I was looking around on the NSX Forum and came up on an interesting article from Forbes.com talking about how Acura isn't keeping up.

http://www.forbes.com/2004/02/23/cx_dl_0223feat.html

BTW... I searched and didn't find anything so I hope this isnt a repost.. just found it interesting. It is somewhat dated but if you read it, you will see how Acura has listened and is starting to respond with their products.

 

not saying anything has changed since the RL came out, but that article is almost 1.5 years old.

 

It definately looks like Acura sales have increased by quite a bit. I see tons of the new TL's driving around Atlanta all the time.

You've got to keep in mind though. Toyota and Nissan are actually publically traded companies in Japan. While Honda remains one of the few private companies around. The private companies will not have as much $$ to do marketing etc as the larger corporations do. But as a private company, i imagine quality control is much easier if you have the right person in charge.

Somebody please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

Well . . . it is a repost, back from early 2004 when this article first appeared. But welcome to the board!

 

btw nice icon OBSERVER, u are quite the speeder

 

Yeah, the article is a bit out of date...it mostly centers on Acura's perceived lack of competitive product in the SUV and high-end sports car categories. As gas prices climb, and the SUV market winds down a bit, this may not be as relevant as it was 18 months ago. It might be really smart of Honda not to spend buckets of cash developing a V-8 in retrospect.

 

Honda IS a Public Company with a market cap of $45Billion USD or 3x that of GM. Traded on the Tokyo stock exchange and the ADRs for it are traded on the NYSE under the symbol HMC. They are bigger than Nissan. I own a couple thousand shares myself.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=hmc

 

Hmm... Guess i heard wrong then.
Oh well...

 

Acura needs

 

Acura is not catching up to the image they used to have. That is all.

During the early to mid 90's, Acura has the strong sport car image with the NSX; there goes the charming Legend Coupe and the race track popular Integra. The design of those 3 cars are superb and it still looks good in these days. If you look at the new RSX and the 2rd generation CL, they look horrible. They lost all the aerodynamic design of the traditional Honda image, i.e. the big flare int he front fender, curve tail, and the erfined interior. Another missing ingredient is what cause the fall behind----the high performance image. If I'm not mistake, my older Integra Type R can do 0-60 in 6.2 sec easy. Look at the new CL with the 260hp and 6 speed manual, it barely made it to the 6.0 sec flat. None of the car in the new Acura line offers the high performance aspect, neither the RSX or TSX has that kind of power.

Another shocking thing is that the body of the new Acura is so high. That is why it doesn't seat well and didn't cling on the road so well. My 1994 Legend Coupe LS's body is lower than my 2005 M3. The side mirror is actually 2 inches lower which make the visibility much better. Than, there goes the NSX with the cart-car body.

If Acura ever want to get back to the glory day, they will have to include their performance look once again.

 

Performance look? Bull-shit ! The redesigned Acuras blows away the older models by a landslide. You can't tell me the older TL looks better then the new TL. You can't tell me the integras look better than the TSX's. MDX - great looking. RL - looks good. RSX - ok.

The majority of the new models clearly look better than the old. I'm sure alot of people will agree !!!

 

I just want them to move to having the door opener integrated into the keys like Audi and BMW. Although the panic button is pretty nice to have when lost in a parking lot. I do think the styling is a bit too conservative or at least not differentiated enough from the Hondas. Our damn windows say honda intead of Acura. If Acura as a brand wants to be seen as "luxury" they've got to stop taking short cuts like that. It bugs me when people who aren't car people as me, that's nice, is that a Honda? I say yeah, it's Acura, the luxury brand of Honda. I shouldn't have to say that. No one asks if Audi's are VWs or if Lexus is a Toyota.

 

This post confuses me

You mean the key and key fob should be one part?

People who aren't "car people" know the difference between Audi/VW but don't know the difference between Acura/Honda?

Lexus windows say toyota on them...

 

Until recently, all Lexus glass said "Toyota". As far as I know, Infiniti glass still says "Nissan" on it.

And if people asking you if the car is a Honda offends your sensibilities, maybe you bought the car for the wrong reasons.

 

The average numbskull does not know what Car manufacturer makes what brand. So when they look at our windows and see honda, they get confused because they have no idea Honda makes the Acura brand. So they will ask you "is that a Honda?". I usually have to explain in detail about who makes Acura, Lexus, Audi and etc. They do not have a clue and will forget 5 mins after you tell them because they are numbskulls.

 

I mean, when they look at it from afar. It really looks like a Civic to the uninitiated eye. And yes, the key and fob should be one. Less stuff to carry around and it looks nice.

"And if people asking you if the car is a Honda offends your sensibilities, maybe you bought the car for the wrong reasons."

If Honda wanted, they could make it the Honda TSX. The whole point of the Acura line is to try to get more money out of us by representing a "higher" line of cars. Obviously, our cars are Honda Accords in Europe. I'm saying, if they want that extra money, they should do a better job of branding and styling it so there's no confusion. All my cars have been Acuras and I still sometimes get the new RL mixed up with an Accord from afar. Styling cues just need more work.

 

The Lexus key and fob are 1. My friend just had to replace hers for a whopping $600. Ours is only $75. I am happy the fob and key are seperate! We can get 8 keys for the price of 1 of theirs. Thats $525 savings on replacing 1 freakin key.

What mods would you rather have for that $525?......Hondata! Anyday!

 

Keep in mind that Acura is unique to North America because we're so obsessed with image and brand names. Acura was started to cater to people who needed to believe that they were driving a luxury name plate. In the rest of the world, there is no Infiniti or Acura. These are constructs to feed the American need for self importance.

 

I know the price is built into the cars initially but the solution to the replacement cost is of course, DON'T LOSE THE KEY! We get 2 sets to start with.

Speaking of the Hondata. Is the 05 out? I've heard ppl talking about it but not sure. Also, where can you get it in San Diego?

 

I have to stop reading your posts, they drive me crazy

Nobody loses things on purpose

Ask the Hondata question somewhere else, maybe somewhere like, oh I don't know...The Hondata thread

 

That is right, the article also hits on that subject when it mentions Toyota's $40 billion vault that Honda cannot compete with.

I also found it interesting that at the end of the article the tone switched. Fortutiously it touched on the topic of gas prices and how Honda is actually positioned well for the future rather than the past and present. The reason I bought a Honda/Acura was its efficiency and reliability. For the most part the article concludes that because of the small platforms it uses Honda is putting itself at a disadvantage. Does anyone remember the 70's?

 

I don't understand why people argue over looks. It is completely subjective. I had a 01
GS-R and loved its looks-I still do. IMO the RSX isn't even close as far as looks go. Buts that just me and I don't care if anyone agrees with me. whatever.. The TSX however I think is MUCH better looking than the 4-door integras. To each his own.

Performance is a different issue. It is disappointing to me and I would think anyone that there are fewer options now than before bare with my memory issues) 01 Integra: LS, GS, GS-R, Type R(with I believe 3 seperate engine options) Why is there only two options for RSX? The guy who owned a Type R may like the looks of the RSX but doesn't have that 3rd(race car) engine option. IMO Acura dropped the ball there. Same thing with the TSX and TL. I'm sure a lot of us wish there was a TSX type S avail. and some TL buyers would like the choice of a type S.

Looks aside I think Acura could please at least some buyers by offering more engine options like they have in the past.

 

I'm hoping for this too. I think it will come in the future.

3 integra engine choices, but ony 1 TSX choice. RSX aside, all the ACura models are very new, once the initial buying craze dies down, we will see more engine choices, just like we see with the RSX.

 

She didn't lose it....it broke! The metal "key" part didn't break, the electronics in the "high tech" key broke.

 

The reason why it is the Honda Accord in Europe and not here in the States is because Americans are label whores. Badging is a large part of presige in North America for some reason. Plus I think "luxury" badging adds 15 hp.

BTW it is what you have under the hood that really matters in a car IMO.

 

Try the Honda Insight then. It's the ugliest but probably one of the most technologically advanced Honda out. Sure what's under the hood matters and styling may be subjective but sometimes just as important to the overall appeal of a car is my point. That's all. Don't get me wrong, I love my TSX.

 

But what are the chances of one's losing their keys (both of them!)... I've had 4 cars in the past and never lost any single key (*knock on wood*)... But I guess that's just probably my case.

 

Honda makes awesome cars. Every time I think I want something else, I am so glad to be back in my Honda or Acura. The TSX and US Accord for that matter offer luxury amenities at an awesome price. You also get dependability, great handling, more HP per L than american cars, and much better gas mileage. Honda 4-cylinders put out 6-cylinder HP and performance, and the 6's put out like 8-cylinders, all with great gas mileage. As for speed, yeah, it's important, but not as important as everything else that Honda does better. If speed is #1 for you, you bought the wrong car. I know a Mustang GT will eat my lunch off the line, but how about around the curves? It weighs only about 200 more lbs than the TSX, but handles nothing like the TSX, or even TL for that matter.

 

To you guys referring to the old Acuras like they were so great, I think you're forgetting something. The reason that we don't see these legendary little sports cars around anymore is because THEY WEREN'T VERY SAFE. The larger and more advanced structure of the new Acuras adds weight. Also, the old Acuras weren't loaded with luxury items like the new ones. That adds lots of weight, which is why the CL-S was barely faster than the Integra GS-R. And if you've ever gotten out of a Vigor, and sat in a 1st Gen TL, there's not much difference, but go sit in a 3rd gen TL. The interior is another WORLD apart. The interior of my friend's integra doesnt even't hold a candle to the interior of my first gen TL. And the new one blows us all away, and gets the SAME gas mileage as my car with 94 more hp.

I honestly don't think the Integra GS-R would sell today if they offered it new. Most modern Acura buyers want more luxury and safety, and 98% of people would be willing to give up 0.2s 0-60 for a better interior. That's just the way things work.

 

I agree 100%

 

I understand what you are saying about interior immenities etc... and I agree my TSX is a world apart from my 01 Integra. Although I did love the simplicity of the Integras interior.

I just wish we had two engine choices instead of the one. I think 01 Integra had 140, 170, and 190 hp if I'm not mistaken. TSX 200 or 220-230hp option would have been nice.