gocubsgo55

i was going out this morning to pick up my dad's dry cleaning this morning when i found something. On the left side of the bottom of the driver's seat, where the perforated leather ends and the traditional leather starts, i see some wrinkles. that was just fine, thats normal, but not small tears in the leather! they are very small but obvious cuts it seems in he same line of the wrinkes. if you look at it its like someone took a small swiss army blade and made quick slices at the leather. if i remembered right there were 2-4 of these cuts. my dad says were taking it in to the dealer, but can they do anything about and is it covered under the warranty?
thanx

TSriX

First, it isn't leather, it's vinyl.

I have lots of wrinkles in that spot because of getting in and out of the car and it is more shiny than the rest of the seat because of the rubbing. It stands out quite a bit and bothers me a little (the longer I own the car the less crazy I seem to be about the problems I have).

Explain the "cuts" better. How long, how deep?

dnl2ba

The perforated part is leather. The rest is vinyl.

TSXhopefull

what color leather shows the most wear out of the three?

gocubsgo55

the cuts are not very deep, not very wide. they are about an inch long. again, it seems like someone lightly sliced at the material with a small jackknife. thanx 4 the responses

cruiserchuck

I have the same problem from rubbing against that part of the seat when getting in and out of the car. I believe that it is leather there, not vinyl.

Proo

So it sounds like it just wore out due to usage? Is there anything out of the ordinary about how you use the car? Do you have pointy things in your pockets or wear hockey gear while driving?

Sorry, I don't know the answer, but please let us know what the dealer says..

TSriX

Again, that part is vinyl. The only real leather on your seats is the strip with the perforation in it.

Is it truly a cut or is it what I see on mine that I would characterize as a wide crease with tiny creases in it. Can you spread them wider?

ECsteve

My CG Qtrz 6sp non navi is 1 month old and I just discovered a small tear in my back seat like the ones you are mentioning. It is a very fine tear, about 1 inch long, between the perforated holes. Definitely not caused by me (99% sure), it looks like it came that way from the factory (very fine tear, a straight line between the holes, hardly visible)-
Curious as to the cause, the fix, or if it is ok to leave as is (if it does not worsen)-

gocubsgo55

yea that is exactly what i was talking about. i where flush, non jagged clothing. im not one of those rocker punks with chains and metal objects hanging all over lol. but anyway, thank you for the feedback, when i get to the dealer and recieve the news, ill let you guys who are interested know.

slats

We've got some very knowledgable people disscussing how to take care of your leather in the Car Wash forum -- just to let you all know.

Slats

virtualbong

Ok, so I should get vinyl maintenance products to use for the vinyl part and leather maintenanace products for the perforated leather parts. Ok, just to make sure, the only leather in the car is the perforated areas?

DJDZ

Yes, only the perforated parts (with holes in them) is leather and the rest is really good fake stuff.

MarkPinTx

The entire seating area of the TSX seat is leather, not just the perforated parts.

Noobs!

Kighter

Sigh.

We have this debate every month. There is no official word.

1. All agree that the perf area is leather.

2. Some think the rest of the seating surface (the "thick" non-perf part) is leather as well. I'm in this camp based on my experience with detailing my seats and how they handle the products I use.

3. All agree that the sides and back are Vinyl.

So use Leather on the perf and Vinyl on the back and sides. Decide for yourself what the non-perf thick areas are and use what you want.

cconrad

There is actually an official word on this. I wrote to Honda Canada via the owner email function on the Acura.ca web site. They told me that the only leather in the car is the perforated stuff. Everything else is vinyl. I saved the original email if any still doubt.

Also, I then wrote to one maker of car care products, though some of you will probably tell me that they are bad car care products. Anyway, the folks at Armor All say that you can use their leather protectant spray even on the vinyl areas, and that it contains the same UV protectants, etc. This makes it much simpler: One spray, one rag, etc. The only disadvantage is that it costs more, because it also contains leather nutrients. Also it has a lower shine, but that is an advantage in my opinion.

CDR

Here we go again ...

Regardless of any official word, I'll take the expertise of a leather and vinyl repair person with 15+ years of experience who had to repair my dashboard on my 04 after a dealer "incident" during radio replacement:

- All the main seating surfaces, both perforated and solid, are leather.
- The sides, back, and bottom skirts of the seats are vinyl, as is the top of the center console.
- All of the front headrests are covered in leather
- As I recall, only the front facing of the rear headrests are leather, the rest of the rear headrest (which is the top of the seat) is vinyl.
- The leather is pigment coated, part of why the difference in appearance is subtle.

This repair person showed me how he can tell, confidently -- the leather and vinyl respond differently when pushed with a fingertip, there's a distinct difference in feel and appearance (to him, and to me as well). Try it yourself! (On my car, the leather is noticeable stiffer, and flex lines are different).

Why do I bother putting this in the forums again? You need to use leather conditioner on the leather to keep it in good shape over time. I second the comment that the surfaces respond differently to the leather conditioner or vinyl cleaner.

Alin10123

Holy thread revival again!

jerzpwr

wow i just hate when that happens to leather seats. kinda reminds me of cheap mustang leather seats.

Alin10123

yea... seriously...
Just be sure to use lexol on the perforated portions and 303 protectant on everywhere else.

cconrad

Fair enough, but then why would Acura tell me otherwise? You'd think they would be happy to brag about more leather. Is it possible that the '05s are different?

dontcare4urshyt

i think whatever your body touches in the seats is leather. I had vinyl seats in a Jeep and they didnt wrinkle like the leather on these seats do. Every car i had with leather did wrinkle. I think if its not wrinkled its vinyl. Seating surfaces are leather everything else, vinyl

cconrad

Hmm. So the people who answer the email for Acura.ca are misinformed? I'll check with them again.

But another question: Why would knowing exactly which parts are leather really matter? Since you can use a leather protectant on the vinyl parts of the seat too (at least according to one manufacturer of these products), it would be safe to treat the entire seating area as leather, right?

STL

Based on the leather in my S2000, I think that is correct. Some people have incorrectly interpreted that only the perf'ed part is leather.

STL

EXACTLY!

cconrad

How could I incorrectly interpret what Acura told me outright? Anyway, like I said, what does it matter. Apply leather products to it all; it won't the vinyl bits, right?

STL

I wasn't specifically talking about you, but exactly how did you phrase the question and what exactly was their response? In addition, it could very well be that the person that answered you're question simply looked at a press release than mentions the perf'ed leather and incorrectly assumed the only leather in the car is the perf'ed section. Honestly I don't think Honda/Acura uses their "best and brightest" and/or "most informed" people to answer email questions. Heck, for all we know if was just some intern.

I don't know...read the label on the stuff you're using.


I think the TSX has a full leather seating surface because:
1) that's how it is the S2000
2) vinyl doesn't wrinkle like leather and people are seeing the non-perf'ed areas wrinkle
3) why would Honda use two different vinyls to cover the seats
4) making only the perf'ed part leather seems rather silly -- if you do that you might as well make the entire surface vinyl

cconrad

I don't have a record of how I phrased the question, but it was something like "I've heard that only the perforated portion of the seats is leather; which surfaces in the car are leather and which are vinyl?"

Here is the answer:

However, I have asked a follow-up question in much more detail, using CDR's post on Tuesday, asking about the apparent discrepancy in information out there. We'll see what they tell me.

Chad

Arcticcl9

This has been discussed ad nauseam in these forums.
Perforated parts of seats: Real Leather
side bolsters of seats: Synthetic leather (but it's not vinyl)
backs of seats: vinyl

curls

Synthetic leather is vinyl, sorry.

And I am 99.99% sure from my car, that the perforated AND bolster areas are real leather. The sides (facing door or console) are vinyl. Look at the seam -- DEFIANTELY two different grains (leather, vinyl). Also, the pure feel of the two areas, and the way that vinyl is stickier/thinner feeling, is a sure sign that the outer sides are vinyl, the bolsters and perforated areas are leather. I'd bet good money on this if someone wanted to do an experiment.

Arcticcl9

Synthetic leather is made from polyurethane, while vinyl is made from polyvinyl chloride (or more commonly, PVC). They are similar, but not the same

youngTL

The side bolsters of the seats (I've seen them many times) seem to be the same material as BMW's "leatherette". It's not vinyl, you don't quite stick to it the same way. It's a pretty good material IMO.

Bill Hook

FWIW, I've never seen a leather seat that didn't have leather "seating surfaces," meaning that whereever you park it, the parts that touch you are leather. My Integra has leather seating surfaces as does my mother's TL-S. A lexus LS430 has leather just about everywhere, as far as I can tell.

jkochis

Here's a product to make it easy to do since it protects both with same product...

http://www.properautocare.com/blinpr.html

JayRoam

Wow, now i'm confused more than ever. If the bolsters are leather, I'd like to use leather conditioner on there just like i use on the perforated surfaces instead of just 303 like i do with the other vinyl surfaces.

David Bobbitt

I have an '05 tsx with parchment color interior. I have a problem with the lower back of my seat being discolored. I think this may be due to silk slacks that have not been dry cleaned yet.

I have tried using Lexol cleaner. It is effective on all but the area that I just mentioned. Is there anything better than Lexol that I may can use?

I don't want my new car to look old!

cconrad

Ah, so the bolsters are not leather after all, but they're not vinyl either? How confusing.

By the way, here is the latest in my attempts to see what Honda/Acura knows:

Here is the answer back:

I have since examined the materials more closely as suggested by other forum members, and I agree that the side bolsters etc. appear to be a different material from the more obviously vinyl backs and sides. But is it leather? I asked a follow up question of Philip:

I'll let y'all know what he says.

FrankO

I had the same problem, I use the 2004 TSX for work only, No back pockets full of gravel or knives. I had small tears originating from the seat perforations, it started at about 3k miles, very small tears but numerous. At the same time I had a noise in the seat track when I was making a right turn, it was like the seat was traveling laterally on the track and hitting a stop. They replaced the leather seat covering and the track under warranty . The total cost would have been $1,450 , I looked on his warranty repair receipt sitting in the car when they brought it out to me. The new seat leather is still going strong with no more tiny tears .

skidder

All this confusion arises from the fact that car companies charge extra for leather, leading people to believe it actually costs that much more. The fact is a high quality vinyl such as "IZIT leather" is almost as costly. Plastic is an engineered material and cost varies tremendously. High quality plastics wear as well leather, breath well and are far more resistant to sweat and stains. It is not necessary to use such high quality multi-layer plastics in low wear areas, so less expensive formulations are used to reduce costs for areas such as seat behinds.

The plastic leatherette in BMW and Mercedes is superior to leather in most ways, except for traditionalists who are willing to pay more for a natural material, even though it is highly processed and full of nasty chemicals. It has a certain smell, unmatched by polyurethane. Leather starts to wrinkle with age, and looks clearly different. Some enjoy that genuine leather look, it implies wealth and luxury. Many treated and colored leathers dont breath any better than plastic, the reason perforated leather is used. Both should last the life of the car without any further treatments. Only cleaning with a damp cloth is needed. Spend your car fluids money elsewhere.

I read a PR release from Acura saying they dont use vinyl in the TSX. Ive noticed the new car vinyl off-gas film that developed on my other cars on the inside glass surfaces
isnt appearing on the TSX. I breath better knowing that.

cconrad

What you say about using different quality levels of plastics in different areas makes sense. Here is what Philip at Honda Canada told me in his most recent reply, further to my post #37 above:

However, he continues to use the word vinyl. Are you suggesting that the covers are not vinyl, but some other plastic? (And what about the dash, etc.?) It seems the engineers don't tell the PR people much.