Hondata DIY addition and impressions
10-13-2009, 11:23 PM
#1
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
Hondata DIY addition and impressions
After reading many, many recommendations and impressions about the Hondata reflash here, I decided to use a week's vacation out of town (with my 2006 TSX 5AT garaged) to ship off my ECU etc to Hondata. It really wasn't hard to do this yourself. Trust me. ... Came back from the Caribbean with a cold, but that didn't stop me from reassembling it all the first day I was back.
DIY removal tips:
(Yes I took pics. Hondata's removal page is excellent, but there were a couple of tips I had. Some of the following pics are from Hondata with my annotations.)
Keep all your screws and fasteners in Ziploc/Glad bags. This seems a no brainer, but for some who don't do a lot of mechanical DIY work, this can save time and headache in reassembly. If you're REALLY anal, buy new screws from your dealer or an online parts store.
I had a hard time reaching in and disconnecting the ECU plugs. Use one hand/finger to press down the lock tab (on top of each plug), and user the other to ease the plug out. DON'T pull the wires -- a mishap pulling a pin/wire out of a plug will ruin your fun.
For some reason, I had the easiest time starting from the forward-most plug working back towards the shifter. The plugs are unique, so you can't plug one back in to the wrong port.
There's a metal tab with a wiring bundle fastened to it with a snap fastener. I couldn't get the fastener to release. I absolutely could not get the ECU to slide out between this metal tab and the structure above (HVAC plenum?) without bending the tab, so -- I simply removed the ECU from the driver's side. You have to really muscle the carpet down to provide clearance, but it was easier than endangering wiring bundles. (Make sure you have wiring and plugs out of the way on the passenger side when you reinsert the ECU.) Push the gas pedal all the way down (you've disconnected that battery and removed the ignition key, right?), and worked the carpet down and the ECU should slide out easily.
One of the screws for the bottom of the steering wheel column is different from the others. Remember which it is, or simply reinsert it partially while your parts are away. Getting the bottom cover off is easy, just be patient and keep moving it around as Hondata's page suggests. There's a metal part in there that you could bend if you wrench it out forcibly.
Getting it back on is another matter ... the screws are upside down (as are you), you have to line them up, get them all the way into the recesses. It can be frustrating. Just have plenty of light, and patience. Oh ... and I used an old cheat of putting a very tiny drop of Krazy Glue (cyanoacrylate) in the screw head, affixing it to the screwdriver, then threading the screw in. The driver will become unglued when you pull it or pivot it. Again, use VERY LITTLE GLUE. About a pinhead's worth. If you think you may not have enough, you've probably used too much.
There are two connectors around the immobilizer module, disconnect them and don’t yank the wires too much.
The two Philips screws (#14 in the parts breakdown; part no. 72118-ST7-003 on my 2006) fastening the immobilization unit) have REALLY badly cast screw heads. If you're not very diligent about applying pressure/torque to these screws, you can easily strip them out. I don't think you could get them out with vice grip pliers if you trash them. If there's ANYTHING I might've bought from a dealer and use new parts during reinstallation, it's these. They're only a dollar or two. (I believe these are #1-Philips screws while all others on this job are #2-Philips.)
Finally, some have affixed blue painter's tape to the ECU, immobilizer and valet key[2] and written their name on it. Not a bad idea, though I suspect the folks in Torrance don't have a bench full of units all loose and getting mixed up. I used my Dymo industrial labeler to put my name and the last 7 of my VIN on each as a more lasting identification. I also wrote "Hondata 09/2009" on the underside of the ECU when it was returned (not visible unless you remove it).
[2] Yes, Hondata just needs a key that starts the car, so you needn't send one of your black keys if you have a valet key.
(Yes, I will update the Hondata DIY thread with all this.)
The only other change I made to the car was removing a 7000 mile-old engine air filter and dropping in a K&N air filter that I use in fall and winter driving. (I use Acura/Honda blue filters during our nasty-a** pollen season.) I find the K&N's benefits are largely a plusebo, but some claim there's some improvement.
Now to driving impressions.
The first thing I noticed backing out of the garage and test driving (smoke test) in my neighborhood, is that the throttle is more responsive from a standing start. I can only guess this is a change that Hondata does (since the throttle is drive-by-wire), not just a byproduct of additional torque at 1200 rpm. Result: you have to be gentle with that gas pedal; there's no delay from applying pedal pressure to the car leaping forward.
One of the most annoying things about my stock car, and the primary reason I bought the reflash, is the clumsy VTEC boost at 6000 rpm. Accelerating in 1st, 2nd, even in 3rd, wide open throttle (WOT), that sudden increase in power and added spurt of engine acceleration was very distracting and the reason that I reached the redline engine governor by accident once. I actually felt it was a hazard. The reflash, as we all know, moves this VTEC engagement to a lower RPM, resulting in a smooth, near-linear power curve on WOT acceleration. Result? I can go to the redline (or the new Hondata redline) without any variances. BIG IMPROVEMENT. Any driver who takes the engine above 5500 rpm more than a few times a month really deserves this modification.
My GF's uncalibrated dyno-tach derriere reported that that car accelerates faster from 10 - 65 MPH. Could be subjective due to the driver, the expectation of a change (she knows about the mod), whatever. My own impression is that the engine accelerates faster and smoother from 5 - 70 MPH on test onramps that I "tested" with the stock ECU just before the mod. Again, this could be subjective due to the driver (no longer anticipating the stock VTEC engagement), or an improvement in acceleration characteristics attributable to the reflash. I've been skeptical of those who say "drives like a different car"[1] or "much more pull" but after a week of doing some WOT take-offs on the same places I've done it pre-modification, I can confirm the "much more pull" impression. Car goes like a bat outta hell on good, straight pavement.
[1] Part of this is possibly attributable to the touchy throttle at a standing stop, as mentioned. All of my highway tests have been done with the car rolling about 2-5 MPH in 1st gear, then "puttin' the spurs to 'er."
One benefit I was hoping for was increased torque/power at 65 MPH (roughly 2200 rpm in 5th gear, SportShift mode, if my memory serves), e.g. stomping the gas and making it to 75 MPH in < 5 seconds without shifting. Not much there. A little faster increase to 75 MPH, but nothing to raise eyebrows. (Okay, I haven't timed it.) Disappointing, but not much.
But there have been a few times in that past two years when I needed more speed, instantly, and downshifted to 4th, then 3rd, and got it. Yeeha, that's what I loved about the TSX from the first weekend I had it. After the reflash, the car practically jumps at 65 MPH shifting back to 3rd. That would confirm what's reflected in Hondata's dyno runs -- more power at peak rpms. Last night I needed to make a hole for someone merging in from the left (65 MPH zone), and did so in seconds with the drop to 3rd. Big smile here, big credit due to Hondata.
How about normal driving, or "chaffeur driving," like I do with my daughter? Other than that touchy throttle on standing starts, gentle acceleration and low RPM cruising are relatively unchanged. I can feel a wee bit power when it's running at 35 MPH in 4th or 5th gear and I step on the gas. I think shifting logic is more prone to downshift, so a gentler touch on the gas pedal is needed. But it still drives like a luxury car for passengers.
Like others I wondered about the mileage. Obviously mileage dove down for the tankful that was in when I did the mod and tested it out, due to lots of WOT driving (more than usual for me). My first 184 miles on a fresh tank, with some spirited, daily driving, turns out to have given me 27.3 MPG ... which is roughly my overall average during 16 months of data collection. (Yes, I use 91 octane or better, top tier gas and will continue to.) Second half tank refill (7 gallons) ... again, roughly 27 MPG.
Other 2006 5AT TSX' mileage data (yep, I'm the one in NC):
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG....rue&details=on
Verdict:
Add my voice to those who insist this is one of the first, best mods you can do to your 2004-2006 TSX. The inconvenience of garaging the car for a week can be mitigated, the difficulty of removing the ECU and immobilizer will recede in memory when you're done. Some pricey mods are a matter of taste (you and only you will see/feel the difference), but this mod is one that everyone who rides with you will notice.
Shout out to John Earl of Six Sigma Dyno Services & Tuning (www.SixSigmaDyno.com) for great communication and assistance throughout the process.
DIY removal tips:
(Yes I took pics. Hondata's removal page is excellent, but there were a couple of tips I had. Some of the following pics are from Hondata with my annotations.)
Keep all your screws and fasteners in Ziploc/Glad bags. This seems a no brainer, but for some who don't do a lot of mechanical DIY work, this can save time and headache in reassembly. If you're REALLY anal, buy new screws from your dealer or an online parts store.
I had a hard time reaching in and disconnecting the ECU plugs. Use one hand/finger to press down the lock tab (on top of each plug), and user the other to ease the plug out. DON'T pull the wires -- a mishap pulling a pin/wire out of a plug will ruin your fun.
For some reason, I had the easiest time starting from the forward-most plug working back towards the shifter. The plugs are unique, so you can't plug one back in to the wrong port.
There's a metal tab with a wiring bundle fastened to it with a snap fastener. I couldn't get the fastener to release. I absolutely could not get the ECU to slide out between this metal tab and the structure above (HVAC plenum?) without bending the tab, so -- I simply removed the ECU from the driver's side. You have to really muscle the carpet down to provide clearance, but it was easier than endangering wiring bundles. (Make sure you have wiring and plugs out of the way on the passenger side when you reinsert the ECU.) Push the gas pedal all the way down (you've disconnected that battery and removed the ignition key, right?), and worked the carpet down and the ECU should slide out easily.
One of the screws for the bottom of the steering wheel column is different from the others. Remember which it is, or simply reinsert it partially while your parts are away. Getting the bottom cover off is easy, just be patient and keep moving it around as Hondata's page suggests. There's a metal part in there that you could bend if you wrench it out forcibly.
Getting it back on is another matter ... the screws are upside down (as are you), you have to line them up, get them all the way into the recesses. It can be frustrating. Just have plenty of light, and patience. Oh ... and I used an old cheat of putting a very tiny drop of Krazy Glue (cyanoacrylate) in the screw head, affixing it to the screwdriver, then threading the screw in. The driver will become unglued when you pull it or pivot it. Again, use VERY LITTLE GLUE. About a pinhead's worth. If you think you may not have enough, you've probably used too much.
There are two connectors around the immobilizer module, disconnect them and don’t yank the wires too much.
The two Philips screws (#14 in the parts breakdown; part no. 72118-ST7-003 on my 2006) fastening the immobilization unit) have REALLY badly cast screw heads. If you're not very diligent about applying pressure/torque to these screws, you can easily strip them out. I don't think you could get them out with vice grip pliers if you trash them. If there's ANYTHING I might've bought from a dealer and use new parts during reinstallation, it's these. They're only a dollar or two. (I believe these are #1-Philips screws while all others on this job are #2-Philips.)
Finally, some have affixed blue painter's tape to the ECU, immobilizer and valet key[2] and written their name on it. Not a bad idea, though I suspect the folks in Torrance don't have a bench full of units all loose and getting mixed up. I used my Dymo industrial labeler to put my name and the last 7 of my VIN on each as a more lasting identification. I also wrote "Hondata 09/2009" on the underside of the ECU when it was returned (not visible unless you remove it).
[2] Yes, Hondata just needs a key that starts the car, so you needn't send one of your black keys if you have a valet key.
(Yes, I will update the Hondata DIY thread with all this.)
The only other change I made to the car was removing a 7000 mile-old engine air filter and dropping in a K&N air filter that I use in fall and winter driving. (I use Acura/Honda blue filters during our nasty-a** pollen season.) I find the K&N's benefits are largely a plusebo, but some claim there's some improvement.
Now to driving impressions.
The first thing I noticed backing out of the garage and test driving (smoke test) in my neighborhood, is that the throttle is more responsive from a standing start. I can only guess this is a change that Hondata does (since the throttle is drive-by-wire), not just a byproduct of additional torque at 1200 rpm. Result: you have to be gentle with that gas pedal; there's no delay from applying pedal pressure to the car leaping forward.
One of the most annoying things about my stock car, and the primary reason I bought the reflash, is the clumsy VTEC boost at 6000 rpm. Accelerating in 1st, 2nd, even in 3rd, wide open throttle (WOT), that sudden increase in power and added spurt of engine acceleration was very distracting and the reason that I reached the redline engine governor by accident once. I actually felt it was a hazard. The reflash, as we all know, moves this VTEC engagement to a lower RPM, resulting in a smooth, near-linear power curve on WOT acceleration. Result? I can go to the redline (or the new Hondata redline) without any variances. BIG IMPROVEMENT. Any driver who takes the engine above 5500 rpm more than a few times a month really deserves this modification.
My GF's uncalibrated dyno-tach derriere reported that that car accelerates faster from 10 - 65 MPH. Could be subjective due to the driver, the expectation of a change (she knows about the mod), whatever. My own impression is that the engine accelerates faster and smoother from 5 - 70 MPH on test onramps that I "tested" with the stock ECU just before the mod. Again, this could be subjective due to the driver (no longer anticipating the stock VTEC engagement), or an improvement in acceleration characteristics attributable to the reflash. I've been skeptical of those who say "drives like a different car"[1] or "much more pull" but after a week of doing some WOT take-offs on the same places I've done it pre-modification, I can confirm the "much more pull" impression. Car goes like a bat outta hell on good, straight pavement.
[1] Part of this is possibly attributable to the touchy throttle at a standing stop, as mentioned. All of my highway tests have been done with the car rolling about 2-5 MPH in 1st gear, then "puttin' the spurs to 'er."
One benefit I was hoping for was increased torque/power at 65 MPH (roughly 2200 rpm in 5th gear, SportShift mode, if my memory serves), e.g. stomping the gas and making it to 75 MPH in < 5 seconds without shifting. Not much there. A little faster increase to 75 MPH, but nothing to raise eyebrows. (Okay, I haven't timed it.) Disappointing, but not much.
But there have been a few times in that past two years when I needed more speed, instantly, and downshifted to 4th, then 3rd, and got it. Yeeha, that's what I loved about the TSX from the first weekend I had it. After the reflash, the car practically jumps at 65 MPH shifting back to 3rd. That would confirm what's reflected in Hondata's dyno runs -- more power at peak rpms. Last night I needed to make a hole for someone merging in from the left (65 MPH zone), and did so in seconds with the drop to 3rd. Big smile here, big credit due to Hondata.
How about normal driving, or "chaffeur driving," like I do with my daughter? Other than that touchy throttle on standing starts, gentle acceleration and low RPM cruising are relatively unchanged. I can feel a wee bit power when it's running at 35 MPH in 4th or 5th gear and I step on the gas. I think shifting logic is more prone to downshift, so a gentler touch on the gas pedal is needed. But it still drives like a luxury car for passengers.
Like others I wondered about the mileage. Obviously mileage dove down for the tankful that was in when I did the mod and tested it out, due to lots of WOT driving (more than usual for me). My first 184 miles on a fresh tank, with some spirited, daily driving, turns out to have given me 27.3 MPG ... which is roughly my overall average during 16 months of data collection. (Yes, I use 91 octane or better, top tier gas and will continue to.) Second half tank refill (7 gallons) ... again, roughly 27 MPG.
Other 2006 5AT TSX' mileage data (yep, I'm the one in NC):
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/mpg/MPG....rue&details=on
Verdict:
Add my voice to those who insist this is one of the first, best mods you can do to your 2004-2006 TSX. The inconvenience of garaging the car for a week can be mitigated, the difficulty of removing the ECU and immobilizer will recede in memory when you're done. Some pricey mods are a matter of taste (you and only you will see/feel the difference), but this mod is one that everyone who rides with you will notice.
Shout out to John Earl of Six Sigma Dyno Services & Tuning (www.SixSigmaDyno.com) for great communication and assistance throughout the process.
Last edited by davidspalding; 10-13-2009 at 11:26 PM.
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lulusworld (08-08-2011)
. It makes my mouth water. Very nice write up though. Is that the only mod currently on your car?
10-15-2009, 04:28 PM
#7
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
Well, I never really felt I *needed* it, I don't rally race, street race, or try to show people up on the freeway. 
I like the car's superior ability to get out of people's way, after 20 years in a Jeep that had to stay out of people's way. Recently, though, I noticed that the sudden jump from 6000 rpm to the artificial (throttle cutoff) redline was so sudden, that I was wary of WOT acceleration to that point. Not being able to use and enjoy one of the car's special virtues, heh, that's no fun. ... Reading last year that Acura tuned the 2009 TSX very similarly to the corrections Hondata made was a further, authoritative testimonial to the value of the reflash.
Also ... I've been spending money on my daughter's summer camps, daddy's prop replica kits and other toys (BD player, digital dimmers for the house), and a vacation with my sweetheart -- why not buy the reflash?
Also ... being out of town for 8 days with the car garaged was a golden opportunity to do this.
Finally ... reading Hondata's removal instructions (and rereading DIY threads here) convinced me that my earlier impression that it was difficult enough to warrant having pros (who are all 1-2 hours out of town for me) do it was in error. This is a pretty easy DIY. It only took me an hour or so to carefully remove the components (no "ripping out" req'd), and about that to reinstall them (putting the screws back in the lower steering column cover was the worst part).
$600 isn't cheap ... but not that much more than a new set of premium tires. All this contributed to my making a decision to "buy my car a present."
BTW, I bought the car in 2007, not in 2006, so I haven't had it all that long. It's still under extended warranty.
Yep. But now with this improved power, springs and a RSB are called for. The reflash is half the equation, I can pour on the power going straight, but have to be careful going into and jetting out of turns.
A colleague who's done this a lot told me, "In this order, brakes, springs, sway bar, chip/reflash." I'm doing it out of order, but by economizing it doesn't have to break the bank. This isn't real estate, and I don't expect to get 50-70% return on a $3000 investment into the car. $1200-$1500 might improve resale value if I find the right buyer in 5-10 years. That's basically my budget.
I like the car's superior ability to get out of people's way, after 20 years in a Jeep that had to stay out of people's way. Recently, though, I noticed that the sudden jump from 6000 rpm to the artificial (throttle cutoff) redline was so sudden, that I was wary of WOT acceleration to that point. Not being able to use and enjoy one of the car's special virtues, heh, that's no fun. ... Reading last year that Acura tuned the 2009 TSX very similarly to the corrections Hondata made was a further, authoritative testimonial to the value of the reflash. Also ... I've been spending money on my daughter's summer camps, daddy's prop replica kits and other toys (BD player, digital dimmers for the house), and a vacation with my sweetheart -- why not buy the reflash?
Also ... being out of town for 8 days with the car garaged was a golden opportunity to do this.
Finally ... reading Hondata's removal instructions (and rereading DIY threads here) convinced me that my earlier impression that it was difficult enough to warrant having pros (who are all 1-2 hours out of town for me) do it was in error. This is a pretty easy DIY. It only took me an hour or so to carefully remove the components (no "ripping out" req'd), and about that to reinstall them (putting the screws back in the lower steering column cover was the worst part).
$600 isn't cheap ... but not that much more than a new set of premium tires. All this contributed to my making a decision to "buy my car a present."
BTW, I bought the car in 2007, not in 2006, so I haven't had it all that long. It's still under extended warranty.
A colleague who's done this a lot told me, "In this order, brakes, springs, sway bar, chip/reflash." I'm doing it out of order, but by economizing it doesn't have to break the bank. This isn't real estate, and I don't expect to get 50-70% return on a $3000 investment into the car. $1200-$1500 might improve resale value if I find the right buyer in 5-10 years. That's basically my budget.
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10-20-2009, 02:54 PM
#9
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10-20-2009, 03:55 PM
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Hondata's removal page is excellent, but there were a couple of tips I had. Some of the following pics are from Hondata with my annotations.)
11-19-2009, 11:47 AM
#12
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
$55 for shipping, the removal and reinstallation AND dyno runs ... not bad.
But check with Mr. Heel-toe if you'd like to save a few bucks....
But check with Mr. Heel-toe if you'd like to save a few bucks....
12-17-2009, 03:52 PM
#13
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
Now to driving impressions.
... How about normal driving, or "chaffeur driving," like I do with my daughter? Other than that touchy throttle on standing starts, gentle acceleration and low RPM cruising are relatively unchanged. I can feel a wee bit power when it's running at 35 MPH in 4th or 5th gear and I step on the gas. I think shifting logic is more prone to downshift, so a gentler touch on the gas pedal is needed. But it still drives like a luxury car for passengers.
... How about normal driving, or "chaffeur driving," like I do with my daughter? Other than that touchy throttle on standing starts, gentle acceleration and low RPM cruising are relatively unchanged. I can feel a wee bit power when it's running at 35 MPH in 4th or 5th gear and I step on the gas. I think shifting logic is more prone to downshift, so a gentler touch on the gas pedal is needed. But it still drives like a luxury car for passengers.
I have gotten used to using a lighter gas pedal foot as the throttle is pretty sensitive. When the tranny (in full Auto) downshifts, it can take a very, very subtle lift off the pedal to coax it to shift back up. In highway driving if I apply additional gas pedal at 65 MPH, without much provocation the car will downshift to 4th, then 3rd gear. For this reason, I sometimes switch to SSD mode to keep the tranny in 5th while I slowly gain speed.
After getting used to the touchy throttle, I've begun to notice another improvement. In the stock ECU, from a slight rolling start in full Auto mode, in order to induce the car to accelerate up to the red line I had to pretty much floor it. Foot all the way down. "Dammit, Scotty, more power." Not so with Hondata. If I so much as accelerate briskly, with the throttle at a moderate (but not max) depression, the car will rev up to 5500 RPM and beyond before shifting. Recently, smooth, fast starts on level ground have resulted in the engine revving to 6500-7000 RPM before shifting.
The results is that I if I want gentle, li'l ol' lady revving and shifting, I have to use a more conscious "chauffeur" style of driving. Not a PITB, but something to be aware of when driving a re-flashed TSX. After a few weeks, it's second nature. If anything, the "touchy" effect has made me a better driver, when being conservative.
02-08-2010, 01:41 PM
#15
Three months later, further impressions:
I have gotten used to using a lighter gas pedal foot as the throttle is pretty sensitive. When the tranny (in full Auto) downshifts, it can take a very, very subtle lift off the pedal to coax it to shift back up. In highway driving if I apply additional gas pedal at 65 MPH, without much provocation the car will downshift to 4th, then 3rd gear. For this reason, I sometimes switch to SSD mode to keep the tranny in 5th while I slowly gain speed.
After getting used to the touchy throttle, I've begun to notice another improvement. In the stock ECU, from a slight rolling start in full Auto mode, in order to induce the car to accelerate up to the red line I had to pretty much floor it. Foot all the way down. "Dammit, Scotty, more power." Not so with Hondata. If I so much as accelerate briskly, with the throttle at a moderate (but not max) depression, the car will rev up to 5500 RPM and beyond before shifting. Recently, smooth, fast starts on level ground have resulted in the engine revving to 6500-7000 RPM before shifting.
The results is that I if I want gentle, li'l ol' lady revving and shifting, I have to use a more conscious "chauffeur" style of driving. Not a PITB, but something to be aware of when driving a re-flashed TSX. After a few weeks, it's second nature. If anything, the "touchy" effect has made me a better driver, when being conservative.
I have gotten used to using a lighter gas pedal foot as the throttle is pretty sensitive. When the tranny (in full Auto) downshifts, it can take a very, very subtle lift off the pedal to coax it to shift back up. In highway driving if I apply additional gas pedal at 65 MPH, without much provocation the car will downshift to 4th, then 3rd gear. For this reason, I sometimes switch to SSD mode to keep the tranny in 5th while I slowly gain speed.
After getting used to the touchy throttle, I've begun to notice another improvement. In the stock ECU, from a slight rolling start in full Auto mode, in order to induce the car to accelerate up to the red line I had to pretty much floor it. Foot all the way down. "Dammit, Scotty, more power." Not so with Hondata. If I so much as accelerate briskly, with the throttle at a moderate (but not max) depression, the car will rev up to 5500 RPM and beyond before shifting. Recently, smooth, fast starts on level ground have resulted in the engine revving to 6500-7000 RPM before shifting.
The results is that I if I want gentle, li'l ol' lady revving and shifting, I have to use a more conscious "chauffeur" style of driving. Not a PITB, but something to be aware of when driving a re-flashed TSX. After a few weeks, it's second nature. If anything, the "touchy" effect has made me a better driver, when being conservative.
02-12-2010, 09:08 AM
#16
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
Yep. My human wetware adapted to the new characteristics a lot faster than when I switched from my '87 Jeep to this '06 TSX...!
02-14-2010, 12:29 PM
#18
I just got the reflash for my 06 auto. What I notice is that you do get much more smooth power delivery in every driving situation. The shifts seem better calibrated (no more huge rpm drop when you need power), and the vtec at 4850rpm is great on the freeway. If I need to get up speed quickly to pass or catch up to traffic, I can just push the pedal down halfway, and I get a satisfactory burst of power at 4850rpms. It's nice to not have to "floor it" just to pick up speed. You'll mostly notice the benefits of the reflash in freeway driving (I would argue). However, around town at lower speeds, I do feel that the car is just more responsive. It really does feel like this is how the car's engine should have been tuned straight from the factory. Note: I have a stock '06 except for a progress rear sway bar.
02-19-2010, 10:45 AM
#19
Make a hole, coming thru!
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02-19-2010, 11:23 AM
#20
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I just got the reflash for my 06 auto. What I notice is that you do get much more smooth power delivery in every driving situation. The shifts seem better calibrated (no more huge rpm drop when you need power), and the vtec at 4850rpm is great on the freeway. If I need to get up speed quickly to pass or catch up to traffic, I can just push the pedal down halfway, and I get a satisfactory burst of power at 4850rpms. It's nice to not have to "floor it" just to pick up speed. You'll mostly notice the benefits of the reflash in freeway driving (I would argue). However, around town at lower speeds, I do feel that the car is just more responsive. It really does feel like this is how the car's engine should have been tuned straight from the factory. Note: I have a stock '06 except for a progress rear sway bar.
03-17-2010, 11:20 AM
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Thanks Dave for the writeup on the Hondata mod.
Since I've owned my 2004 TSX, bought new in November of 2003, one of the original TSX'ers BTW, the only mod I've done is to create my own cold air intake by removing the resonator, opening up the foglight cover and to drop in a K&N airfilter. It sounds alot better and runs very nicely with the additional volume of air as a result.
I've enjoyed the low end torque of the 2.4L engine but I have always been somewhat dissappointed in it's relatively low Redline, especially for a Honda which historically have been known for their virtues in the higher rev ranges.
As a matter of fact my 1992 My EG CIVIC EX, w/ D16 VTEC engine had a higher redline !
In researching my curiousity on how the HONDATA upgraders were fairing,
I just happened upon JTSO's TSX hondata 0-60 run on Youtube and it convinced me as to why there are so many recommendations for this mod.
For It brings back the appeal of a revvving Honda engine to the TSX which is really what it needed.
I can't wait to try this upgrade. It will also force me to fix the rear brakes on my 98 Jeep Cherokee 5-speed, after puncturing it's rear brake hose while off roading and getting it back on the road, while the TSX sits in the garage waiting for it's performance injection @!
Since I've owned my 2004 TSX, bought new in November of 2003, one of the original TSX'ers BTW, the only mod I've done is to create my own cold air intake by removing the resonator, opening up the foglight cover and to drop in a K&N airfilter. It sounds alot better and runs very nicely with the additional volume of air as a result.
I've enjoyed the low end torque of the 2.4L engine but I have always been somewhat dissappointed in it's relatively low Redline, especially for a Honda which historically have been known for their virtues in the higher rev ranges.
As a matter of fact my 1992 My EG CIVIC EX, w/ D16 VTEC engine had a higher redline !
In researching my curiousity on how the HONDATA upgraders were fairing,
I just happened upon JTSO's TSX hondata 0-60 run on Youtube and it convinced me as to why there are so many recommendations for this mod.
For It brings back the appeal of a revvving Honda engine to the TSX which is really what it needed.
I can't wait to try this upgrade. It will also force me to fix the rear brakes on my 98 Jeep Cherokee 5-speed, after puncturing it's rear brake hose while off roading and getting it back on the road, while the TSX sits in the garage waiting for it's performance injection @!
04-27-2011, 09:43 PM
#26
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
Just a followup. I've now spent 4+ hours on the track (VIR) learning HPDE skills, and wringing out the car's A-spec suspension, Progress anti-roll bar, and Racing Brake pads. It's not a racing car, for sure, but it capably keeps up with cars costing from $10,000 to (imho) $25,000 more.
The Hondata reflash's Vtec adjustment can be appreciated during WOT accelerations by its absence (when you've gotten accustomed to the stock Vtec transition), but where you really don't notice it -- and that's a Good Thing -- is when driving consistently in the meaty part of the power band. Driving VIR's North Course earlier this month, I rarely strayed below 3000 RPM, and spent much of the time jetting out of turns and screaming down the straight running the engine right to Hondata's new 7500 redline. The lack of the sudden Vtec jump at 6000 RPM made it easier to operate in this region of the power band, using the engine for all it was worth. I'll bet an experienced track driver will nod and understand, when you don't have to worry about idiosyncratic performance quirks, you can concentrate (and have more fun) driving the track.
My instructor (who races a late 80s BMW M3, no slouchy machine) complimented the modded TSX on its "nice pull," but I quietly patted my dash and praised the car for the smooth travel up and down the tach as I negotiated the track. I'm by no means an experienced amateur who can watch his tach, so I only saw the needle in my "soft eyes" peripheral vision. The lack of a clear Vtec lurch boosted my confidence and willingness to go all out ... a very elusive dividend if you only drive the reflash on the street where -- one hopes -- you abide by traffic laws and safety considerations.
Anyone on the fence about this mod, hop off and get it. It makes the car a lean, formidable car for street and track.
I can't even imagine what it does to an RSX Type-S ... gods it must be awesome.
_____________
Tangoman, it's well known that the reflash gives even better gains for the 6MT model.
Toddstuh ... and the verdict was?
The Hondata reflash's Vtec adjustment can be appreciated during WOT accelerations by its absence (when you've gotten accustomed to the stock Vtec transition), but where you really don't notice it -- and that's a Good Thing -- is when driving consistently in the meaty part of the power band. Driving VIR's North Course earlier this month, I rarely strayed below 3000 RPM, and spent much of the time jetting out of turns and screaming down the straight running the engine right to Hondata's new 7500 redline. The lack of the sudden Vtec jump at 6000 RPM made it easier to operate in this region of the power band, using the engine for all it was worth. I'll bet an experienced track driver will nod and understand, when you don't have to worry about idiosyncratic performance quirks, you can concentrate (and have more fun) driving the track.
My instructor (who races a late 80s BMW M3, no slouchy machine) complimented the modded TSX on its "nice pull," but I quietly patted my dash and praised the car for the smooth travel up and down the tach as I negotiated the track. I'm by no means an experienced amateur who can watch his tach, so I only saw the needle in my "soft eyes" peripheral vision. The lack of a clear Vtec lurch boosted my confidence and willingness to go all out ... a very elusive dividend if you only drive the reflash on the street where -- one hopes -- you abide by traffic laws and safety considerations.
Anyone on the fence about this mod, hop off and get it. It makes the car a lean, formidable car for street and track.
I can't even imagine what it does to an RSX Type-S ... gods it must be awesome.
_____________
Tangoman, it's well known that the reflash gives even better gains for the 6MT model.
Toddstuh ... and the verdict was?
04-28-2011, 02:29 PM
#28
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
) Here's an example, coming out of Turn 12 (VIR Full Course), another double-apex and hairpin, if you look carefully, you can see I'm still beginning to track out (front wheels aren't straight yet), but I'm pouring on gas -- the car is squatting. This is a turn where you can jump on and blast out --
-- but here at Turn 1, a more gradual track out, you need to ease on more gradually.
(This is the steak and the sizzle of HPDEs ... you learn some neat stuff, and see what this car is really capable of, but it IS a learning curve, and you'd best leave your ego and frustration on the paddock.)
Before my runs either the first or second day, I disconnected the battery for 15 mins, to let the ECU forget. Doing this doesn't make any difference to the throttle sensitivity, as far as I can tell. In fact, I'm not sure it accomplished anything. My first HPDE, I used the auto, and learned after an hour that the 5AT really doesn't respond quickly enough for a high speed run on a track. Great for the highway, but a 1 second delay is hundreds of milliseconds too late.
SSM FTW ... and the Hondata reflash really shines in SSM. 
04-29-2011, 08:43 AM
#29
My engine is stock, but if I vtec "more" during a particular period than at other times (and spending more time on the highway, rather than quietly tooling around town) my oil consumption jumps from 0.25 quart/1,000 miles, to 1 quart/1,000 miles; Acura tells me "this is normal". So, I watch my oil, because my oil consumption can change so much, from one two week period to the next. During the winter, just driving around town, the car didn't consume any oil in 4 months (well, maybe 1 qt in total).
If a Hondata engine is vteching at lower rpm, and maybe more often, does it use more oil? It's cheap insurance to check your oil regularly, and often, regardless!
If a Hondata engine is vteching at lower rpm, and maybe more often, does it use more oil? It's cheap insurance to check your oil regularly, and often, regardless!
04-29-2011, 09:04 AM
#30
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
My engine is stock, but if I vtec "more" during a particular period than at other times (and spending more time on the highway, rather than quietly tooling around town) my oil consumption jumps from 0.25 quart/1,000 miles, to 1 quart/1,000 miles; Acura tells me "this is normal".
Um ... my engine at 95,000 miles doesn't consume more than a 1/4 quart over 6000 miles (normal driving, not track), so I'd call
on "Acura tells me 'this is normal.'" 1 qt over 1000 miles is basically 1 qt every two fillups ... unacceptable.[1] Highway driving involves less dynamic revving (hence better mileage, I suspect) than city driving. Somethings wrong with your engine, chum -- get it looked into properly, particularly if you're under warranty or this was first reported under warranty. Just my
.[1] Granted, I did notice a little more oil (Mobil 1 full synthetic, btw) consumption after 4.5 hours of track time, so the general principle you mention is solid. But that's 4.5 hours of the engine running mostly at high rpms, not "going into Vtec regularly during normal driving."
04-29-2011, 12:18 PM
#31
it's a car-drive it
Um ... my engine at 95,000 miles doesn't consume more than a 1/4 quart over 6000 miles (normal driving, not track), so I'd call
on "Acura tells me 'this is normal.'" 1 qt over 1000 miles is basically 1 qt every two fillups ... unacceptable.[1] Highway driving involves less dynamic revving (hence better mileage, I suspect) than city driving. Somethings wrong with your engine, chum -- get it looked into properly, particularly if you're under warranty or this was first reported under warranty. Just my
.[1] Granted, I did notice a little more oil (Mobil 1 full synthetic, btw) consumption after 4.5 hours of track time, so the general principle you mention is solid. But that's 4.5 hours of the engine running mostly at high rpms, not "going into Vtec regularly during normal driving."
04-30-2011, 02:08 PM
#32
Make a hole, coming thru!
Thread Starter
07-09-2011, 11:27 PM
#33
Instructor
Great write up. I was going to take pictures but for some reason that didn't happen when I did my car. I agree its a pain garaging your car while the ecu is out getting reflashed, I decided to put my sway bar in and detail my car while I was waiting. The bolt on the passenger side was harder for me to get out, the clip was the worst out of the whole process imo. It definitely is quicker, I'm still curious about top speed though because before this upgrade I hit 137mph but I would assume that should be different with the reflash. I was thinking about going out to NH for a fun day on the track and see what I can do without worrying about the men in blue.
01-12-2012, 07:40 PM
#35
Advanced
I'm Super late but Amazing write up!!!!! took the laptop with me to the car followed step by step took me 30 mins to get everything out, ecu was hardest for me...this is one of the best things i could have done thanks guys for all the knowledge...
03-31-2012, 09:12 AM
#36
Yes, great Review- very detailed steps - I used this to pull the ecu and immobilizer out of my 05 6mt and sent it in for the upgrade --- amazing what a difference it makes - seems like the shift between 1 & 2 is much smoother...... Definitely money well spent!
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