Dan Martin

That's still M3 teritory.

rmpage

I'm curious how much companies like Comptech do with their reflashes for their products. Specifically, whether they do the bare minimum to make the engine operable, or do they tweak it a bit to get the most out of it with the FI like Hondata does with NA. If it's the former, that really sucks to bolt on a $3000 compressor and have much less of a gain than you could if the ECU received maximum tweakage.

hondata

This dyno compares the wheel power of a supercharged TSX engine in an EP3 Civic to a supercharged K20A3 engine (the previous and stock engine).

This was done on the same dyno as the NA TSX.

About 140 hp more than stock and 75 ft pounds more peak torque.

The owner's website is here http://www.mrrocket.com/ep3.htm

This is an example of the R&D we do. The data here will be fed back to the supercharger manufacturers to help them develop products for the TSX.

The car runs a non intercooled JR supercharger from an EP3 modified to fit the TSX head.

- 650 injectors
- PRB RSX-S exhaust cam (smaller than a TSX exhaust cam)
- PRC Integra type R intake cam (bigger than a TSX intake cam)
- VTC mechanism modified to allow 40 degrees advance instead of 25 degrees
- EP3 throttle body

Xtremespeed2102

could be the third dyno they did... very unlikely there would be a 3 just randomly there, is that even an engine?

Stokeless_TSX

ok so it was the Si motor vs the TSX motor with the same supercharger and pulley set???

hondata

Power is at the hubs. The wheels are removed for this dyno, which typically dynos 10hp higher than a Dynojet. As has been said before look at the differences in power and torque. You cannot accurately compare different dynos' power figures.

hondata

Same supercharger. The TSX has a bigger crank pulley which spins the blower faster. We also used a 3.2 crank pulley (vs 3.8 for the 2 litre A3 engine) which also spins the blower faster.

When you supercharge a larger capacity engine you must spin the blower faster to maintain the boost level.

Here is the boost curve which ranges from 5 pounds at low rpm to 10.5 pounds at 7500 rpm. Solid yellow line supercharged TSX. Dotted yellow turbocharged RSX boost curve.

pawcio

ok this may be a dumb question but with the reflush that is now aveible can we supercharge the tsx and get the same results??

TinkyWinky

reflush






sorry.

Stokeless_TSX

*cough*reflash*cough*
:troutslap

RMATIC09

dzuy

damn! 325hp?!?!

whew!

RBB-A02 <- soon to be reflushed. haha (see post 167)

i see stokeless is big on troutslap now.

:troutslap

PrecyseStylez

184.6WHP at what RPM?? thats the question! And what does your power curve look like before you hit the 184.6WHP?? Probably nothing near what a tuned re-flash looks like...thats a whole different beast

Stokeless_TSX

184.6 at peak power it is a constant climb. I wonder what kind of power I would make with the reflash. Since I have the highest without it I should see the most with it. =) Don't hate man.

GSI

I can't wait to see how the reflash changes day-to-day driving. With the 5AT I find that it takes a hot second to get on cam. With the vtec engagement set to 5000 rpm I think we will definitely enjoy a better day-to-day driving experience. I can't wait!!

dom

I was thinking the same until Dan set me straight. This flash really doesn't change the car much until 5K. How often do you rev to 5K? Not that often from what I remember in my day to day driving.

TinkySD

I somewhat disagree. By comparing the stock curve to the plots with i/h/hondata there is a good 5-10lbft extra on tap between 2k and 5k rpms. That is definitely a difference one would feel. Remember the max torque increase you get with an intake is 10lbft at 4500 rpms and you can feel that. We don't know what parts of these gains from from the I/H and what parts come from the hodnata. I would posit that the increase in torque is actually from the hondata tuning and not the i/e as in comptechs own dynos it does not increase torque under 5k rpm more than a lb ft.(which means probably not at all)

FOr me this looks to be a great mod, pending some user verification. THe tsx craves more top end power, but I wasn't willing to sacrifice any torque below 3k rpms as that's where I spend most of my time on the freeway cruising. looks like hondata can offer what I want.

Xtremespeed2102

id hope u wouldnt be reving up to 5 grand every day..... you would be wasting a ton of fuel, now if hondata made the tuning somehow adaptive, it would know hey the throttle is to the floor change over to racing or something of that sort, and when your putting artound town under 3 grand ure getting better fuel mileage

dom

Hmmm, your right about the tourque. I was thinking HP.

:patientlyawaitsdynoswithoutheader:

For me it all comes down to what the mod makes without the header.

TinkySD

jlukja

+ 1

sauceman

I'm tempted to believe it would be almost as much.

dom

From the Header dyno's we've seen thus far I would agree. Probly 5-7HP extra. But in the end

Link To Comptech's TSX Dyno Page

TinkySD

Below 5k I would agree, as even the comptech "complete tune" doesn't make any more torque(in fact loses some).

Above 5k even with just the header you get a nice torque bump on the high cam. (stock 6k) Who knows what magic hondata can do without it. You will probably see similar peak HP figures but less area under the curve.

sauceman

But then again, maybe the stock ECU couldn't make good of the header, whereas the header could in fact be a critical part of the tuning of the reflash.

Then again, the 5000rpm high cam don't have much to do with the header...

Edit, Tinky beat me to it.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

That's the reason I went to something more effective despite it's popularity. You can clearly see gain across the entire rpm range, not just in the end.

Dan Martin

So many questions... can't wait until we see some dynos. How many of the guys that are jumping on the hondata bandwagon will have before and after dynos?

Dan Martin

Those are pretty respectable gains. It's a shame the DC header has quality issues even though they are easy to fix. The price is right, that's for sure...

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I'm all about working with real data. If I can get my spare ECU match up with my original key and immobilizer, I will spend the $ on the NA reflash just to get a comparison, even it means I have to pay again when the TC setup reflash or (hoping) the K-pro is available.

Stokeless_TSX

I am with Jtso on this one. I will save up though I spent all my cash on my rims and tires so it will be a few till I can get the Hondata.

Dan Martin

I'm really still not clear on what hondata said about the ECU and immobilizer matching up. I think they implied that you could get your dealer to do this but what does that mean? Is it just a matter of them hooking up the ECU to a tool and copying some data from the immobilizer or is it more involved than that?

My car is leased and I'm not sure if I'm going to buy it out at the end of the term. I'd still be interested in the mod if I could get a second ECU and swap out.

dzuy

to the hondata heatshield owners,

where did u buy from and how much?

TinkySD

THat's definitely a possibility. Without the header it's possible the flash won't make any extra power down low. I don't think that is likely, however.

Stokeless_TSX

www.dynospot.com 60 bucks. Its worth it.

dzuy

shoot.

i dont think it will be in by this week.

monday - car goes in shop, take out ecu
tues - ship out ecu to south florida performance
wed - ecu arrive at SFP, ship out to hondata
thur - hondata reflash, send to SFP
fri - SFP recieve. ship.

that means i wont recieve until next monday?

Stokeless_TSX

Well Dzuy even with Hondata you will still be slower than me. =)
:troutslap

dzuy

nah. i heard you shift like a grandma.

:troutslap

HEKURTSEHU

I am not familiar at all with the technical details.
I read the TOV article.

Questions:
1) How is fuel economy going to be affected ?
2) You guys are talking headers and CAI etc. -
How much good is this going to do on a totally stock car ?
3) I currently drive mostly local roads (40 mph), so my rev range is on average up to 4K. Do you think I can benefit from this reflash ? Can I get more torque ?

Thanks for your insights

Stokeless_TSX

Naw I would love to run with you smoke you with your hondata and me without =)

TinkySD

What they mean is you need a matched set of key, imobilizer and ecu. So just having a spare ecu won't work, you need a set of keys and imobilizer all matched with the same data on it which probably won't be cheap.