Background threads:
- https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27552
- https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ervice+advisor

Long-and-short of it is that the engine was rebuilt under warranty. 89,000km. Was burning 1 liter of oil every 1,000km like clockwork. Driving style had no effect. Compression was good, leakdown was good. Acura decided to rebuild, ordering the piston ring set and all required rebuild items like gaskets, etc... and I "believe" the valve seals and guides were going to be dependant on condition/specs once the head was off.

I got my car back today at about 1:30. Didn't bother to get every detail about what was done and what wasn't, as I requested that all paperwork and parts lists and issue sheets be copied and sent to me via mail (the paperwork wasn't closed at the time I picked it up anyhow, so it didn't matter).

I picked it up, drove it back to work, and noticed a few things:

• Clutch pedal extremely light, and grabs very strongly. They must have changed the tranny fluid, probably the hydraulic clutch fluid as well. It's brand spankin' new feeling.
  
• Engine is very quiet. Although, I hear a slight hiss when I'm on the gas (any type of accelerating, I hear it, but nothing when at a constant speed or idling). Might be a slight vacuum leak w/ the intake or maybe a tiny exhaust leak. Will look when I get home.
  
• Power delivery seems slightly "bumpy", in that it used to be very smooth from 2000-7100 rpm, but now seems to have a few very slight "hiccups" along the way. Might be something to do with the possible vacuum leak(?). Also, might have something to do with engine break-in, etc... I'm not 100% sure but will monitor it over the next little while.
  
• VTEC still engages, and seemingly stronger than before by a decent margin.

Anyhow, I'm pretty happy that everything seems 99% OK, and also the fact that I got a few things done because of this, that otherwise would have cost me a lot of $$ (trany flush, clutch fluid, maybe even a new clutch - I don't know, but it feels DAMN good and strong now, and not to mention, the fresh engine!).

I'll keep everyone updated as to how things progress and how it gets broken in in the dayts and weeks to come.

I'll also try and poke and prod with the tech's at Camco Acura to see what exactly was causing the oil to be burned so constantly in the first place. I think this will benefit all other TSX owners who might be having oil consumption problems.

Eric

 

Are you going to break-in the engine the aggressive way, have you already done it?

 

hehe, looks like the aggressive way, since he already hit up 7100rpm after he picked it up. That's great news curls, hope everything is back to normal for your baby.

 

I will be doing so on the way home. Back roads home always equal fun.

I only drove 8km from the dealership to my workplace, varying speed, some freeway. Thus, she ain't broken in yet.

 

I better start checking my oil. I'm just glad for you this happened before 100K.

 

Good for you Eric. Glad to know it works well now. Can't wait to see the digression and final diagnostics.

 

Which way did you break it in the first time?

 

Used car, so I don't know. BUT, I can speculate that since the previous owner lived a long way away from downtown, and had a boatload of km's on the car (72,000 after 2 years), that it was probably broken-in on the highway at a constant-ish speed.

 

ugh the downside of used cars. I'd always wonder about the treatment from the prev owner. At least the dealership took care of it.

 

hey at least acura replaced it free. vw woulda charged you ~$9,000, and still kept your change.

 

Congratulations! My car also has a lumpy power profile. It's normal at 1000-2000rpm, get a little bump at 2100rpm and accelerates a bit harder up to 3500rpm where after that it pulls hard all the way up to 7100rpm. At 6000rpm, I can't feel the cam change, even in 1st gear but I can hear it. And I consume zero oil. Just checked again at 4 months, my level is still slightly above (1mm) the max hole, the same as when I just serviced.

 

I took it for a few moderate runs tonight (grocery-getting has never been so fun until I got this car, I swear!). I think the "bumpy" power curve is working itself out, and has something to do with the reset ECU and it learning my driving style again.

I'll see how it behaves in the coming days.

 

Yes. I remember my TSX was pretty rough with it's power delivery when I was breaking it in, then it progressively smoothed out.

Whenever it gets rough now, I know there's probably an O2 sensor going to hell.

 

Speaking of O2 sensors... what kind of emissions warranty do we have and does it cover the O2 sensors?

I don't have to get an emissions test until 2007 (late, 2007), but, might get one sooner if the warranty on the catalytic, the sensors, etc... is nearing expiry. Why? Because those parts are mucho $$ and I'd rather Acura pay for it (since the oil burning likely fouled them and/or clogged the catalytic, meaning it was a problem before the emissions warranty expired).

BTW: Still nothing in the mail from Camco. I will report back once I get something in writing as to the cause of the consumption.

 

nice! free engine rebuild!!

nothing like a fresh virgin engine to break it in nicely!! if you plan to keep the car for a long time, spend your time breaking it in...

 

UPDATE

I went in today to have a minor exhaust leak looked at / fixed. Turns out the gasket between the header and the exhaust pipe was kinked. They slapped a new one on there free of charge.


Now, for the good stuff:

I talked with Cameron, their head tech and the guy who did my entire rebuild.

He was very thorough in telling me what exactly was changed, why, and what the actual cause of the oil consumption was.

What caused the consumption:

Poor break-in (on-highway break-in), coupled with poor initial servicing (ie: Previous owner went too long w/o changing oil initially, causing sludge build-up).

What the EXACT problem was is this -- the oil control ring (bottom of the 3 piston rings) was all stuck with carbon. Oil sludge gets into the "wave" pattern that is sandwiched between two flat pieces of the ring, and then gets so hot that it turns to hard carbon pieces, causing the oil control ring to not move freely, thus, oil continually seeps past the ring and into the combustion chamber. ALL 4 cylinders had this problem, and all 4 had "washing" on part of the top of the cylinder. That means that enough oil was getting past that it wasnt even able to be burned off properly. :o There was no vertical scratching of the cylinder walls, so no foreign debris caused the damage. It was purely sludge that gummed up the oil control ring and thus permitted lots of oil to pass into the combustion chamber.

The 2 compression rings were basically perfect (replaced anyways), and the valve seals were basically perfect (replaced anyways).


What was changed, and why

1. Piston rings. Why? Obvious. Included honing of the cylinder walls and a thorough cleaning of the head.

2. Valve seals. Why? Because they had the head off, not because the valve seals were worn at all.

3. Timing chain and tensioner. Why? KNOWN PROBLEM with the TSX and most K-series engines: Timing chain stretches over time, causing the tensioner to go beyond its service limit. They replaced both of these because of this known issue, NOT because it was a cause of the oil consumption.

4. Valve adjustment. Why? Because they had to.

5. All gaskets and seals in the engine (master gasket kit, includes valve cover gasket, head gasket, intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, etc...)

6. Cleaned and serviced clutch and clutch master cylinder, changed tranny fluid. Why? Because they had to drop the engine and tranny out of the car anyways, so they did this as part of the job. No wonder the tranny feels silkier than before!

7. Head bolts. Why? Because you must use new ones when doing that work.

8. Miscellaneous other things (like a VTEC solenoid valve that broke when reinstalling - replaced free of charge obviously), as well as fluids, etc...


My Satisfaction

Very satisfied.


So, there's the news and the exact cause of the problem. Shouldn't be an issue anymore, and the car feels like a million bucks. I am thoroughly impressed by the knowledge that Cameron (and Mike Neville) displayed to me, and the thorough attention to detail they had with my car (like the non-warranty items they still fixed because of a possible future problem).

 

to Acura. And congrats on a (basically) new engine. It really brings home the importance of engine break-in and timely servicing.

 

Wow, that could explain quite a few of the oil consumption issues that the other TSX owners have. Great writeup!

 

Interesting. Very nice CS from Acura and GL on that rebuilt engine.

 

I bet you the previous owner believes in 10K oil changes and dino oil.

 

i knew highway break in wasnt good...lucky i took it the slow way...

 

That means, if you have carbon buildup from poor break in, oil sludge will compound the problem and make the oil consumption apparent. If you carry out your first service earlier, you can catch it before the sludge builds up (the initial fill from factory will cop a lot of the metal shavings from breaking in).

 

Not necessarily - nobody mentioned how long it was until previous owners' first oil change, but the tech made it sound like he did the research and it was well past the 8K km interval.

 

Interesting. Interesting. If the first owner followed the "normal" schedule the first oil change might have been done at 10K miles. Perhaps Acura needs to rethink the recommended oil change intervals.

 

Canada = severe condition intervals. That means 8K KILOMETER intervals (5000 miles).

Plus, driving highway probably doesnt clean anything out (low throttle all the time), so sludge probably builds up quicker than normal. Not to mention that he probably was lax on his oil change schedules all the time, not just the first one.

 

Bad news for me then. I do timely services, but my mileage is mostly highway, and 90% of my break-in mileage was highway, even though I made a point of varying the speeds, it probably wasn't good enough.

 

I think, when the tech said "highway break-in" that he meant a constant speed and RPMs for an extended period of time. If you vary your speeds and RPMs then it should be OK.

When I picked mine up brand new it was from a dealership 120 miles away from home. I had to drive it back on the freeway but I made sure to be in SS and vary the speed, or gear, every 2-3 minutes all the way up to 3000 rpm those first 120 miles. It was a PITA to do but I've been rewarded with an engine that gets great mileage and doesn't consume any oil.

 

In all states other than California/Maine/Massachusetts/Vermont, we only have 4 years / 50000 miles (2004 & 2005s) for most emission parts. Except the following:

Catalytic Converters . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8yr/80000 miles
Engine Control Module/Powertrain Control
Module (including Barometric Pressure
Sensor and Software Updates) . . . . . . . . .8yr/80000 miles
Throttle Actuator Control Module. . . . . . . . . . .8yr/80000 miles

 

Yeah, Canada is 5 yrs / 130,000km. Found that today.

Thanks though!

 

Forgot to tell you in my post.

Although my engine drinks a lot of oil, I still get incredible gas mileage, and the power is still very much up there. In fact, I can't say I've noticed any power decrease at all.

 

Don't mean to high jack this thread, but you did mention you are hearing a hissing sound when stepping on the gas peddle. I have this same problem with my TSX. When I was given a TSX loaner, that car had the same problem too. Is this related to the exhaust leak?

Thanks!

 

My hissing was caused by a round (doughnut) metallic-flex exhast gasket. I believe it would go at the tail end of the header. They replaced it no charge.

 

The hissing sound that I am hearing is some where in the engine area or just behind my navigation console. I guess this could be the same thing. So did the sound stop completely after the fix?

Thanks

 

Almost exactly what you described, is what I heard.

And yes, completely gone. It was a "flex-braid" type gasket, about 4-5" in diameter (mind you, it was somewhat crushed, so I don't know what the "uninstalled" size might be).

Actually, I found the part in my service manual: It's either the upper or lower gasket for the A-pipe of the exhaust (the pipe right after the header collector). My guess is its the upper gasket as that's where they'd have to have disconnected the exhaust from the car to hoist the engine out.

 

Another update:

The car has burned 1 litre of oil in just under 1000km since the rebuild.

I am almost certain the engine is completely screwed (most likely a problem with the block itself, possibly something along the lines of the cylinders being either over the bore limit, or our of round. Since its a very early production run block (# 32 off of the assembly line), I'm pretty sure this might be the case.

I will be bringing it up with the dealer this week.

I want a new engine, not just a new block, etc... This is getting rediculous. I can't blame Acura customer relations nor my dealer for this, however. It's likely a machining problem from day one.

 

Wow, bad luck Curls. At least they can't put the blame on anyone else other than the guys that did the rebuild or the engine itself. Hope you get a new engine! (Hope that they don't have any spare 05' engines lying around and give you the 205hp 06' instead).

 

UPDATE

*** Short block on order from Montreal warehouse ***

So I took the car in today, 975km since they last topped and noted the oil level. (I was supposed to go in at 1000 but I'll be travelling all day for work tomorrow, so today was better )

The car was officially down exactly 1.4 L of oil in 975km. :o :o :o

So, within 15 minutes, the main tech had Acura Tech-Line on the phone, and a new short block on order from Montreal (or Toronto - there's on in each city). Should be here tomorrow or Thursday.



They said that since everything spec'd out ok in the head a few weeks ago, they didn't need to order the long block. I am satisfied I suppose, with the ordering of a short block.

Does anyone know exactly what will be in the short block? Is it JUST the block, or is it block, pistons, crank, bearings, etc... ? What will be re-used from the existing engine (aside from obviously the head) ?

Thanks all!!
Eric

 

I believe you'll be receiving the complete lower assembly, from which they will bolt on your current head.

Looks like you'll have a permanent solution then.

 

Yep it's the block and everything in it.

 

Wow. Looks like it took a little doing but Acura seems to be doing whatever necessary to get the problem fixed.