elduderino

I definitely have experienced the problems of insufficent grounds in a car.

I have seen people install a huge wire for their amp and leave an 8Ga for the battery ground. Didn't work out so well...

I am not at all convinced that all of those wires on that thing are useful... I would probably upgrade the engine block ground and the chassis ground. But I'm skeptical of the Cylinder head and the intake manaifold... and the headlihgt ground can just be an upgraded wire to chassis ground IMO.

But I'm open to being corrected... if you are up for it, you could easliy do an experiment. Disconnect a couple of those grounds and see if it makes any difference. I suspect the tranny ground is just helping the engine block ground, and that a bigger engine block ground lead would probably do the same thing. I bet the block ground is doing 90% of the work...

As far as installing that frisbee to the battery terminal, I would definitely get a cleaner-looking terminal.

elduderino

Oh, and I would consider getting an Optima yellow top or an Exide Orbital battery : )


Very attractive car, BTW.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

I dunno, but at this point I will do anything to get better reception on KDAY (93.5 in socal ). I have heard some people say it helps...

pornstar

I know this is a little outdated and sorry for being a noob to ask this:

can someone who has this share the indvd lengths of the cable that's required? That would really help as I intend to DIY the cables.

Thanks.
pornstar

artmcd88

i think its pretty much cut as you go...grounding parts you feel would help...i dont know the total length needed however

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

I decided to get T1R grounding kit and voltage stabalizer
about 160. From Speedstar.

So i'll see how it works out, and write something.

joerockt

Great. Any chance you can do a before and after dyno?

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

If i knew where I could get a dyno in east coast and in Ny.. haha

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

T1R voltage stab and grounding kit for 159 from speedstar.ca I think its more becasue its in canadian money.

So far the install wasn't too bad, but it was a pain getting that one bolt of near the intake due to the rubble arm of the intake made an akward fit for the rachet.

Everything else went swell, no clue where to place the voltage stab, I mounted on the side of the battery case with 3m sticks.

So the idle and lighting dimmed less.

I put more down when I take it out for a spin.
Maybe even dyno if i find where.

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

Okay so I had some driving last night and this morning.

-Saw increase boost above 5000 rpms
-Low end torque is evened out
-no lag between the pedal and engine (I used to be able to have it on drive and tap the petal and it would bounce, now it is all at your foot)
-smooth acceleration

-AT shifts and a little pull is created in each shift
-Noticed I dn't get that sudden loss of power at the low end torque, where I hear the intake growl but get no response in acceleration

Overall I like it, it feels repsonsive and alive at all times, I usually got over the fact that i'd try to turn and suddenly theres no power at the lowend and i sit in the intersection with a low growl. Weak growl i'd say also.

Let see how the mileage does, for the most part it idles on drive at 700 which is the same without it and it seems to balance out quickly as well.

Dan Martin

You've got to get it on a dyno. I can't believe a few wires would give you all that gain. Honda needs to fire their electrical engineers.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

A before and after test would be very easy to do once you are on the dyno.

joerockt

Thanks. But none of this means shit to me unless I see a dyno...

artmcd88

JTso...how do you have such easy access to a dyno?

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

Someone point me in the right direction of one possibly?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

There is one about 20 mins from my house.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I've found two based on your location. I think you still need to drive a little. They are both in East Hartford. CT. Just ask around the forum. Someone out there might know of a closer shop.

http://www.xxtuning.com

http://www.bristoldyno.com

madmanmax3000

wow those places are good finds, how would i find one in the boston area?

rmpage

From what I can see, the engine already has some fairly diligently-installed grounding cables bolted into it. Granted, all the ones that I can see go to the chassis, but that's a direct route to the negative battery post.

What would be ideal is for somebody with a LOT of modifications to their engine (lots of aftermarket metal mass, in other words) to do a before/after comparison. A dyno won't tell the whole story. To really ascertain the effectiveness of a grounding kit we need voltage measurements from the individual major metal masses (triple alliteration!) in the engine bay while the engine is at idle and under WOT. This could best be accomplished using an oscilloscope, as the primary artifact a grounding kit seeks to eliminate is electrical noise in the form of ripple; the same thing that causes alternator whine in a car's sound system. Ideally, the O-scope should display a fairly flat trace at all times when the probe is touched to different parts. Some noise is unavoidable and tolerable, though I can't say how much. The thing to do would be to watch what voltage of ripple the O-scope displays before grounding and then after. If it is an appreciable amount, compare that to a dyno result and personal observation of how smooth the engine idles and revs. That will tell you how much good it did. This mod will not be one of those things you can easily appreciate like a reflash or a CAI. It is a purely corrective measure. If you've done your modding correctly and there isn't something wrong with your car, a grounding kit should make absolutely no difference in performance, much in the same way as a band-aid does nothing when affixed to healthy skin.

Anyway, I would be very surprised if a TSX needed a grounding kit unless it had so much extra stuff it was almost a different car. I have way more faith in the Honda engineers than that.

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Here is one... Internet is your friend.

http://www.bostondyno.com

Tsx536

Are you sure you're not talking about the Hondata reflash?

bigwilliestyle

my back hair?

Actually, this grounding kit intrigues me. I would be curious in some real results/information also. (especially since it doesn't appear we're getting the reflash.)

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

Theres a different feeling when I drive it now, I can't tell if its loss of power or gain of power. It jsut has a stable feeling between the low end instead of that missing power suddenly in the process of rolling. (injen cai and my cars an at) so I did notice a bunch of changes before and after of the two.

Zasker1

OK I bought an HKS kit and will be installing it this weekend, and yes I will take pictures. I am excited for this, I expect a 45hp gain between this and my tornado air filter.
j/k

what I will do is drive a bit before I do it and than drive it afterwards and post my impressions.

minkl81

iTrader: (2)

HKS kits are expensive. $$

lcrazyaznl

iTrader: (1)

My T1R came out to be 188 grounding and voltage stabilizer.

aaronng

Bump up from the past. I just replaced the negative terminal to chassis ground cable as well as ran a new cable from the alternator. I used 4 gauge power cable with gold plated connectors. Any difference? None in power. But after grounding the alternator, I felt that the engine started much easier as when compared to just replacing the negative terminal chassis ground. I'll check the engine start again tomorrow to see if it really is an improvement or a coincidence.

MrHeeltoe

iTrader: (1)

Since we were bumped, I will take the opportunity to let you know we carry voltage stabilizer kits from Apex and Buddy Club.

junktionfet

That's interesting. One thing I've noticed about my TSX is a lag in response between what my foot does, and what the throttle does. It might be my imagination, but this lag doesn't feel as bad when VSA is turned off--I suppose the throttle response might be deliberately sluggish when VSA is on. At any rate, it is lousy and I can't stand it.

I would like better response. Actually I'd like to just have a throttle cable, but that isn't in the cards. Can anyone else confirm that better grounding improves the response between pedal and throttle?

kennungesser

I wonder if the weight of all that copper would negate any performance gained? Something to think about.

outersquare

don't make stuff up.

the reason home appliances use 3 prongs and one for ground is because household electricity is AC, automotive is DC.

ground wires are freaking snake oil scams, especially when sold for $100+

red ground wires are ass backwards in the electrical world/convention, it's like having a hot water faucet colored blue. It also shows the level of knowledge of people making/buying those things.

If you keep the existing stock ground points clean, that is good enough.

junktionfet

Being that the car is OBD-II and LEV Tier 2 compliant, I would think that the factory engine management electronics are sufficient.

However grounds are a concern because while the electrical system is theoretically DC, it can be quite noisy. Diode switching noise from the 3 phase regulator in the alternator, inductive kick from the coil packs and the injectors, the brush motors for the fuel pump and blower, the switching frequency of the headlight power supply, etc, etc. Throw in additional albeit minor RF noise from the CAN, all the computers, etc... With a modern car that has all of these gadgets, ground layout is very critical, otherwise you run the risk of creating a tuned circuit.

With that said, I'm sure Honda engineers had all of this in mind when they designed the electrical system. Or perhaps they simply bandaided problem areas here and there to save money? Who knows.

The point is, if you're going to supplement your grounds, go the DIY route. Don't spend tons of money on kits... unless of course you're going for looks and/or have a lot of money to throw about.

outersquare

Of course, once you bring tuned/resonant RLC circuits into the picture, this begs the question of if adding more wires will make the situation worse.

junktionfet

That's true--could end up hurting the situation.

Eh, probably best to just keep all the stock connections clean and tight. I've even thought of soldering some of the crimp-on lugs... Seems like my friend's old '99 Integra had that, but I don't think my TSX does.

Spoon

The '3rd prong' is a safety ground and isn't dependent upon AC. It's simply a backup system to provide an alternate pathway to ground in the event there is a fault in either the neutral or hot wire resulting in the case/switch/anything conductive from becoming live, so that the person touching it doesn't get electrocuted.

outersquare

Fair enough, i was sloppy, yes it is correct that you don't need a 3rd wire to carry AC.


"In a mains (AC power) wiring installation, the grounding is the wire that carries currents away under fault conditions."

wikipedia

I am just saying it's a part of AC wiring, not to improve signal quality/performance as implied earlier by someone else.

rmpage

You might want to research the differences between a signal ground and a power ground a bit more thoroughly.

peter_bigblock

I'm going to disconnect my DIY ground wire kit, see if I detect any difference in starting, idle, throttle response, smoothness, etc. My initial impression when I installed it (months ago) was that starting was easier, throttle response was smoother, and idle was smoother. I'll report my impressions after disconnecting.

Next time I'm at the dyno, I'll try to remember to do a before/after ground wire test.

outersquare

"In a mains (AC power) wiring installation, the grounding is the wire that carries currents away under fault conditions. "

wiki


you first

aaronng

There is almost no performance gain from grounding kits for modern cars... It's only the older cars that have deteriorated wires that benefit. For the TSX, it's bling!

What I'm more worried though is the creation of ground loops where there are multiple paths to ground from the same component and it forms a loop by which small currents can loop in.

If anyone here owns one of the early generation Shuttle mini computers, you'll understand as it is the same problem that they had with the front headphone jacks. They had 3 ground points and as a result, current looped and created noise in the headphone channel. It was irritating, like the sound through your speakers when you have an incoming call on your mobile phone.