no more si

Forgive me if this has been gone over i searched the first couple of words in the search engine but didnt find this in the 4 pages that came up..


I have some questions regarding these 2 specific intakes being that they seems to be the most popular. I also noticed that aem doesnt make a v2 for our cars yet but im prob wrong ...anywayz .I read somewhere on a post that its good to get all you modifications from the same manufacturer as they are made to basically fit each other and im sure for most of the tunerz out there you know that theres nothing more ()*&*()() up than when you get a part that doest fit nice ..



Well ive chosen to break it down into a couple of perspectives and would like to hear from many on this subject:



Performance: HP , torque

Appearance: If it makes ya feel kinda funny Like when you used to climb the rope in gym class

difficulty of install: seems like bumpers need to come off for one

Price: talking about 100-150 dollar difference in some cases WHY???



Here are some <u><b>dynos </b> </u> from the manufacturers site:

<b>PERFORMANCE</b>



comptech icebox WHEEL horsepower dyno:



comptech icebox WHEEL torque dyno:


------------------------------

Injen sp1431 horsepower &amp; torque dyno:




<b>APPEARANCE</b>

comptech icebox:


-------------------------

injen sp1431:



<b>INSTALL</b>

comptech icebox

-------

injen:

just about the same???????






<b>PRICING</b>

Here are some prices now for each:

comptech icebox:

ebay---153.00

autocarparts.com 155.00 sale

modacar.com 164.00

injen:

ebay----266.00

autocarparts.com----266.00 sale

modacar.com ---266.00



and its the same lilke this throughout the web. Is there really a big difference besides the injen seems to be more attractive hence the price difference ?...Both seems to be putting out relativley the same numbers in performance.



I would really appreciate some of your thoughts on these situation regarding these intakes ....thanks for all the responses:

moda_way

Had you scrolled down in this section, you'd see a thread.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33737

jimbo3123

I understand that the comptech is quite a bit quieter than the Injen, and it doesn't suffer from the loss of low-end power.

Those were my main reasons for chosing the Icebox.

no more si

so the ice box gives more lowend power: what year and set up are you running..
auto or manual? thanks man

BulldogHockey

Yeah this one has probably been posted 20-30 times.

But to anwer your question. Icebox seems to be quieter, cheaper, and similar power. Asahi did a head to head comparison of the two intakes on his car (should be able to find in search). Icebox was actually better on low end and high end. Injen was better in mid-range. I agree the Injen has a cool look to it and is a true CAI.

I've got an '06 MT, and love the icebox just because I like it quiet and probably do more low end RPM driving anyway. You'll be fine either way though.

Some people here have had both and have posted their impressions, should be able to search for that too.

svmtbman

I love my Icebox on my '05 6MT!!

aaronng

Meh Icebox & Injen.... I have an Apexi short ram inside a custom airbox.

CrazyCool[O]

iTrader: (1)

I love mine too! 04 TSX 5AT! It not like mind blowing sound, though.

blumpkin

I just put my injen back on after having it off for about a year...

its too loud, i think it sounds sexy, but its not like the car is really movin

lotta bark, no bite

kboosman00

I absoluetly love my SP1431!!! No regrets whatsoever.

s001y

This is applicable for CL7 Euro R

Icebox : Almost same as stock except larger air but they butt dyno is almost no difference.

Mugen : Same or close to icebox and stock and only nice is the CF.


Open pod next to stock venturi rubber hose. Gruppe M is the best of the lot with CF heat shield and proven power gains as well as crazy sound. On a CL9, 2.4L, the sound is much louder!

Open pods filters, depending on size and design, the flow is better at higher end and some torque loss at low end. Pulling power is damn good but please do a heat shield....


Now Stock airbox : Basically, almost the best set up balance drive. If an open pod within the stock airbox, problem is size of filter needs to be much longer for air drawing.

Injen : Seems the loss of the venturi effect due to 3inch pipe to throttle body. Too many bends.

Open pod but with metal pipe extending down wards to the "hole" for CAI, the bend at the end seems to hold back at high end.

Stock venturi pipe with fan blowing and open pod. Assisted air intake allows smoother flow at high end. Dyno shows 5hp gain at peak.

aaronng

I'm running a similar setup to the gruppeM except that I am using the Apexi filter, which I prefer because it is a dry pod. My enclosure is hand built from aluminium sheet. Granted it still needs a little bit of adjustment and sealing, the intake pulls as hard as stock at low RPM and even harder at medium to high RPM. Of course, this is my butt dyno we are talking about and it could just be my imagination.

But .... it is VERY loud compared to the Injen. Makes the Injen sound like a toy actually.

s001y

Wonder if you could post a pic of your air set up. I am actually toying around with different airintakes from small to large to metal mesh to cotton K&N etc with length pipes to shorten pipes, bends etc combinations.

Is it possible to get a replica "Gruppe M type" of heat shield in Australia?

I am using a more simple cover up heat shield system and not customised aluminium set up. Will share with you on what I have done off line this thread. Space is real tight for the CL7.

By the way, APEXI intake is quite good and the roar is also good for CL7. Needs a pipe extended closer to the body wall so that the engine heat stays away. Seems better than HKS mushroom type. Agree that the sound is woah woah.

aaronng

I only have pics of the arrangement when I was doing the fitting with cardboard and another pic of the whole thing made from aluminum and sealed up. There is an additional sheet of fitted aluminum that has the edging lined with a clear pvc hose so that it seals around the stainless steel apexi adapter. I've used weather foam on the part where the curve meets the chassis on the right side in the picture so that I don't get air leakages. The top cover needs a little adjustment as I got a little too enthusiastic with the rubber mallet. In the end, it'll all be sealed, with holes plugged up with epoxy for a perfect fit and the whole thing sprayed in black engine enamel. You could spray it with heat insulating paint too!

BTW, if anyone wants to do the same, don't use 1.0mm thick aluminum sheet. Go for 0.5-0.6mm instead. I used tin snips to cut through the sheet and a dremel for hard to reach angles and let's just say that I'm the owner of a pair of blunt tin snips and I have no more cut-off wheels left.

Anything is possible with regards to replicas. It just depends how much you want to spend. Given the cost of labour here, getting a GruppeM replica made up in carbonfibre will cost you more than the real thing!

With regards to engine bay heat, yes, it gets hot after a while. Coolant temperatures are about 92ºC without the aluminum airbox and 85ºC with. I'll be looking at applying a layer of heat insulating rubber over the aluminum to help reduce the heat transfer. The aluminum box does get VERY hot after a long and hard drive. Also, I'll be fitting in a pipe from the bumper to the hole in the chassis in a similar fashion to the Icebox's intake horn.

Pebbles69

Hi...thats really interesting. In fact, it does look like a replica of the GruppeM intake system which I am using for my EuroR. However, in order to channel cold air into the vacant resonator area and up into the GruppeM cover, I am using a Mugen Air-scoop that is mounted behind the fog lamp area and diverting cold air from the lower bumper grill opening.....you might want to think about this and customize it out of aluminium sheeting as well....

Here's a pic of the mugen air-scoop....

s001y

U get my tops marks for a nice replica out of Alu!!!! We have been thinking of this for a long time and no time to work on this. Excellent!

What I am using now is the base of the stock airbox and have my 5 inch filter attached to a powerful fan blower. Just imagine the fan replaces your SS pipe and my 5 inch filter with front concave is located about the same distance as yours.

I made a bracket curved into a big "C" (mounted from my battery holder end) so to hold the fan blower straight as well the filter. Then I used a black cloth with velcro edges that commonly used for battery protector for heat and covered the whole thing and the base stock airbox basically seals off the heat. My problem is the folds not so well on the engine side where the stock venturi pipe sits. So, some hot air is coming in. I think I will cut a proper hole to fit once I get hold of another of this battery cover. I looked around and used the VWs ones.

Since the stock air box has a pipe facing down to the hole, I have a rubber funnel size 4 inch but crammed to fit and L-shape 90 degrees , and thus the other side 7 inch mouth facing slightly angled downwards towards the front bumper. The idea is that this L bend open mouth will scoop all the air upwards.

On the front bumper, we made a replica Mugen scoop that draws air from the front right down the side below the fog lights. This problem for the 2005 has been solved with the facelift 06 model where they have a side small grill for more direct air intake.

Now I see the works on this and I agree with you that you need to stick some insulating heat material all around this alu box of yours. The growl on this acts like a trumpet and the Gruppe M pulling sound is wild!!

Now, the next issue is that for the Gruppe M, they use a wide mouth filter drawing the flow of the air. It seems that angle is highly suitable for CL7.

I need to oraganise some pics and just no time as i travel quite a bit. You can see my car under Gallery and the RED JDM is mine. Looks quite different now on the front with the Mugen grill etc....

cheers and thanks!!

s001y

Pebbles is one of our bros here and these pics will help you to mount them location.


Location behind the bumper on your left fog light position. Scoop sits with narrow end goes underneath the fog light.





Shows after you mount it, pick carefully a location for using screws or even just cable tie to hold it down. Watch out for the bolts below so that it does not obstruct the bolts that holds the stock body kit lower lips.






View from the front where the the air is drawn in from the front left side and scooped around under the left fog light into the space where the stock airbox was.
Air pressure brings it upwards and don't worry about driving through flood waters..

Chris_F

aaronn, your aluminium setup looks very similar to the gruppeM - nice work on the DIY Job.
with some heat insulation I think you'll have a very effective setup. That's the biggest benifit of the gruppeM - CF has great heat shielding properties. After heaps of hard driving its barely warm to the touch.

Another slight difference between your custom setup and the gruppeM is the position of the filter. The filter on the gruppeM is essentially attached to the stock rubber intake tubing (there's no extension like yours)

Also iteresting to note and like s001y pointed out.. the gruppeM filter has a fairly unique design. It has a smooth metal dome at the top of the filter and on the opposite side is a metal cone (designed to direct airflow .. or just look fancy).

I think a shielded SRI is definitely the best setup - I've always had a feeling that the extra length of the INJEN intake is causing it to bog down in lower rpm? Or maybe not.

That mugen scoop also looks very interesting :P

JTso

iTrader: (2)

aaronng, your design approach is similar to my airbox setup that I did on my other car using cardboard for template, then transfer to aluminum. I also discovered later that aluminum is not the best material as it absorbs too much heat under the hood and actually feeding hot air to the filter. I later transferred the template to a large sheet of plastic. The same material that audio shops use for fabricating panels for custom installs. This type of plastic is very easy to cut and very easy to form with a heat gun and it doesn't absorb heat. You can also use plastic welding to join the seams together.

Chris_F

^ sounds like a much better material to me

aaronng

Thanks guys. That Mugen scoops is interesting. I was thinking of just putting piping to duct air from the foglight opening to the hole in the chassis. But the scoop looks like a good candidate to use my remaining aluminium on.

JTso, have you measured intake temperatures when comparing between the plastic and aluminium? I am trying to sort out an OBDII reader to output all the information. Problem is that I want it to connect to the PocketPC, and so I'll have to either get a serial cable (expensive for pocketPC) or get a bluetooth OBDII reader (about $250 here). I'm stilll waiting on a reply from Car-Pal for the reader. Does anyone have this?

I'll give the plastic airbox a go too. No doubt it'll be much easier to cut through with a dremel and to seal. But I'll do it after I get the OBDII tool. I want to have numbers for the intake air temperature drop. For now, the only time I have a problem with heatsoak is when the car has been stationary for a while and I am just driving off. But when moving, the flow of air is sufficient that there is no power loss as when compared to an exposed pod. I can see my coolant temperatures being higher, but I don't notice a loss in torque or response.

Chris_F, on the inside of the gruppeM filter, does the chrome dome thingy direct airflow down into the intake pipe? That's what the Apexi does. The centre is an inverted cone that directs airflow to the filter mouth opening so that turbulence is reduced. With regards to the stainless steel pipe, I found that even a slight change in bend angle can affect power. For the first week that I had the intake, I had a slightl kink where the intake tube met the stainless steel part and there was no change in performance. I took it off and remounted it properly a 2nd time and there was a difference!

One thing good about the Apexi filter is that there is a bracket that goes from the filter to the chassis, so it eliminates any chance of vibration at the pod end.

s001y

The extra length for Injen intake does retain some torque against if attached directly to the hose rubber. However, at high end, short ram is HP and thus the diliema of the Torque at low end and HP gain at high end.....sigh

s001y

Your filter observations are correcto as my butt tests also confirms this.
Gruppe M has this chrome dome and totally angled with the filter and steep angle flow but towards a bigger plastic holding before it sizes down to enter the stock rubber hose.

Apexi has this inverted centre to draw more air in and this gives it the unique sound. yes, the bracket is a plus but this is easily replaceable....

initialtsl

i like the icebox.nice power and all..but ive heard my friends CAI and i was wondering if there is short ram intake very close to the icebox with more sound and maintaining the same power or more than the icebox.

aaronng

The end of the apexi is sealed and does not draw air in. It's just an inverted plastic cone that is shaped so that the air flows in with less turbulence inside the pod. Here's some Apexi propaganda:


While this is a bonus, the main reason why I went for Apexi was because I wanted a dry filter. Has anyone tried replacing the oiled pod filter that comes with their Injen CAI with one from Apexi?

aaronng

You mean a pod filter in a plastic airbox? You could try something similar to the S2000 intake, but I doubt it'll fit. Maybe the airbox of a DC2R?

Pic from Mikeyas of Ozhonda:

aaronng

Got a question JTso, if the thermoplastic can be formed with a heat gun, wouldn't the engine bay be hot enough to get it a little bit soft as well?

JTso

iTrader: (2)

I did not measure the effect of the plastic shield on my other car as the IAT sensor is installed on the intake manifold. The scan tool won't register the air temp changes by the shield. However, I did measure the surface temp on the TSX intake with an infrared thermometer. Basically, the farther away from the TB, the cooler the surface temp. The reading was very noticeable as little as a few inches apart.

I have two OBD2 scan tools - one PC based USB with data logging and one pocket PC with serial cable. I got the serial cable from ebay for only a few dollars. You should give that a try.

Heatsoak is a common problem but more so for a SRI setup. This can get worse when the radiator fans turn on blowing even more heat toward the engine and further heatsoak all the components. So definitely reevaluate the airbox material being used.

aaronng

I reckon the IAT readings would give a good indication on whether if the air coming in is getting warmed less using the plastic airbox. What you want is the temperature of the air as close as possible to the throttle body rather than at the airbox.

I'm trying to get an OBD2 reader off ebay too. Problem is my Dell Axim's serial cable costs more than the reader! LOL.

aaronng

I've insulated the airbox using 1.5mm rubber. Coolant temperatures have dropped by 3ºC. Still waiting on the scantool.

aaronng

Here's an update! Box has a cold air feed from the fog light cover:


And spray painted black with engine enamel. Let's play spot the airbox:

JTso

iTrader: (2)

Looks good!

HoOnzABPTSX

great job arrong

shitbox

i have a question, how do you guys change the filter?

aaronng

You mean for the Injen or Comptech or my Frankenstein?

For Injen CAI, you do it through the wheel well liner. For Comptech, you do it like the stock filter.

My OBDII scantool has arrived!!!!! But my PDA's serial cable hasn't, so I'll have to borrow my housemate's laptop to test it out.

shitbox

i mean how do you change the filter on your custom cold air box? is suppost to sealed perfectly but how do you change the filter in the future?

you did a great job Aaronng!

aaronng

Just take off the bolt on the top right that holds the cover down. In my engine bay, the negative terminal is extra large, so I have to swing it around. Top cover comes off first, then the side cover. My filter is held on to the stainless steel pipe by 4 bolts. Get at it with a sidchrome rotator ratchet and all done.

Easier than pulling off the wheelwell liner to get to the filter for CAI.