug in your car, the gap is critical for the plug to fire correctly. Sometimes in shipping and poor handling, the gap can be changed.

curls

Good point. ALWAYS check the gap when installing new plugs, or reinstalling old plugs.

I once bought 4 plugs for my Integra. All 4 were supposedly "pre-gapped" to the exact gap required. NONE of them were correct, and ALL of them were different from each other. Kinda scary, really... because incorrectly gapped plugs can do a lot of damage if they go uncorrected.

junktionfet

True that... when I was a tech at both the Audi dealer as well as the independent import shop, I don't think I ever encountered a "pre gapped" spark plug that was gapped all that well.

That is another reason why I like copper or silver tipped plugs--you can safely gap them as much as you want. Platinum and Iridium plugs are really fragile and you often cannot get the gap super close without risking damage. That and they're absurdly expensive and horrid electrical conductors.

joerockt

Hmmm, I wonder if thats whats wrong with my lawnmower. I changed the spark plug a few weeks ago and its been running erratic. I wonder how I can find out what the gap should be...

PJS

LOL.
You and that damn lawnmower of yours.
Just turf it and get an electric one instead.

joerockt

What with how high I let my grass grow, an electric wouldnt stand a chance

jlukja

PJS

Is he growing wheat?
That's a dual purpose bread knife/ham slicer!


Sorry for drifting OT

curls

Either from the manual for the lawnmower, or a sparkplug manufacturer website (surprisingly they have lots of detail on them), or those little stands next to the spark plugs that have make/model of vehicles and the required plug. But ths would be at a lawncare store, etc... as I doubt they list lawnmowers between Lambo's and Lexus in the auto parts aisle.