RSX 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th gears swapped FINALLY!
06-11-2006, 01:06 AM
#1
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RSX 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th gears swapped FINALLY!
After weeks of waiting for parts to arrive, I finally got the RSX-S 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears swapped into my TSX. 
I plan on taking some video within the next few days and posting it here. However, I have a feeling it won't do much justice to the actual feeling of the car now.
DIFFERENCES
The main reason I wanted to do this mod was due to my dissapointment in the 1-2 upshift in the 6MT. As you can see in the gear ratio table below, the TSX has the longest 2nd gear out of all the 6MT K-series motors:
After replacing the referenced gears, I pretty much have the equivalent ratios of the 2006 Civic Si. Previously, not even the help of a Hondata reflash would give me consistent upshifting where I can stay in VTEC. Now, the 1-2 upshift at 7000 RPMs lowers me only down to around 5200 RPMs where I have much more power on tap.
All of the other upshifts with the exception of 5-to-6 are much closer as well. To no surprise, the 5th-to-6th upshift falls off drastically allowing me to retain a cruising/econo gear. Another advantage gained was the improved passing ability of my new 5th gear. I rarely will have to do the ol' 6th-to-4th downshift.
The most surprising change was the improved cruising drivability. The TSX is now able to give me more power during stop and go situations where I'm not screaming the heck out of the K24A2.
DISADVANTAGES
I now have some error in my speedometer due to the speedo gear spinning much faster now. I estimate the reading shows 5-8 MPH faster than the actual speed. Hopefully I can learn how the fix this.
Additionally, I have to get my car aligned. When the tranny was removed, many components had to be removed and the steering rack couldn't be placed back to the factory setting. Looks like I'll be forking up another $60.
NO LSD, FLYWHEEL, AND CLUTCH
I decided to stay with the stock differential after taking into consideration that I rarely drive my car to its limits. With the clutch, I have concerns of drivability while stuck in SoCal traffic. A lightweight flywheel gave me concerns of harsh engine braking. Lastly, skipping the 3 saved me close to $1500.
Overall, I'm very impressed with the results. The cars is much more fun to drive now. Those curious about this mod should be prepared to spend over $1200.
I plan on taking some video within the next few days and posting it here. However, I have a feeling it won't do much justice to the actual feeling of the car now.
DIFFERENCES
The main reason I wanted to do this mod was due to my dissapointment in the 1-2 upshift in the 6MT. As you can see in the gear ratio table below, the TSX has the longest 2nd gear out of all the 6MT K-series motors:
After replacing the referenced gears, I pretty much have the equivalent ratios of the 2006 Civic Si. Previously, not even the help of a Hondata reflash would give me consistent upshifting where I can stay in VTEC. Now, the 1-2 upshift at 7000 RPMs lowers me only down to around 5200 RPMs where I have much more power on tap.
All of the other upshifts with the exception of 5-to-6 are much closer as well. To no surprise, the 5th-to-6th upshift falls off drastically allowing me to retain a cruising/econo gear. Another advantage gained was the improved passing ability of my new 5th gear. I rarely will have to do the ol' 6th-to-4th downshift.
The most surprising change was the improved cruising drivability. The TSX is now able to give me more power during stop and go situations where I'm not screaming the heck out of the K24A2.
DISADVANTAGES
I now have some error in my speedometer due to the speedo gear spinning much faster now. I estimate the reading shows 5-8 MPH faster than the actual speed. Hopefully I can learn how the fix this.
Additionally, I have to get my car aligned. When the tranny was removed, many components had to be removed and the steering rack couldn't be placed back to the factory setting. Looks like I'll be forking up another $60.
NO LSD, FLYWHEEL, AND CLUTCH
I decided to stay with the stock differential after taking into consideration that I rarely drive my car to its limits. With the clutch, I have concerns of drivability while stuck in SoCal traffic. A lightweight flywheel gave me concerns of harsh engine braking. Lastly, skipping the 3 saved me close to $1500.
Overall, I'm very impressed with the results. The cars is much more fun to drive now. Those curious about this mod should be prepared to spend over $1200.
06-11-2006, 03:24 AM
#4
Wowsers.....nice work my man. What a great mod.
Trending Topics
06-11-2006, 10:48 AM
#9
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Nice work. That's a lot of money to fork over to get it done though. I think this is one mod I can resist doing. 
06-11-2006, 10:53 AM
#10
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by CarbonGray Earl
Wowsers.....nice work my man. What a great mod.
Which reminds me -- I asked the guy who did the install (Josh from clubrsx.com aka 'drivetofast') how my 2nd gear looked and he said, "Looked like you grinded her a few times."
I immediately thought of that run with you in the car where I grinded the crap out of 2nd gear.
06-11-2006, 12:08 PM
#12
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by JTso
Nice job on the mod! I would have to test drive it before considering doing something similar. Let me know whenever you are in town.
Actually, I was hoping you'd chime in. I'm not too sure how the speedo works on the TSX. Although Josh had explained it to me, I lost him. I've read that the TSX uses a digital signal from a pickup sensor which is read from 3rd gear. If I remember correctly, the 3rd gear is tied to a speedo gear, right? Since 3rd is spinning much faster now, my MPH is reading higher.
Do you have a suggestion to correct this? Would K-pro help if/when it's available?
06-11-2006, 12:29 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
Only if you were closer. Your ride is definately one of the most I'm interested in here on AZ.
Actually, I was hoping you'd chime in. I'm not too sure how the speedo works on the TSX. Although Josh had explained it to me, I lost him. I've read that the TSX uses a digital signal from a pickup sensor which is read from 3rd gear. If I remember correctly, the 3rd gear is tied to a speedo gear, right? Since 3rd is spinning much faster now, my MPH is reading higher.
Do you have a suggestion to correct this? Would K-pro help if/when it's available?
Actually, I was hoping you'd chime in. I'm not too sure how the speedo works on the TSX. Although Josh had explained it to me, I lost him. I've read that the TSX uses a digital signal from a pickup sensor which is read from 3rd gear. If I remember correctly, the 3rd gear is tied to a speedo gear, right? Since 3rd is spinning much faster now, my MPH is reading higher.
Do you have a suggestion to correct this? Would K-pro help if/when it's available?
06-11-2006, 01:29 PM
#15
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by joerockt
If I shift at 7300, 1-2 for me drops me right to 5000. With Hondata, wouldnt that still keep you on the higher cam? 
06-11-2006, 02:12 PM
#16
Just dial 1911
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Age: 49
Posts: 12,144
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
...ease it into gear at high RPM.
Intresting. So your saying if you shift at 7K now at a moderate shift, you end up at 5200K? Im trying to grasp how engine speed drop off has anything to do with gearing once the clutch is depressed?
Edit: Oh, and im not trying to be an ass
Just want to understand how this works...
06-11-2006, 04:51 PM
#17
Black_6spd, so are you planning on coming to the Redline event next month at Streets of Willow? Do you need an instructor? I'll be very very happy to help you.......so that I can try out the new gears. 
06-11-2006, 05:57 PM
#18
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Age: 49
Posts: 7,594
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
Only if you were closer. Your ride is definately one of the most I'm interested in here on AZ.
Actually, I was hoping you'd chime in. I'm not too sure how the speedo works on the TSX. Although Josh had explained it to me, I lost him. I've read that the TSX uses a digital signal from a pickup sensor which is read from 3rd gear. If I remember correctly, the 3rd gear is tied to a speedo gear, right? Since 3rd is spinning much faster now, my MPH is reading higher.
Do you have a suggestion to correct this? Would K-pro help if/when it's available?
Actually, I was hoping you'd chime in. I'm not too sure how the speedo works on the TSX. Although Josh had explained it to me, I lost him. I've read that the TSX uses a digital signal from a pickup sensor which is read from 3rd gear. If I remember correctly, the 3rd gear is tied to a speedo gear, right? Since 3rd is spinning much faster now, my MPH is reading higher.
Do you have a suggestion to correct this? Would K-pro help if/when it's available?
06-11-2006, 07:40 PM
#19
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by moda_way
If there is a gear that reads speed, wouldn't a simple transplant from an RSX into the TSX be the solution?
I'm going to spend some time over at K20a.org where swapping gears happens as often as one of us buying a tank of gas.
06-11-2006, 07:46 PM
#20
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by joerockt
Those words are foreign to me
Intresting. So your saying if you shift at 7K now at a moderate shift, you end up at 5200K? Im trying to grasp how engine speed drop off has anything to do with gearing once the clutch is depressed?
Edit: Oh, and im not trying to be an ass Just want to understand how this works...
Intresting. So your saying if you shift at 7K now at a moderate shift, you end up at 5200K? Im trying to grasp how engine speed drop off has anything to do with gearing once the clutch is depressed?
Edit: Oh, and im not trying to be an ass
Just want to understand how this works... 
Since I usually let go of the gas when shifting, the revs go back down probaly around 300 or so RPMs. For example, before I had the gearing done, shifting at reflash cutoff of 7600 RPM would be really like shifting at 7300 RPMs. There were instances where I'd do this and land only at 4600 RPMs or so. There are a bunch of other reflashed members complaining of this same drastic dropoff.
06-11-2006, 07:49 PM
#21
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by vwong
Black_6spd, so are you planning on coming to the Redline event next month at Streets of Willow? Do you need an instructor? I'll be very very happy to help you.......so that I can try out the new gears.
The event is sounding very tempting. I'm going to check how full the event is.
06-11-2006, 08:04 PM
#23
Just dial 1911
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Age: 49
Posts: 12,144
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
You're not trying to be an ass.... you're trying to be a Fucktard.
Since I usually let go of the gas when shifting, the revs go back down probaly around 300 or so RPMs. For example, before I had the gearing done, shifting at reflash cutoff of 7600 RPM would be really like shifting at 7300 RPMs. There were instances where I'd do this and land only at 4600 RPMs or so. There are a bunch of other reflashed members complaining of this same drastic dropoff.
Since I usually let go of the gas when shifting, the revs go back down probaly around 300 or so RPMs. For example, before I had the gearing done, shifting at reflash cutoff of 7600 RPM would be really like shifting at 7300 RPMs. There were instances where I'd do this and land only at 4600 RPMs or so. There are a bunch of other reflashed members complaining of this same drastic dropoff.
06-11-2006, 08:46 PM
#25
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by joerockt
Ok, I see, I think you meant 3000 right?. However I still dont get how gearing affects engine braking/winding down after the clutch is disengaged. Does the reflash make the engine spin down faster then stock?
I don't think the gears affect engine braking either. You simply land back on a higher RPM due to the new ratio. I was simply refering to the engine braking that takes place when you let go of the gas when you upshift compared to "holding" the RPMs when you powershift.
06-12-2006, 02:31 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Age: 42
Posts: 851
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by joerockt
Ok, I see, I think you meant 3000 right?. However I still dont get how gearing affects engine braking/winding down after the clutch is disengaged. Does the reflash make the engine spin down faster then stock?
NB: according to my calculations, with our stock gears the target RPM with Hondata would be 7600 * 1.88 / 3.266 = 4375, which would be lowcam even with Hondata, whereas target RPM with new gears would be 7600 * 2.13 / 3.266 = 4957 which is high cam
06-12-2006, 04:18 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
LOL. Where are you in SoCal? I'm in N. Orange County near Fullerton.
The event is sounding very tempting. I'm going to check how full the event is.
The event is sounding very tempting. I'm going to check how full the event is.
06-12-2006, 09:00 PM
#28
Racer
I was wondering when someone was gonna do this
I have been looking into this for some time now, but my car is so new that I don´t want to go into things like the trans or the engine just yet.
but this will definetely be on my top list when I start modding.
keep up the good work and good write up
I have been looking into this for some time now, but my car is so new that I don´t want to go into things like the trans or the engine just yet.
but this will definetely be on my top list when I start modding.
keep up the good work and good write up
06-12-2006, 10:13 PM
#30
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got the parts through a local Honda Mechanic who does installs on the side for people at clubrsx.com. It ran me around $500 for the syncros and gears.
I definately would recommend this mod to those looking to make the TSX more of a race-oriented car. If you're the type who shifts at low RPM the majority of the time, this isn't for you.
I definately would recommend this mod to those looking to make the TSX more of a race-oriented car. If you're the type who shifts at low RPM the majority of the time, this isn't for you.
06-13-2006, 05:24 AM
#31
Racer
Originally Posted by Black_6spd
I got the parts through a local Honda Mechanic who does installs on the side for people at clubrsx.com. It ran me around $500 for the syncros and gears.
I definately would recommend this mod to those looking to make the TSX more of a race-oriented car. If you're the type who shifts at low RPM the majority of the time, this isn't for you.
I definately would recommend this mod to those looking to make the TSX more of a race-oriented car. If you're the type who shifts at low RPM the majority of the time, this isn't for you.
did you have to change the syncros for this to work?
06-13-2006, 09:47 AM
#33
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jlukja
Black_6spd,
So how does the TSX feel with the new gears? Does it feel faster? By a lot?
So how does the TSX feel with the new gears? Does it feel faster? By a lot?
Even when the wifey took it for a spin on Saturday night she was impressed. And she usually gives me a hard time about my mods saying things like, "You paid $300 to just make you car louder," (shortly after I installed my CAI.)
As far as gas mileage goes, I'll keep everyone posted. I really can't make a comparo right now because I've been driving it like I stole it for the last 2 days, but I was still able to get 310 miles out of 14 gallons. Also, keep in mind my odometer spin about 8-10% faster from the new speedo error.
Although I think this mod has been the best to-date for my TSX, I wouldn't recommend it without I/H/R. I could easily imagine a stock 6000 RPM vtec crossover killing the fun.
06-13-2006, 02:20 PM
#34
Drives With Hands
Very interesting about the VSS error. Normally, it's just an encoder located somewhere on the driveline, like the transmission's output shaft. Thus it would not be affected by changing gear ratios. I guess it isn't like that on the TSX. Maybe the ECU conflates driveshaft RPM with engine RPM and uses a ratio thereof to derive vehicle speed?
It would be a programming issue in any case, as the speedo is electronically controlled. Maybe Hondata knows?
Sweet mod anyway.
It would be a programming issue in any case, as the speedo is electronically controlled. Maybe Hondata knows?
Sweet mod anyway.
06-14-2006, 09:36 AM
#36
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had bought the RSX-S 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears. However, he had alot of the other misc parts laying around from his past tranny jobs. Beyond the gears, I lost track of what else he swapped out.
You could PM him on the K20a.org or clubRSX.com boards. His SN is 'drivetofast'.
You could PM him on the K20a.org or clubRSX.com boards. His SN is 'drivetofast'.
06-20-2006, 09:45 AM
#37
VSA Rocks
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Update:
After filling up last weekend, I was able to observe my first tank with the new tranny. I got 340 miles / 13.2 gallons = 25.7 MPG! Keep in mind I have some speedo error.
After filling up last weekend, I was able to observe my first tank with the new tranny. I got 340 miles / 13.2 gallons = 25.7 MPG! Keep in mind I have some speedo error.
06-22-2006, 01:46 PM
#40
Rep'n Taxbrain.com
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: N. Cali-forn-i-a
Age: 44
Posts: 7,075
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
3 Posts
I'm probably at around the same as you MPG wise if I drive normally, about 25-25.5 mpg. I've gotten a little over 26 mpg before. If I drive it hard I get about 22-24 mpg.
I was actually down in Socal this last weekend for my sister's graduation. We had the parents SUV though
I was actually down in Socal this last weekend for my sister's graduation. We had the parents SUV though
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
JarrettLauderdale
2G CL Dynograph Gallery
5
09-21-2015 07:51 PM
