Carlos8542222

Two questions guys:

What kind of oil does the TSX come with from the factory? Is it Mobil 1, Castrol or another type. If it is Honda oil, is there a manufacturer that makes this oil for Honda?

Also, what viscosity rating does it have? Is it 5W 30? Is it the same viscosity rating regardless of where the TSX is sold or does it vary by region?

Thanks.

Dan Martin

You can use any 5w30 oil.

kurt_bradley

The initial oil in the car is Honda 5W30 with a special break-in additive that not only helps the engine seat properly, it also protects the engine in case it sits on the lot for a little while and gets no action leading up to its purchase. This is the same for all the US model TSXs (I cannot say what the Canadian models have, as I have never owned one or worked for Canadian Honda Motor Company as I have for AHMC). 5W30 is the only oil rating you should use in this car. Whether you want to use Honda, Mobil 1, or anything else, is your call. Let me also state that Mobil is the manufacturer of Honda's line of lubricants.

From an owner of 7 various Honda cars in my time (3 Civics, 98 ITR, S2K, RSX, TSX), 4 years of employment for AHMC, loads of technical knowledge on but not limited to Hondas, Acuras, and Porsches, AHMC technical certifications and training...I use Mobil 1 and change it according to the Honda manual recommendations. I drive my cars in a "spirited" manner, and that oil comes out in good shape every single time. I can only imagine how great of shape the vital engine components are in. I recommend that an owner use either 1 of these 2 oils: Honda or Mobil 1.

matelot

melted moose fat

Jim Holloman

kurt_bradley,

Do you have any experience, or technical knowledge, of AMS Synthetic Oil, (http://www.amsoil.com/, direct sales only at 1-800-956-5695 7a-5p)? One of their distributors (Don Nichols at 540-563-9501, http://www.lubedealer.com/donnichols/) told me that Mobile 1 changed their manufacturing processes in 1995 and the Mobile 1 today is not as good as the pre-'95 Mobile 1. He said to take some AMS Syn. and some Mobile 1, put both of them on a stove and cook them -- and that I would clearly see which one handles heat better (I have yet to do it).

Their catalog shows the wear scar for the following (smaller is better):

AMS Series 2000 0W-30 0.374
Mobile-1 Super Syn 5W-30 0.667
Pennzoil 5W-30 0.848 (with Purebase)
Quaker State 4x4 10W-30 1.497 (Synthetic Blend)
Mobile SuperSyn 0W-30 1.842

Wear scare diameter, mm, four-ball wear test (ASTM D4172), 40 kg pressure at 150 degress C, 1800 RPMs, for 1 hour.

I am surprised at the number for Mobile SuperSyn -- 2.7 times more wear than Mobile-1.

They do have a written guaranttee, regarding engine failure, that is available for the asking.

kurt_bradley

A friend of mine uses Amsoil in his RSX-S. He seems to like it. I just stick to what I've had success with. In addition, Mobil has recently reformulated it's line of oils. They now have extended life.

indydriver

Oh, the neverending "what oil to use and when to change it" thread. What fun. Can't resist. KB, I respect your work experience, but your bottom line is, "this is what I've always done and its always worked" therefore, everything else is wrong. If you are buying synthetic oil for your STREET car, you are victim of slick marketing and wasting your money.

ONE LAST TIME.....buy regular dino oil recommended in the car's owners manual, change it at the recommended intervals in the "severe" category, and enjoy your engine for as long as you care to own it. DO NOT waste your money on synthetics for street cars. It's like putting premium gas in a car speced for regular. Total, sadsack, I've been had, waste of money.

MemRheins

Personally I use Synthetic oil, for my street/Auto X car, and I guess Im a Victim of Slick marketing, however I also know a 1993 Honda Civic, thats had Synthetic its whole life, with 150,000 Miles on it, Which is in Emasculate Shape, The Components around the engine are finally all Broken in, however the block itself is still breaking in, in perfect condition

So Needless to Say, Im sticking w/ my Mobil 1

Im also inviting a friend of mine, who for some reason loves motor oil and this whole subject to this thread, wouldn't mind seeing his opinion to this...

Also Indy, Dont put Regular Gas in the TSX, your fuckin up your car, not saving money

vwong

I wonder if this "special break-in additive" can be purchased at a Honda or Acura dealership. Maybe that's why I'm burning a small amount of oil in my Prelude after the engine rebuild.

SodaLuvr

The TSX comes factory filled with a 5w-30 motor oil, which is a "special juice" according to Honda; I'm not sure if the oil is made by Honda. The only special property of the factory fill that I have been able to detect through oil analysis is the high molybdenum content. Note that most motor oils contain 50-200ppm of Molybdenum, where the Honda factory fill typically contains 300-400ppm. Here are some sample Used Oil Analysis (UOA) reports of the factory fill that came out of a 2004/2005 Acura TL, note that the TL comes factory filled with a 5w-20, but same idea, a high molybdenum oil.




However, I have found an excellent off-the-shelf replacement for the Acura TSX's factory fill, the Havoline 5w-30. The SM, GF-4 version of this oil contains 360ppm of Molybdenum, the same amount, if not more than what the TSX's factory fill contains. Therefore, there is no reason to leave the excess wear metals "floating" around in the engine when a replacement for the factory fill is easily obtainable, and of the same chemistry. Here is a Virgin Oil Analysis (VOA) of that oil.


Yes, I'll confirm that Exxon Superflo is equivalent to Honda motor oils.

No, that does not exist. The special break-in additive is simply an extra dose of molybdenum in the engine oil, it does not protect the engine in case it sits on the lot for a while.

I disagree. The 10w-30 motor oils have a lesser span, thus fewer viscosity improvers, so they are more shear stable. I'd run 10w-30 in an application where shearing maybe a serious issue. But 5w-30 is sufficient in most cases. In colder climates, I recommend a 0w-30 such as German Castrol 0w-30 (Please, only buy the M04 batches, the M05 batches have lost their green color) and Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30 because they flow better in cold weather. Of the two, I prefer the German Castrol since it is easier to obtain, and does not have the thickening problem of the Amsoil.


Mobil 1 is simply the best over the counter oil that you can obtain today. It is a Group IV, PAO synthetic. I'm not sure about the four ball wear tests since I'm not sure if those have been updated since the SM formulations have launched. The SM formulations brought along upgraded base oils, so that might have improved results. Thus, I won't comment on that.

The Amsoil is a great oil, and I can purchase it at dealer cost from lubespecialist.com. However, it has a tendency to thicken. This can be controlled by using Lube Control (LC) and Fuel Power (FP). The LC controls oxidation, which is the primary cause of thickening. The FP will lower insolubles, which is another cause of thickening. Keep in mind that some engines such as the one in the TL produce high levels of copper, which acts as an oxidizing agent, thus is not a good engine for extended drains or the use of Amsoil, if Amsoil is used in that engine, LC/FP is a MUST. Not to worry, the 2.4L engine in the TSX produces very low copper levels.

One thing to keep in mind: Amsoil rarely last more that 15,000 miles even with a filter change and top off, the thickening just becomes too difficult to control sometimes, even with a bypass filter and LC/FP.

I agree with you to a point...The new SM formulations have really closed the gap between dinos and synthetics. Synthetics rarely offer you more than 20-30% more service life, but they do keep your engine slightly cleaner. However, using conventional motor oils of a good quality such as Havoline/Chevron or Pennzoil with LC/FP at the appropriate dosage will yield you the same results for less, you can usually obtain 10-15% longer service life with the usage of LC/FP, since LC seems to help with TBN retention.

I won't say NO to synthetics, but they are very often, over rated for what they can do. They aren't very cost effective to a cheapo like me, when LC/FP and Conventional motor oils will yield me the same, if not better results; Synthetics used together with LC/FP will yield even better results. But for most users, like you said, conventional motor oils are sufficient, unless their engine is turbo charged, where synthetic oils are a MUST because of the excessive oxidation.

Michael

Dan Martin

Michael, good thing we don't charge by the word.

Nice post!

Xpditor

Michael,

Thanks for compiling all that good info in one place so we can compare it.

I think I recognize my Acura's Used Oil Analysis in the middle report.

-XP

ForceSHO

Do you guys recommened using oil with higher molybdenum content for the 2nd oil change or it doesn't matter after 5k ?

I think the only reason I don't do amsoil is because i can't get it over the counter.. sometimes its even hard to get mobil 1 5w30 at local shops.. I'm in flushing, Ny.. they always have quaker state or something else in stock.. everytime i go out to the islands, I stock up 4-5 5qt bottles of mobil 1 at walmart..

99 AV6 - Mobil 1 Till 115k and now Mobil 1 Extended
02 VW Golf - Mobil 1 Till 15k and now Mobil 1 Extended
05 TSX - Only at 2006 mile.. will go on Mobil 1 after 10k

kurt_bradley

I'd first like to start on the fact that I never stated that any other practice was wrong. A member of the community asked a question that also involved recommendation, and I supplied my own. I in no way knocked another product or stated that doing anything besides my actions would be wrong.

If you would have read a little bit more, you would have seen that I mentioned that I am a "spirited" driver. I not only drive my car a litttle bit harder than your average "street" driver, but I also put my efforts toward the benefit of others. I have worked privately for a group that develops better driving skills for those who desire getting involved in track days for their car. I have certifications from the following courses:

Bondurant School of High Performance Driving : High Performance Driving, Intro to Road Racing, Advanced Road Racing

Porsche Driving Experience : High Performace Driving (2 Day), Masters Course

Before you go off flaming someone for being a "victim of slick marketing and wasting my money," take into consideration that you could be talking to someone in my position.

On a side note: Michael, nice contribution.

Xpditor

I recommend changing the factory fill at 1,000 miles and to go back with Havoline 5W-30 dino oil as it is very high quality API SM, GF-4 (but look for that on the bottle because it is sold with SL, GF-3 intermixed on the shelf). A major reason for that particular oil is the high moly content to duplicate the factory "break-in" blend. I would change again at 5,000 miles. In all cases, I would opt for a Mobil 1 Oil Filter (alternately: PureOne, Amsoil).

Then, at 10,000 miles- I would assume that 95% of the break-in has been accomplished and I would (will) switch to Mobil 1 in the recommended viscosity.

I would then be comfortable with the MID computer indications for OCI (Oil Change Interval) which is about 7500 miles depending on driving style and conditions.

If you are anal like me, you could change every 3,000 miles if you are using dino oil. Changing that often with synthetic is a waste of money IMO.

My

ForceSHO

Too late.. i'm at 2k.. I might try to do a oil change this weekend, as I been driving it hard after 1k mile, hard as in +00 rpm each day to go through the ranges..

I hope I can find the SM oil.. been doing a lot of running around looking for specific oil

We done a lot of oil analysis here.. I got a LOT of honda filters.. that should be fine for standard oil change right ?

ClutchPerformer

Not necessarily....

Dino oil wasn't designed by mother nature to lubricate automotive engines. It just happened to do the job pretty well. And our materials science/chemical engineering has come far enough that we can make oils which perform better than dino in automotive applications. Think about it: One is specifically designed to lubricate and protect an automotive engine. The other is something we found in the ground that seemed to work pretty well at lubricating lots of different stuff--so we put some in an engine and patted ourselves on the back.

I don't have a link, but I'm pretty sure that synthetics have also been tested to perform better in cold weather conditions due to it's less drastic viscosity dependence on temperature, and this has nothing to do with how "spirited" you drive. This is why I use it.



Excellent post, Michael. Thank you.

indydriver

MemRheins.....I'm sorry your car is in "Emasculate Shape". Perhaps you weren't paying attention in English class and missed the definition of that word. 150K miles is no big deal, nearly every engine does that with standard oils with a poor service schedule. If it makes you feel like you are loving your car more by using synthetic, enjoy! It's just simply not necessary to waste that money and get excellent service life out of today's modern engines. Also, no need to get vulgar. If your comprehension skills were better than your vocabulary, you would have read what I wrote which was, "using synthetic in a street car is like using premium fuel in a car designed for regular". That certainly does not say, "use regular in a TSX designed for premium".

jlukja

MemRheins...sorry but you got by English Class.

Emasculate

indydriver

If what I said was taken as "flaming you", then you must have a short fuse. I admire your driving experience for a 25 year old, but hopefully you will admit that doesn't make you an expert on motor oil. After knocking my observations, you salute Michael's comments which basically agreed with what I said.

indydriver

See! I told you these threads were fun. How do all of you "long-interval" changers rationalize away all the particulates and combustion contaminants you accummulate when you don't change your oil for 7500 miles?

05_TSX_GP

I plan to just follow the maintenance schedule and bring my car to dealer for services and oil & filter change with the OEM stuff they use. I don't do track days nor auto-X, I only do "spirited" street driving (NO street racing), is my oil/filter strategy acceptable???

indydriver

Your strategy is perfectly acceptable. You will pay more for the priviledge of having the dealer do it but, there is something to be said for building a relationship there. BTW, you have the top mods planned.

MemRheins

Damn Spell Check Me...


Good Post Michael

05_TSX_GP

Thanks for your input. I realize I'll be paying more for being a lazy-ass and have dealers do it. But I am such a and have pretty much accepted the fact that I am MUCH better in the cockpit than under the hood , so just have to let someone earn some $$$ off me.

Thanks for you compliments on my mods plan as well. You'll be seeing this plan staying as just a "plan" for some time, I feel like keeping the car bonestock for at least this calendar year... will see how long I can hold out!

ForceSHO

I'm having a hard time chasing down teh Texaco SM version of the oil.. everywhere has SL sitting on the shelves..

Is the exxon similar with the high molybdenum content or similar as in stock honda oil ?

Honda2.4

I'd also check out Havoline Synthetic 10w-30. Flash point of 496F and a Noak Volatility of 5%. I had one guy on the phone today say this oil was PAO. If not, it has a good deal of group V esters to raise that Flash Point that high. The Havoline SM and Motorcraft SM oils are excellent oils.