GreenMM

This is new to my TSX as of Sunday morning. Driven it about 220 miles or so since CEL (MIL) started flashing all the time.
Since November I had mostly a solid CEL on. That was the post cat 02 sensor code.

This time around, Sunday morning, the idle was rough, the car seemed under powered.

Tonight power seemed way down, and my fuel mileage has gone from about 28 mpg to probably 20 or less.

I had started thinking this was an ignition problem and more specifically a failed coil as I've had two go out on separate motorcycles on me.
Feels a lot like that - with a larger sized car engine.

I am planning to buy 4 new NGK Iridium IX plugs tomorrow first thing (my first half day off since Sunday) and install them.
Are there any ways to test a coil with a DVM (voltmeter)?

I could do that while doing the plugs. If plugs don't work i'll probably buy a new Honda K engine coil and try that.

Thoughts on this?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you could trouble shoot coils by unplugging the clips/harness/pigtails one by one while the engine is running.
if engine note/noise changes, you have the suspected coil

GreenMM

I've never worked on a car or truck with coil over plugs. But the motorcycles I've fixed were both I4 and had two coil packs that had twin HT leads to cylinders 1 and 3, and cylinders 2 and 4.
This system is one stick coil over each of the four plugs (right?)
So if I am detecting a P0303 "cylinder 3 misfire" wouldn't that indicate #3 coil if it's a coil problem at all?

Do you mean try to swap, say, coil 3 with 4 and see if the engine runs the same (poorly) or even worse or better?
The moto coils you could do some baseline Ohm resistance testing on to get an initial idea if the coil was fried or not. ok Ohm Ω testing did not always mean it was fine, but it was an easy place to start.

I'm also closest by far to a Honda dealer, not the crook Acura dealer quite farther away. Thinking about getting a "30520-RWC-A01" part which is for the TSX according to lookup but I assume also went in the following:2002–2008 Honda Accord Type-S(JDM)10.5:1200 hp; 150 kW @ 6800 RPM171 lb·ft (232 N·m) @ 4500 RPM7100 RPM[c]6000 RPM2003–2008 Honda Odyssey Absolute10.5:1200 hp; 150 kW @ 6800 RPM171 lb·ft (232 N·m) @ 4500 RPM7100 RPM[c]6000 RPM2004–2005 Acura TSX10.5:1200 hp; 150 kW @ 6800 RPM166 lb·ft (225 N·m) @ 4500 RPM7100 RPM6000 RPMRBB2006–2008 Acura TSX
[3]

Hoping it went in other Honda models as well, like perhaps a similar year 2.4L Accord US version??
The funny thing is, with all that plastic covering the head, I haven't even been in there yet. I don't get the current trend of plastic wrapping engines.

GreenMM

Yay! I almost certain I figured it out.
The 2nd from driver side cylinder #3 is the issue.
I have a spark tester and tested the coil out with it. No spark.
Swapped #4 coil with #3 coil.

And, #3 lead to coil sparked the #4 coil substitute, AND the car ran like udder shite, I'm now running on 2 cylinders (and I mean this with #3 coil installed into the #4 cylinder.)

So I'm off to the stealership to plunk down full list of $117.88 as all four dealers around charge same to get a new OEM one and install.

GreenMM

Fixed! It was #3 ignition coil that failed. $117 at the dealer and 5 minutes in the parking lot and she's back running great!

green_henry

If you run into any issues with your remaining coils, I'd suggest swapping them out with a set of Accel Super Coils (140311-4). I've been very happy with mine, and they're a lot less expensive.

TexasHonda

Coil failure can result from excessive spark plug gap (old plugs). A new set of plugs may be indicated.

good luck

GreenMM

Thanks guys!
good to hear a non OEM cheaper but reliable alternative. $117 per coil is pretty stupid expensive if you're doing them all.

I did not know excessive gap can trigger coil failure. Good to know.
I will install a new set soon as it's been either 80K or 120K since done last (I forget)

​​​​​​​

GreenMM

Of course I'm very curious about this ignition coil.
I had two very unpleasant 'incidents' with this car in last 1.5 years. I think (hope) it was the coil going south.

I would also very much like to figure out if the ignition coil had caused any issues with the rear (post cat) O2 sensor before.
I thought I read there is an easy way to re-set the CEL, by pulling a specific fuse.
I know I can disconnect the battery for several hours.
Fuse?

Thanks

thoiboi

A poor condition ignition coil can cause unburnt fuel to go into the exhaust and mess up the o2 sensor..


Also you only need to unplug for 15 minutes, not an hour.. Or get a OBD2 scanner and do it in 2 seconds.

GreenMM

The other earlier CEL I've had on awhile is the P0420 code. I am not sure if that's stored anymore (?) When I drove car to AutoZone to have the codes read they said only the P0303 was saved. I hope that's right!
(After installing new coil the flashing CEL went to solid CEL like it was before).

When I went to the dealer the parts guys said the cats rarely fail on these TSX.
He also said he thought it was crazy when people replace 6 of 6 ignition coils when one fails and also stated that ignition coil failure is quite rare.
I find it interesting to learn that worn out spark plugs can trigger coil failures.

I guess I will just pull the battery terminal then. I thought I had read you could simply pull a fuse in the fuse box and it would instantly re-set it.


Green Henry: Is that coil part # for a TSX you drive? Or other Honda product? Thanks.

GreenMM

If interested... here's what the car sounded like before I replaced the coil. It's the 2nd half of this video (which also shows my mystery squeak near the crank / PS pump area).

GreenMM

I'm wondering about having driven about 300 miles on the TSX i4 engine with only 3 cylinders firing.
Specifically, will this engine shut down the fuel injector if it detects misfire / no spark in cylinder #3 while driving?
OR was a simply dumping raw fuel into and thru a non firing #3 cylinder the whole time?

And... can a temporary / momentary misfire either damage the cat or post cat 02 sensor?

I ask this because I had two other 'events' with this car. One was two summers ago where the car would almost not start, then ran horribly, and had big loss of power. After about 5 minutes idling while parked it resolved itself. In hindsight, I think the car was running on 3 cylinders then. And then it went back to running on all four for the next 18 months and 15,000 miles or so.
It might have been around that time the CEL starting lighting and the post cat 02 sensor was the code.

The second 'event' happened about 10 days before the #3 coil completely died. I had started and idled the car looking for an oil leak and the car really bogged down and ran like hell and then blew some smoke out the exhaust when I gave it heavier throttle and would not rev over 5000 rpms, like it hit a wall electronically or fuel cut rev limiter type of feel almost - really just completely bogged down feeling.

When I inspected the plug on cylinder #3 it was not wet, look unusual or smell of fuel. The engine had not been run since the night before however. I also did not smell fuel anytime driving it on 3 cylinders, and also not when I shot the video of the exhaust pipes running on 3 cylinders either.

TexasHonda

While I have heard that some cars cut fuel to a missing cylinder, I don't know if TSX is one of those. A flashing CEL is recommended by owner's manual for immediate attention so damage may occur if not addressed.

good luck

GreenMM

I'm curious if the TSX has a fuel cut.
If not, it likely dumped fuel into the cylinder for 300 miles which I gather would have overheated and failed the cats.
But I was having that P0420 code before the ignition coil completely sh*t the bed.
Whether the coil had some intermittent failures before complete failure I'm not sure.

mars

Hi Thanks for great info.
I got the CEL few days back and my OBD Scanner showed the message P0304. I am planning to replace the Ignition coil and the Spark Plugs.

I am planning to order the Beck/Arnley Ignition coils. Has any one has used those. The reviews i found seems to be good.

If any one used after market OEM ones could you please post which brand did you order and your experience.

Appreciate any feedback.

green_henry

I installed a set of Accel Super Coils ~2 years ago and one of them has already failed, so while performance is fine, reliability is not. In a pinch, I replaced it with a Duralast from Autozone and it seems to work fine; too early to say whether it's reliable.

TexasHonda

Honda coils are likely much better than aftermiarket.

Suggest swapping No 4 w/ No 1 COP and see if problem cylinder moves w/ coil. If yes, then replace COP w/ new Honda COP. If problem miss stays w/ No 4 then a spark plug, injector or wiring problem.

good luck

GreenMM

Interesting update green_henry. I read your suggestion too late last spring and was kind of kicking myself for not getting a cheaper option.
The dealer OEM Honda set me back $117, but perhaps it's worth spending if other die early.
I have put very little mileage on that car since I fixed the cylinder #3 ignition coil. But it runs fantastic when I can run the car.

mars

Thanks a lot for quick response "TexasHonda" & "green_henry".

I have already ordered a set of Beck/Arnley coils. I will install one on Cylinder 4 and sees how it goes.

Thanks again.

mars

Hi All,

While i was waiting for my parts to arrive, in the mean time i switched the coil 4 with coil 2 and tried to turn on the engine and the vibration is still there and when i ran the OBD Scanner now i am getting two codes P0302 and P0304 !!

Does this mean the Spark Plugs on 4 as well as coil 4 went bad. Any way i am planning to replace all spark plugs and all coils and see how it goes.

Thanks

TexasHonda

It's possible that a bad coil on #4 fouled the plug and both cylinders (2 & 4) now miss. FWIW, coil failure is usually associated w/ excess spark plug gap.
'
good luck

mars

Yes i replaced the Spark Plugs on Cylinder 2 & 4 and installed new ignition coil on Cylinder 4 and the problem went away. No vibration and car started just fine and took for a test ride and everything is as usual.

I am waiting for the other coils to arrive and as soon as they arrive i am replacing the rest of the coils.

The Beck/Arnley fir nicely. I took a another one from local advance auto parts ( CarQuest brand) from and it didn't fit the slot to insert the screw is at a weird angle and it won't let the wiring socket plug into the coil as there is no room.

I used my OBD Scanner to clear the stored codes after the test drive.

Thanks for your valuable suggestions.