Other than Hondata have any other members done systematic same day tests of a system on their TSX?

I tune Hondatas, Power FC's and other systems (Greddy eManage) for a Dyno Shop near Chattanooga, TN. I leant the owner my old Type-R for a day for a training class and also fixed his PC the other day. In trade I will be dynoing the TSX for free.

I discussed with him my plan and he is happy to help.

I want to
1) Base Line the TSX
2) Remove the Resonator and Test
3) Install a Brand New Icebox I have sitting here and Test
4) Remove the Icebox and Install a brand new Injen CAI Intake I have sitting here.

I want to compare the results and see what the true differences are on the same car on the same day under the same circumstances. I will do this regardless of what other members have done but I would certainly like to have tests to compare to.

I'd also be happy to take input on how/what variables should be tested and controlled. If you have thoughts let me know.

Trey

 

That's fantastic! I've been hoping someone would do this. it will really put to rest the debate about the different mods and their relative effectiveness. Most interesting to me is the difference between icebox and no resonator. Any timeline on whe you think you may do this?

If you can try and get a dyno with all 4 graphs overlayed!

 

I would hook up an OBD2 scan tool and run each test under the same condition such as air intake temp and coolant temp. If the engine is heat soaked, cool it back down to the same condition before the next run. Also hook up a wideband O2 sensor and monitor the A/F with each run. Good luck!

 

Wow...sounds awesome man. Great plan you have there. Looking forward to the results

 

Absolutely, that's the Plan.

Good thought on the OBD2 Tool. I'm used to using the Hondata software to monitor Temps.

We ALWAYS monitor AFR so I will post graph info about it too.


This will be on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno so the Numbers will be lower than what you woudl see on a DynoJet but the comparison will be the info we are looking for anyway.

 

Hope it doesn't show I spent $150 for nothing.

 

what happened here?

 

Funny you should ask, I was just thinking I neede to get my report together. Dyno'd thanksgiving day weekend.

Comptech beat out the Injen in my testing. I will scan the graphs and post a report.

 

Comptech beat out the Injen? Even in the top end?

 

Exactly what I was thinking and I have the Comptech Icebox.

"you got to be shitting me Pyle"

 

Did you remember to reset the ECU before each run?

 

OK this is certainly depedning on what you were going for and I will explain with plots.

ECU was reset and a test was actually done and it really only takes the ECU 2 full throttle runs on a dyno without resetting to adapt on its own.

 

Its good to hear bcus i was planning to get comptech very soon

 

Ok, here is what I got. I ran the car bone stock with 4000 miles on it. I had not changed anything in anticipation of trying this test. I bought a brand new Injen (2 piece; cold air) and new Icebox to test. This testing was all done on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno so please don't fixate on the actual values but instead the graphs and actual gains and area under the curves.

This test is on a 100% stock 2005 TSX with nothing changed except the Intake

I will say these are not the results I expected.

What I found was that the Comptech actually made a measurable amount of power at 2500 rpms, the Injen had the midrange power around 3500-4800 and then Comptech edged out the numbers again.

None of these numbers wth an intake alone will set the world on fire or make a big difference based on the weight of the car. I'd guess Hondata will be the biggest single seat of the pants mod and as soon as it is released for 2005's I'll test it.

On to the graphs . . . (Stock = 2, Comptech = 8, Injen = 12)

Stock: (Dyno Dynamics is easily 12%-15% lower than a dynojet)





Stock vs. Comptech:
Notice the throttle response gain down low. With measurable gains everywhere under the curve after 3600rpm.





Stock vs Injen:
The Injen made tons of midrange and even some up top but note the slight drop at about 2700.




Comptech vs. Injen:
The one you guys are probably waiting for . . . Notice the gain at 2700 from the Comptech, then the Injen makes more power from 3300 rpm to 4800 rpm then the Comptech makes more power to redline.




Stock vs Comptech vs Injen:
Both Intakes made power over stock. I kept the Comptech cause it's throttle response was better, it's midrange was good and it's upper end was a lot better than the Injen I tested. The Injen did have more midrange but the amount of power difference was smaller and over all area under the curve went to the Comptech

 

I did tons of search on this forum about Intake, but since there's Comptech, Injen, AEM, and K&N to consider, also CAI or SRI setup~ I'm a little confuse on what I should pick.

I'm in Toronto where as the winter down here is snow snow and snow all the time. Since I read CAI will damage the engine if it sucks in "water", BUT, SRI will gain less performance than CAI. I have no idea which setup is good.

Any suggestion please?

 

so any suggestions for why the comptech came out ahead? Would it be that there would be a greater difference in highway conditions? or with higher engine temps?

on another similiar note, I have a mesh fog cover right now with and injen CAI, but I'm getting a fog light kit. Do you guys think that this will cut my airflow?

 

it seems comptech makes tad bit more power compared to injen in the CAI category and btw the mesh cover in your fogs wont have any affect on your intake

 

i guess it all depends on the driver, i like to shift at higher rpm's so the big performance change within the 3500 to 4800 rpm's range is big to me

 

Outstanding job, props for doing the tests.

 

Guys, I've owned a Type-R for the last 5 years and sold it this summer for a TSX. I was ready for something a little more refined.

I won't pretend to know or start to speculate on what caused my results. I have tuned dozens on Hondata and Power FC cars and been on this dyno well over 200 times in different cars. The temps should not have been a factor and liek I mentioned not the results I expected but hope this info helps people.

I'd suggest if someone else have the resources they try a similar test we compare results.

Stay tuned fo the hondata charts (Waiting on the '05 release)

 

Nice work! Were the air temp and coolant temp stabilized between the different runs? I'm trying to think if heat soak was a factor.

 

Great data! I wonder how the Comptech w/ K&N would do compared to the Injen and compared to Comptech w/o K&N.

 

cool...good think i asked .....
i'd say just use comptech foam filter....they are made for that intake why drop K&N?

if you want to switch....at least use another brand of foam filter

 

Asahi you have MT right?

 

Acutally there are several threads on using the K&N filter with the Icebox. Fitment is an issue, but, those who have managed to make it fit and seal properly report feeling an improvement over the Icebox foam filter. I have the K&N with the Icebox but I never used the foam filter to begin with.

 

well look at post #8 http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25198

Maybe in gernal K&N > stock > foam
comptech has some good quality stuff to begin with
why would they make some crappy filter to fit on aftermarket one to begin with....

besides Spoon use foam filter as well XD haha

there should be different lvl of foam filter
some are well made some are not........but who knows
i am just thinking if comptech foam is re-usable why not give a try.......
filtering out dust anyway right....shouldn't be too bad

 

^^ absolutely. And, it won't cost you anything extra to go with the Comptech foam filter. The K&N is also reusable. K&N are known for their filters, Comptech.. not so much. But, not having tried the foam filter, I can't say that one is better than the other.

 

There weren't any heat soak issues.

We did about 3 runs per setup to verify and stabilize operating temps. There was about 30 minutes between setups while I changed intakes and reset he ECU and then the same 3-4 runs were made to get to operating temps. Would have been more likely to make a run too cool with the downtime between runs but we took that into account.

 

I sure do.

 

The Dyno tests show about a 5 hp improvemnt (would be slightly larger # gain on a Dynojet). Swapping filters typically nets a 1 to 1.5 hp gain if you go from Paper (stock) to K&N. I'd say there isn't much feeling that since feeling the intake is minimal at best.

I will try to dig it up but if I recall correctly there is a filter test (although done on deisle trucks) that shows K&N to be one of the worst filtering while foam is a midle of the road option.

I used to prefer K&N as well and am to the point it isn't an issue. If your hobby is tweaking your car, get whatever makes you feel like you got the best.

 

Take this for what's its worth. This was a great study but is done on Diesel trucks. YOu can read the whole thing or for the cliff nots scroll to the different graphs and read the explinations of how each filter did. This test was done on a machine not just anyone can get their hands on so if you want more background read the rest of the report.

I'm mostly posting this because before I read this I had a blind alegiance to K&N as well. Now I use what I have and am more skeptical of the Hype.


http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm



A quote from the article

"In the chart above it’s important to note the different test durations for each filter. The AC Delco filter test ran for 60 minutes before exceeding the restriction limit while the AMSOIL and K&N tests each ran for 20 and 24 minutes respectively before reaching max restriction. In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms. Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."

 

Trey,
Looks like the pics aren't working or were taken down. Any chance of hosting them again?

 

I second that.

 

i think that guy sold the car and left the forum

 

will have before/after dynos or a UR Pully install for a tsx later today. Best before dyno was 183hp, putting parts on now.

 

Last Activity: 03-31-2006 7:10 PM

Sent him a PM. Hopefully, he'll log in and post them.

 

i find it hard to believe that the comptech intake made better peak power than injen....id have to see the dynos as well but they arent showing up

 

You are correct. I bought an S2000 in February. If I can find the images at home I told jlukja I would post them back up for him. Sorry I took them down.

I repeated the runs numerous times all on the same day to ensure repeatability and accuracy. Icebox surely did produce more peak and low end power with Injen higher in the mid range.

 

as far as i remember it made like 2hp more

 

Pictures are back, sorry for the 6 months Hiatus. I do own an S2000 now and don't stop by here so email me if you have a question.