The ultimate TSX/ Reliable M3-eater
06-27-2005, 03:34 PM
#41
Photography Nerd
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
LOL. Check this video out. Acura ITR vs. M3 w/ SMG....
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1238788
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1238788
2672lbs / 270hp = 9.89lbs/hp
3415lbs / 333hp = 10.25lbs/hp
Close, but the ITR definitely has the edge. It also looked like the M3 was carying a driver to do the filming so you can probably tack on another couple hundred pounds.
06-27-2005, 04:38 PM
#42
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there is a passenger in the ITR as well.... i bet the fat bradster prolly weighs more than both passengers in the M3, so the unfair advantage once again goes to bmw yet bmw still loses
06-27-2005, 07:16 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
That ITR has 235WHP so it's probably around 270 crank.
2672lbs / 270hp = 9.89lbs/hp
3415lbs / 333hp = 10.25lbs/hp
Close, but the ITR definitely has the edge. It also looked like the M3 was carying a driver to do the filming so you can probably tack on another couple hundred pounds.
2672lbs / 270hp = 9.89lbs/hp
3415lbs / 333hp = 10.25lbs/hp
Close, but the ITR definitely has the edge. It also looked like the M3 was carying a driver to do the filming so you can probably tack on another couple hundred pounds.
200 hp 166 lb/ft tq
0 to 60 in 8.1 seconds
16.1 quarter @ 89 mph
183 ft. 70 to 0 braking
0.88 / 0.83 Cornering L/R g
3232 lbs
60 / 40 weight dist F/R
Stock Lb. per 1 HP: 16.16 Lb
2001 BMW M3 6MT 3.6L I-6
333 hp 262 lb/ft tq
0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds
13.4 quarter @ 105 mph
162 ft. 70 to 0 braking
0.92 / 0.88 Cornering L/R g
3480 lbs
51 / 49 weight dist F/R
Stock Lb. per 1 HP: 10.45 Lb
TSX HP needed to match stock M3 Lb. per 1 HP: 309.28 HP (considering no weight gain on mods, assuming lighter tire/wheel combo and removal of spare tire will compensate for addional performance mods). There is a possibility of some overall weight reduction.
06-27-2005, 07:23 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
That ITR has 235WHP so it's probably around 270 crank.
2672lbs / 270hp = 9.89lbs/hp
3415lbs / 333hp = 10.25lbs/hp
Close, but the ITR definitely has the edge. It also looked like the M3 was carying a driver to do the filming so you can probably tack on another couple hundred pounds.
2672lbs / 270hp = 9.89lbs/hp
3415lbs / 333hp = 10.25lbs/hp
Close, but the ITR definitely has the edge. It also looked like the M3 was carying a driver to do the filming so you can probably tack on another couple hundred pounds.
200 hp 166 lb/ft tq
0 to 60 in 8.1 seconds
16.1 quarter @ 89 mph
183 ft. 70 to 0 braking
0.88 / 0.83 Cornering L/R g
3232 lbs
60 / 40 weight dist F/R
Stock Lb. per 1 HP: 16.16 Lb
2001 BMW M3 6MT 3.6L I-6
333 hp 262 lb/ft tq
0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds
13.4 quarter @ 105 mph
162 ft. 70 to 0 braking
0.92 / 0.88 Cornering L/R g
3480 lbs
51 / 49 weight dist F/R
Stock Lb. per 1 HP: 10.45 Lb
TSX HP needed to match stock M3 Lb. per 1 HP: 309.28 HP (considering no weight gain on mods, assuming lighter tire/wheel combo and removal of spare tire will compensate for addional performance mods). There is a possibility of some overall weight reduction.
06-27-2005, 07:47 PM
#45
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Then there's this:
Gear M3 6MT TSX 6MT
1st 4.23:1 3.267:1
2nd 2.53:1 1.88:1
3rd 1.67:1 1.355:1
4th 1.23:1 1.028:1
5th 1.00:1 0.825:1
6th 0.83:1 0.659:1
Does anyone have formulas to figure in adjustment here? Dan?
Weight, HP, acceleration, and damn the gear ratios!
Gear M3 6MT TSX 6MT
1st 4.23:1 3.267:1
2nd 2.53:1 1.88:1
3rd 1.67:1 1.355:1
4th 1.23:1 1.028:1
5th 1.00:1 0.825:1
6th 0.83:1 0.659:1
Does anyone have formulas to figure in adjustment here? Dan?
Weight, HP, acceleration, and damn the gear ratios!
06-27-2005, 09:19 PM
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It might be possible to make the TSX faster and handle better than an M3, but then we also get into an issue of reliability. Can it last for several years straight without serious repairs? When adding that much power to an engine it's not just a matter of strapping a turbo to it and pumping in more gas. You tend to find lots of weak points, and end up doing stuff like busting connecting rods or drive shafts. The $3000 Turbo kit needs $3000 worth of other work just to keep the car running...
I have learned my lesson, buy power out of the box (it comes with a warranty too!), maybe add a few simple bolt ons to tweek it, but unless you plan to spend every weekend working on it to keep it running, don't go any further.
I have learned my lesson, buy power out of the box (it comes with a warranty too!), maybe add a few simple bolt ons to tweek it, but unless you plan to spend every weekend working on it to keep it running, don't go any further.
06-27-2005, 09:39 PM
#49
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talk to stokeless about that turbo kit for 5k, if it was that cheap it would have been done by now in a tsx if not multiple times...dont count the single one by hks which seems to be mostly a show car...
the issue is that those k24's is the drive by wire and replacing the drive by wire with one from a accord does not allow this car to be streetable, they mention you lose a few things like the instrument cluster, a/c, and VSA...they just used this setup with their k-pro to see what the engine could be pushed too and where gains can be made...helping them develop their reflash...
now whats the point of turbo'ing with that route when you lose features than make this a luxury car... it seems you would have to use a expensive engine management system and tuning which could cost you another 3-5k on top of the turbo kit and custom fabrication work which will be required for it to fit...
i forgot the name of the engine management system they use on the realtime cars but that should suit your needs...
the issue is that those k24's is the drive by wire and replacing the drive by wire with one from a accord does not allow this car to be streetable, they mention you lose a few things like the instrument cluster, a/c, and VSA...they just used this setup with their k-pro to see what the engine could be pushed too and where gains can be made...helping them develop their reflash...
K20 engine owners for the 02-04 Hondas and Acuras have the benefit of the K-Pro - a fully tunable stock ECU. When Honda introduced the TSX it updated the ECU [Engine Control Unit]. The only component in common with its predecessor was the connector plug! To date Hondata can modify the VTEC point; rev limiter, fuel, ignition and cam angle tables for a naturally aspirated TSX. As it will be quite some time before we have the same level of programmability in the TSX ECU as we have now in the RSX, we adapted the K-Pro for use in the TSX.
Connecting the K-Pro involved an adapter harness and an Accord throttle body to replace the drive by wire throttle body. The throttle cable already exists and just needs to be moved. A throttle cable holder for the manifold was fabricated, but probably could have been purchased for a Honda Accord. About 6 wires were run to read the throttle position and control the idle (functions that are automatically handled by the drive by wire) The downside of this conversion is that the instrument cluster, air conditioning and vehicle stability assist did not work. ABS was not affected.
Using the K-Pro in this way has allowed us rapidly test a combination of components to find what works best in what order for the TSX, but it is not suitable for everyday road use.
Connecting the K-Pro involved an adapter harness and an Accord throttle body to replace the drive by wire throttle body. The throttle cable already exists and just needs to be moved. A throttle cable holder for the manifold was fabricated, but probably could have been purchased for a Honda Accord. About 6 wires were run to read the throttle position and control the idle (functions that are automatically handled by the drive by wire) The downside of this conversion is that the instrument cluster, air conditioning and vehicle stability assist did not work. ABS was not affected.
Using the K-Pro in this way has allowed us rapidly test a combination of components to find what works best in what order for the TSX, but it is not suitable for everyday road use.
i forgot the name of the engine management system they use on the realtime cars but that should suit your needs...
06-27-2005, 09:44 PM
#50
Engineer
Originally Posted by DaveWhyman
It might be possible to make the TSX faster and handle better than an M3, but then we also get into an issue of reliability. Can it last for several years straight without serious repairs? When adding that much power to an engine it's not just a matter of strapping a turbo to it and pumping in more gas. You tend to find lots of weak points, and end up doing stuff like busting connecting rods or drive shafts. The $3000 Turbo kit needs $3000 worth of other work just to keep the car running...
I have learned my lesson, buy power out of the box (it comes with a warranty too!), maybe add a few simple bolt ons to tweek it, but unless you plan to spend every weekend working on it to keep it running, don't go any further.
I have learned my lesson, buy power out of the box (it comes with a warranty too!), maybe add a few simple bolt ons to tweek it, but unless you plan to spend every weekend working on it to keep it running, don't go any further.
just save up and get something out the box with the performance you want...thats what i plan to do in a couple years, thanks to the tsx holding its value so well...at that point you will have a new car with hot performance and lux, versus a few year old car or older body style with hot performance...
then again to each their own and good luck with whichever path you take...
06-27-2005, 09:54 PM
#52
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There will be challenges to get to quarter mile times like the M3, but I think this can be achieved retaining a fair amount of reliability by going the intercooled supercharger route. The engine still only will last about half as long, but for a Honda, that is a good 150,000 miles. I realize that internals would need to be strengthened, but it can be done. All I need is about 300-325 crank HP, putting 255-280 to the front wheels. Using the lightest possible wheel/tire combo and installing a good lightweight flywheel will help get the wheels turning a little quicker. 0 to 60 in ~4.7 seconds with a sub-13 second quarter mile. Just need to shave about 2 seconds off the 0 to 60 and should be fine in a fast, straight line.
06-27-2005, 09:54 PM
#53
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Who cares? The M3 still looks 100 times better. And lets not even begin tuning an M3 (better have deep pockets though). Any TSX can't even match the racing heritage or prestige of a M3. And FWD and high-performance is just 
, sorry. Burnouts will look and to even think about drifting is
No TSX can begin to look this menacing.
Pull up in a M3 and pull up in a modded TSX and watch the different reactions....
, sorry. Burnouts will look and to even think about drifting is No TSX can begin to look this menacing.
Pull up in a M3 and pull up in a modded TSX and watch the different reactions....
06-27-2005, 10:08 PM
#54
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^^ ditto above thread.
Although I don't know about the M3's suspension, I bet it's more complex (better) than the TSX. The double wishbone & multilink rear on the TSX is for a family/sports sedan, while the M3 is pretty much a pure sportscar, and I'm sure the engineering of the suspension is better than the TSX. What you have to realize is that while you can slap on springs/shocks and a sway bar, that's nothing like a sports suspension designed to be used "out of the box". I've got springs/shocks and sway on my Accord, but an M3 handles much better. 50/50 weight distribution, that's all to be said.
Although I don't know about the M3's suspension, I bet it's more complex (better) than the TSX. The double wishbone & multilink rear on the TSX is for a family/sports sedan, while the M3 is pretty much a pure sportscar, and I'm sure the engineering of the suspension is better than the TSX. What you have to realize is that while you can slap on springs/shocks and a sway bar, that's nothing like a sports suspension designed to be used "out of the box". I've got springs/shocks and sway on my Accord, but an M3 handles much better. 50/50 weight distribution, that's all to be said.
06-27-2005, 10:11 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by savage
if i planned on trying to get that type of power out of a car for a reasonable price i would have gone for an evo with leather and upgraded the interior with some luxury...
just save up and get something out the box with the performance you want...thats what i plan to do in a couple years, thanks to the tsx holding its value so well...at that point you will have a new car with hot performance and lux, versus a few year old car or older body style with hot performance...
then again to each their own and good luck with whichever path you take...
just save up and get something out the box with the performance you want...thats what i plan to do in a couple years, thanks to the tsx holding its value so well...at that point you will have a new car with hot performance and lux, versus a few year old car or older body style with hot performance...
then again to each their own and good luck with whichever path you take...
The G is a good choice but I am just going to want to mod the ish out of it and I want the GTR when it comes out. Buying an M3 would be the most obvious choice, but then it is just another M3. Besides, if and when I do buy an M3, I will probably supercharge that, too. It is never enough; no matter how fast I go I always want more speed.
The point is I might as well work with what I have right now, and continue to make the TSX new again and again as I continue to add more and more to the mod list...
06-27-2005, 10:24 PM
#56
Engineer
Originally Posted by jmf
I appreciate the kind words. I have looked at the Evo and G35 coupe as possible replacements for my TSX, but I just love the overall package in the TSX, especially for the money. I would never buy an Evo because of the very poor crash test ratings (kids) and if you drive like me you will be repalcing the clutch about every 15K...
The G is a good choice but I am just going to want to mod the ish out of it and I want the GTR when it comes out. Buying an M3 would be the most obvious choice, but then it is just another M3. Besides, if and when I do buy an M3, I will probably supercharge that, too. It is never enough; no matter how fast I go I always want more speed.
The point is I might as well work with what I have right now, and continue to make the TSX new again and again as I continue to add more and more to the mod list...
The G is a good choice but I am just going to want to mod the ish out of it and I want the GTR when it comes out. Buying an M3 would be the most obvious choice, but then it is just another M3. Besides, if and when I do buy an M3, I will probably supercharge that, too. It is never enough; no matter how fast I go I always want more speed.
The point is I might as well work with what I have right now, and continue to make the TSX new again and again as I continue to add more and more to the mod list...
you know you could keep the tsx and i dont know if it will work out for you financially but you could go out at get a S2000 and S/C that... a used S2k could be found for a deal and if you plan on S/C'ing it, it will blow the doors off most anything on the street...that way you got your safe, reliable and fun to drive TSX and then you have your beast of a S2k...its just a thought...
06-27-2005, 10:31 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
Who cares? The M3 still looks 100 times better. And lets not even begin tuning an M3 (better have deep pockets though). Any TSX can't even match the racing heritage or prestige of a M3. And FWD and high-performance is just , sorry. Burnouts will look and to even think about drifting is
No TSX can begin to look this menacing.
Pull up in a M3 and pull up in a modded TSX and watch the different reactions....
, sorry. Burnouts will look and to even think about drifting is No TSX can begin to look this menacing.
Pull up in a M3 and pull up in a modded TSX and watch the different reactions....
I don't want to drift my car, I live that to all the second owners of S2000s. As for burnouts, that just wastes gas and rubber.
06-27-2005, 10:31 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by AcuraGT-3
Who cares? The M3 still looks 100 times better. And lets not even begin tuning an M3 (better have deep pockets though). Any TSX can't even match the racing heritage or prestige of a M3. And FWD and high-performance is just , sorry. Burnouts will look and to even think about drifting is
No TSX can begin to look this menacing.
Pull up in a M3 and pull up in a modded TSX and watch the different reactions....
, sorry. Burnouts will look and to even think about drifting is No TSX can begin to look this menacing.
Pull up in a M3 and pull up in a modded TSX and watch the different reactions....
I don't want to drift my car, I'll leave that to all the second owners of S2000s. As for burnouts, that just wastes gas and rubber.
06-27-2005, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by savage
no prob man...i have a friend who is S/C'ing his G-coupe over the next week or two, so i can try to get some pics and info on how it turns out if you are interested, but yeah if a gtr is in your future plans, why waste your money on a G when you can put it towards the gtr...
you know you could keep the tsx and i dont know if it will work out for you financially but you could go out at get a S2000 and S/C that... a used S2k could be found for a deal and if you plan on S/C'ing it, it will blow the doors off most anything on the street...that way you got your safe, reliable and fun to drive TSX and then you have your beast of a S2k...its just a thought...
you know you could keep the tsx and i dont know if it will work out for you financially but you could go out at get a S2000 and S/C that... a used S2k could be found for a deal and if you plan on S/C'ing it, it will blow the doors off most anything on the street...that way you got your safe, reliable and fun to drive TSX and then you have your beast of a S2k...its just a thought...
Yeah, I have seriously considered an S2K. In fact there was a yellow one on Ebay a few weeks back that already had the Comptech supercharger. Unfortunately, it would have to be a second vehicle for myself because of my kids and I don't know if I can justify that right now (Plus my wife will throw a fit because she is about due to replace her RX300 with the RX330). The only way I could do it is if we shared the car because she wants a convertible for the summer, and quite frankly I don't like to share my vehicles. It is a good suggestion, and still not completely out of the question.
06-28-2005, 10:33 AM
#62
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To me, the TSX vs M3 is too much of an apples-to-oranges comparison. Since the TSX is a sedan, wouldn't the E90 330i be a better comparison? We might be able to reach the 330i's HP mark w/o forced induction.
I was originally in the market for an E46 330i ZHP, but the pricetag and lack of a 6-spd manual available in SoCal made it drop from my list early on. I also considered an E36 M3 sedan, but I figured most out there would have been close to 100k on the odometer.
Would the E90 330i be an option for you? It sounds like it fits your bill for a sporty sedan / family car. There back seats are more roomy now.
I was originally in the market for an E46 330i ZHP, but the pricetag and lack of a 6-spd manual available in SoCal made it drop from my list early on. I also considered an E36 M3 sedan, but I figured most out there would have been close to 100k on the odometer.
Would the E90 330i be an option for you? It sounds like it fits your bill for a sporty sedan / family car. There back seats are more roomy now.
06-29-2005, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Type X
ok your heavily modding your tsx to beat an m3
lets say the m3 you race is ALSO heavily modded
BAMN
you just wasted all that $
lets say the m3 you race is ALSO heavily modded
BAMN
you just wasted all that $
Who can think of a better way to spend money than by modding the TSX?
06-30-2005, 05:24 PM
#65
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Originally Posted by taewlee
if bmw makes the ultimate driving machine, has tons of teams willing to fix it up, has tons of drivers willing to race for it, why do they keep losing to one acura team?
06-30-2005, 05:35 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by bz268
Hmmm.. didn't they put additional weight to the bimmers so the slower cars can race with them? Like those +5, +20, etc marker on the bimmer's windshield...
06-30-2005, 05:45 PM
#67
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Originally Posted by bz268
Hmmm.. didn't they put additional weight to the bimmers so the slower cars can race with them? Like those +5, +20, etc marker on the bimmer's windshield...
06-30-2005, 05:54 PM
#68
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Originally Posted by xizor
Unfortuantely many of the best BMW teams aren't racing in Speed World Challenge this year for whatever reason. Bill Auberlin is AWOL after winning it the last 2 years, so it might not be BMW's best out there, but they're pathetic so far.
It might get interesting next year with the E90s.
06-30-2005, 07:03 PM
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16 out of 40 cars is pretty damn competitive to me, it looks as if bmw is trying really really hard to win but they cant....
interesting with E90's? I think they will fall further behind with a heavier larger 3 series.
bill auber only won those 2 years because the RSX did not perform as well the type R and last year was TSX's rookie year. Anyways, there's a good chance our TSX might be the next R and beat bimmers, mercedes, audi's, mazdas, dodges, subarus, nissans, and ford's for the next 9 years straight.
I'm crossing my fingers that the TSX will dominate for many years over snobs like bmw in reallife racing with realtime racing...
interesting with E90's? I think they will fall further behind with a heavier larger 3 series.
bill auber only won those 2 years because the RSX did not perform as well the type R and last year was TSX's rookie year. Anyways, there's a good chance our TSX might be the next R and beat bimmers, mercedes, audi's, mazdas, dodges, subarus, nissans, and ford's for the next 9 years straight.
I'm crossing my fingers that the TSX will dominate for many years over snobs like bmw in reallife racing with realtime racing...
06-30-2005, 07:06 PM
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and why the heck are there so many bimmer lovers in this forum? if you love 3 series so much over the TSX, trade in your T for a 3, get the hell out of here, and go to a bimmer forum crawling with snobby dumbasses.
06-30-2005, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by taewlee
and why the heck are there so many bimmer lovers in this forum? if you love 3 series so much over the TSX, trade in your T for a 3, get the hell out of here, and go to a bimmer forum crawling with snobby dumbasses.
I say go ahead. Put on a full Mugen kit, lightweight wheels, super sticky tires, figure out a way to get 300+ hp, tighten up the handling and have a ball. You'll have a car that everyone respects - at least for the amount of work that went into it. There's always going to be somebody faster or tighter in turns or more exotic. Who cares, if you can afford it go ahead.
I'd love to watch someone on this forum take up the quest...
07-01-2005, 12:55 AM
#72
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Originally Posted by jmf
Who said anything about stock? The idea here is to MOD a TSX so that it can hang with a STOCK M3 off the line and around the curves, that's it. There are tons of modded Hondas/Acuras that can do that already.
BTW if you're interested I'm taking deposits on the video to help pay for my mods so I can smoke the M3.
BTW if you're interested I'm taking deposits on the video to help pay for my mods so I can smoke the M3.
no matter how you do to your TSX it is not going to be faster than a M3 stock, or outhandles M3 stock
and the money you spent afterall will be more than a M3
need to say more?
i have no idea what you are thinking of smoking the M3 in a TSX, it's just unrealistic
07-01-2005, 01:03 AM
#73
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Originally Posted by taewlee
and why the heck are there so many bimmer lovers in this forum? if you love 3 series so much over the TSX, trade in your T for a 3, get the hell out of here, and go to a bimmer forum crawling with snobby dumbasses.
TSX is gd, but not even in the leauge with M3
07-02-2005, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bz268
Hmmm.. didn't they put additional weight to the bimmers so the slower cars can race with them? Like those +5, +20, etc marker on the bimmer's windshield...
I really enjoyed watching the 2004 season when the TSX and 325i could race more or less fair and square. This year, I haven't watched a single race - there are no bragging rights to beating the Bimmers this year.
Remember Harrison Bergeron...
07-02-2005, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by fedlawman
It's not just REWARDS weight. The BMW's were saddled with pretty heavy handicaps before the 2005 season even started. They have added ballast in the nose to eliminate their 50/50 weight distribution, -400 RPM rev limiters, and throttle body restrictor plates.
I really enjoyed watching the 2004 season when the TSX and 325i could race more or less fair and square. This year, I haven't watched a single race - there are no bragging rights to beating the Bimmers this year.
Remember Harrison Bergeron...
I really enjoyed watching the 2004 season when the TSX and 325i could race more or less fair and square. This year, I haven't watched a single race - there are no bragging rights to beating the Bimmers this year.
Remember Harrison Bergeron...
07-02-2005, 10:30 AM
#78
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Originally Posted by xizor
When Kleinubing and Cunningham have 250lbs of REWARDS and BMW still isn't competitive, what makes you think of those changes would help. The problem is Bill Auberlin isn't around for BMW.
Actually, it's not just Bill Auberlin who's missing from BMW's line-up. 2004 season runner-up Nic Jonsson, as well as James Sofronos, Justin Marks, and Bob Stretch are all MIA this season as well.
Could it be they saw the writing on the wall before the season even began? I know I'd have serious reservations about trying to advance my racing career in a handicapped car. It'd be like entering the Olympic 100 yard dash wearing combat boots and a gas mask.
07-02-2005, 10:44 AM
#79
Bye TSX, hello domestic?
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Originally Posted by fedlawman
Those changes are the reason why Kleinubing and Cunningham were able to EARN that REWARDS weight in the first place.
Actually, it's not just Bill Auberlin who's missing from BMW's line-up. 2004 season runner-up Nic Jonsson, as well as James Sofronos, Justin Marks, and Bob Stretch are all MIA this season as well.
Could it be they saw the writing on the wall before the season even began? I know I'd have serious reservations about trying to advance my racing career in a handicapped car. It'd be like entering the Olympic 100 yard dash wearing combat boots and a gas mask.
Actually, it's not just Bill Auberlin who's missing from BMW's line-up. 2004 season runner-up Nic Jonsson, as well as James Sofronos, Justin Marks, and Bob Stretch are all MIA this season as well.
Could it be they saw the writing on the wall before the season even began? I know I'd have serious reservations about trying to advance my racing career in a handicapped car. It'd be like entering the Olympic 100 yard dash wearing combat boots and a gas mask.
Take a look at the 2004 results link. 4 BMW overall wins, 5 Acura overall wins
Auberlin is racing this week at Lime Rock and he turned the fastest qualifying (link ). Why can he do it and none of the other BMW's can? There's nothing wrong w/ the BMW cars, its the teams and drivers.
07-02-2005, 11:49 AM
#80
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Originally Posted by xizor
250lbs is 250lbs, I don't see your point. Yes they earned it, but Kleinubing has won 3 races in a row. And Kleinubing and Cuninngham left everyone far far behind at Cleveland with a ton of weight.
Take a look at the 2004 results link. 4 BMW overall wins, 5 Acura overall wins
Auberlin is racing this week at Lime Rock and he turned the fastest qualifying (link ). Why can he do it and none of the other BMW's can? There's nothing wrong w/ the BMW cars, its the teams and drivers.
Take a look at the 2004 results link. 4 BMW overall wins, 5 Acura overall wins
Auberlin is racing this week at Lime Rock and he turned the fastest qualifying (link ). Why can he do it and none of the other BMW's can? There's nothing wrong w/ the BMW cars, its the teams and drivers.
The ballast, rev limiters, and restrictor plates are having no effect on the BMW's.