JTso

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, right.

jlukja

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Just did a quick edit.

Tsx536

RaCeR4LiFe022

or i coulda been how much i tried to feell it hahah who knows...

simplyscion

so has anyone actually logged any IAT's yet from this mod? I have a Greddy Informeter from my last car that i should try to hookup to this car and do some testing

kaliraver69

I went to ACE today and several of other places and I ended up buying a flare 5/16 elbow. Will this work for this mod? If not in what section did you guys get your part in ACE hardware store?

gdcwatt

Maybe it's just me, but I find the dbw lag in the shift from 1st to 2nd is less when the engine is cold. Does this mod make any significant change to this problem; is drivability improved when the engine is warm?

n1ke5h

I went to ACE today and got a straight connector. I have an '06 and I did not need an elbow connector or anything extra for the bypass because the tubing was long enough for the straight connector. However, me nor the guys working there could find the caps for the throttle body. Is it ok if I leave it without caps or should I do something about it?

n1ke5h

I just realized that it said he got the caps from Autozone. Regardless, do I need the caps or is it just for aesthetic purposes?

moda_way

It is just to prevent dirt from getting into that part of the TB so when/if you return it to stock, you don't put dirt into the coolant lines. Duct tape works fine as a temp solution.

jlukja

xizor

I don't know about you, but when I return to stock, I'm not putting the TB tubes back, not worth the mess

junktionfet

Way back when I was a dealer tech for Audi, this topic of heated throttle bodies came up in a training seminar. One of the engineers stated that its real value was for extended high speed driving in cold climates.

It goes without saying that in order to maintain high speed, the throttle has to remain open for longer periods of time and at greater angles. Also, due to high speed, very cold air, heater usage, etc.,the coolant thermostat may short-cycle, resulting in considerably lowered radiator temperatures (thus minimizing the warm air hitting the intake manifold)

During this time, the heat that has saturated the intake plumbing at idle and low speed will dissipate. The air travelling though the plumbing and throttle body will become very cold, near ambient temperature in some cases. These are the conditions for which the heated throttle body is necessary--and it is a real concern, otherwise the engineers would not have invested the time and effort in engineering the solution.

In North America I really doubt this would ever be a concern unless you live in Nova Scotia and do a lot of sustained high speed driving during the winter.

jimbo3123

That makes a lot of sense. However, I don't think that you need to live in Canada for this to be a concern. It gets mighty cold in a big part of this country (Wisonsin/Minnesota/MT/WY/Dakotas) that I wouldn't want to drive in the winter there with this mod. That said, most TSX drivers probably will never venture to places like that in the winter.

I occasionally drive through northern Michigan and Canada and go on major road trip ski vacations every year, so this mod is probably not for me (Although I've been thinking about doing it with 3-way valves that could be easily switched to bypass mode and back)

outersquare

I'm not sure I understand the significance of what you're getting at. So in certain situations, the intake charge approaches ambient temperature. This is a problem why?

I had to take off my TB bypass myself, the car wasn't idling right any more. I have a K24A4, so the throttlebody setup still has the IACV or whatever.

aaronng

When the ambient is below freezing it's a problem. The throttle butterfly actuator might get sluggish.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I think the coolant lines on the TB is mainly for emissions purposes instead of keeping the throtte from freezing. If you follow the same line, it also heats up the PCV system inlet line.

Here are my thoughts...

1. The coolant doesn't get hot or even warm to serve any heating function when the engine is initially started. So the lines are still cold, especially if the outside is freezing cold.

2. Freezing point is 32 degrees F. If the under hood temp is above 32 F, TB freezing is not a problem. The engine and exhaust manifold will put out heat above 32 F very quickly.

3. Not everyone waits for the engine to warm up before driving. So, if the coolant line is for heating purposes, many people would be at risk if they simply start and go.

4. The TSX TB is drive-by-wire. The throtte plate is not rotated by a cable connecting to a cam like non-DBW TBs. The throttle plate is rotated by a motor and the return is managed by a very strong return spring.

5. I did a freezer test on the TB and all moving parts worked flawlessly.

aaronng

^^ Hmm, then why would they want to warm up the throttle body? Also, by the time the coolant was warm, the intake manifold would have been hotter than the coolant.

How would warming the TB and PCV inlet improve emissions? Hotter combustion increases emissions. When first started, the coolant is not warm enough to provide any benefits to reduce emissions during cold starts.

junktionfet

True, the throttle body will be more apt to freeze when the engine is first started, however the relatively horrible thermal efficiency of a spark-ignition engine will ensure that the coolant collects some heat from the engine pretty quickly, thus raising it above freezing in short order. If you start driving immediately, the coolant temperature will rise above freezing exceptionally fast. It all works out in the end.

Thus, the short period of time that the throttle body will remain chilled is probably a design tradeoff, and a hell of a lot less trouble than electronically heating the throttle body. Note that some cars actually have heating elements around the throttle shaft for that purpose.

And regarding the PCV circuit--PCV systems harbor a great deal of condensation. The reason why it is heated by coolant is so that the condensation doesn't sit there and form ice crystals. Imagine what would happen if the system got clogged with frozen crud.

junktionfet

Did you actually read what you quoted from me, or just the sentence about ambient air temperature?

outersquare

yeah i did, so the intake, throttle body, and intake manifold approach ambient temperatures in certain conditions. So what? Besides the freezing the TB stuck or whatever.

moda_way

I wish I would've remembered that one. LOL

junktionfet

Context clues... What would the ambient temperature be in the context of my post?

I'm curious why you say "besides the freezing...". Where do you get the "besides" from? There is no "besides". I'm not sure what else I can say or how much simpler I can state it. All you need to do is read from start to finish, in sequence. It is a complete thought composed of several sentences.

outersquare

because I was hoping you going through all that effort writing your essay, would have some new insight, besides something that was already covered. Sorry I was mistaken.

junktionfet

Unfortunately there is no hidden meaning, sorry.

I was just contributing to the context of the discussion--there were concerns from people in cold climates so I wanted to cite an example of the conditions under which the heated throttle body might really be necessary, and help those who were unsure feel more (or perhaps less) confident about their plans to implement the bypass.

KapVu

[/QUOTE]

I'm about to do this mod, but to clear up the air. In the second picture, I see how you cap off the coolant valve to the first hose, but the bottom hose when you did the bypass, did you cap that one off too?

Also the two hoses are the one on top and bottom of the TB right? for a 2004.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Yes on both questions.

moda_way

If you have a compressor, CAREFULLY blow a small amount of air in there to clean out any residual cool. I also sprayed some water in there via a syringe then blew the water out. Just a minor addition to the instructions, but definitely not critical.

KapVu

What happens if you don't do that? I don't have a compressor but can I use can air, the kind you use to clean computers?

moda_way

My step is just to insure that whatever leftover coolant doesn't turn to residue. Again, not a critical step.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I also flushed the coolant chamber before capping off the nipples. It doesn't hurt anything if you don't.

peter_bigblock

Has anybody figured out why the Acura engineers went out of their way to circulate coolant through the throttle body? Emissions sounds like a theory, based on routing to the PCV as well. Why, though?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Bringing this back to address the question and here is the official answer from Honda.

Has anyone experienced problems during freezing cold weather after the mod?

moda_way

Absolutely not, 2 yrs running strong, though last winter was a very mild one in Ohio. I'm also one of those guys who starts the car and goes. I don't do any warm ups unless I have to take my son somewhere.

super4

i agree, not only honda, but most cars have it set up this way, my maxima did too, and guys with maximas had the same threads. i think this mod makes no difference whatsoever. also would guess doing it will not cause any damage.

kinda like the oil catch can, wouldnt the negeneers of all makes add this to the design if it was needed, common it would cost 2 dollars!

clee109

As JTso has pointed out this coolant is ran through to prevent the throttle plate from sticking in freezing weather. Other than that, it serves no purpose, there is no way that heating the throttle body would decrease emissions. However; there are many states in the US and around the world that have freezing weathers and these people do park outside of a garage and the throttle plate COULD stick and that'd be bad (duh), so Honda engineered this fix along with many other auto companies.

For the oil catch can, manufacturers have to cut corners somewhere, I am sure if you look hard enough you'll find other areas too.

As far as this the TB bypass is concerned, I did this mod and it works great, easy and cheap too! Took all of 10 minutes to complete it and this includes tear down and putting it all back together. But if I see some freezing weather coming up and foresee myself being out of a garaged environment in this weather I will probably reroute the coolant through the TB for those months just to error on the safe side! So +1 for JTso

ruffellprefley

the white fluid chamber that sits right in the front of the engine bay. that's where the antifreeze is stored, correct? it's been about 5 days since i've done the mod, and it looks like it's below the min line. while i was performing the tb bypass mod, i lost a lot of coolant, but i checked the level and it looked like it was halfway between max and min. is it possible that i've connected something wrong?








is this correct?

anyone know why my fluid might be significantly lower than when right after i performed the mod?

i've capped off the two nozzles on the TB with those vacuum caps. and those are the only 3 hose clamps that i touched. the two that you have to take off of the TB and the one in the 2nd picture.



help please!

p.s. should i buy honda brand antifreeze or does it matter as long as it's the right mix?

moda_way

All you need to do is put an elbow into the inlet to the TB and connect the other end of the elbow to the one leading out of the TB? Not sure what you are doing from the pics above. Yes, fill up with Honda fluid. You wouldn't have lost that much to make a difference if you were quick. If you lost a lot, then fill up as soon as possible.

ruffellprefley

i've got an '06 and i think i followed eutari's directions well enough. but wanted to double check.

if i didn't do it right, wouldn't i know it by now (other than the fluid loss?) i checked under the car and there wasn't any coolant on the ground beneath it. maybe the lack of fluid in the reserve tank is due to the fact that the coolant that came out during the mod was in the lines. and the lines are now full of fluid again (from the reserver tank). this is what i'm hoping.

i just stopped by my honda dealer, and for $13 got a gallon of type 2.


(E-15-10 are what are capped off and unused now... on my TB.)



and from the 3rd picture. i think i made my start and end labels reversed. i'm not sure which direction the fluid flows through the line.