meeno

Interested in the TSX. What is a fair amount down and monthly payment? My dealer quoted me $430 with 2K down and 15K miles per year for 42 months. I don't really like this number.

The problem is, he claims that the $2K is all just the fees, etc. Meaning no cap cost reduction included. I think this is BS.

So tell me, what are you guys paying?

If it ends up being 430, I might as well finance it for an extra $100/month or so

Thanks

Revanche

Just leased an 05 TSX non-navi, today in-fact, for $4k down and $281 a month for 48.

esCarbonie

I was recently quoted at 3k down 360/month for 32 months. 12kmi /yr residual buyout of 19,300
that was for an '05 TSX 5AT with Nav black on parchment

wclark

don't lease and be a panzy. Buy the stinkin car so its actually yours and you don't have ANY restrictions on it. You can actually drive the car, cause u won't have a limit as to how many miles u put on the car, and u can mod it and stuff.

wclark

cool I have that car except an '04

Howard911s

lease...............no way.. just suck it up and buy one.. u pay all those money to use it, might as well own. or own part of it.. i never lease. just buy

TinkyWinky

I agree, it's been a year and I already have over 16k miles.

ddrumeler

I just got a 6spd Navi Red/black for $365/mo for 42 mo. with $2,200 in fees and cap cost. I believe the residual is about $15K and change.

Howard911s

Im piss poor now. i just sucked it up and pay 1400 a month now. (my payment is only 260 a month) purchase...... it will be all paid off next march!!! exactly 2 years from the purchase date!

calgary2800

I wouldnt say leasing is that bad. I am leasing my car cause I KNOW in a couple of years I will have more than enought money to write them a check for the residual.

I am just on easy street with the low payments.

joerockt

But my mommy can't buy me one...

Not everyone mod's cars. Leases make perfect sense if you dont drive it much and like to change your car every few years. And you can pay a lot less per month then financing it, if you get good terms...

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Leases are not for everyone, but they are a great deal for some. For me, since I get antsy for a new car every few years, I already know that I almost always will have some form of car payment amongst my monthly expenses so I would rather pay the lower amount in a lease.

CJams

<-------Would never lease! Even if you want to buy it at the end your total cost is way too high!

05AT/Nav $6k down...... about $450/mo for 60

waterrockets

Leases aren't financially efficient. That's why a lot of F-500 companies are now buying their fleets instead of leasing them like they have historically. They do this even though they have high vehicle turnover.

I paid cash for my '05 TSX. I saved for 5 years, starting when I paid off my first new car. I'm now saving for my next car, which will be purchased in 7 years or so. While I am saving monthly, the amount I'm saving is much less than a payment would be because I won't have to pay any interest, plus my money gains value over the years.

The most efficient way to change cars every two years is to pay cash for a 2-year-old car, drive it for 2 years, and sell it for another 2-year-old car. That way you own it for the flattest portion of its depreciation curve.

Triz08

i have a 4 year lease and already modded the hell out of my tsx as much as possible

joerockt

Meh, paying 30K for a car upfront is a waste in my opinon. You might as well shit 2K or more of that down the toilet as soon as you drive off the lot. How's that for financial efficiency? You've already wasted 2K before I even made one payment of intrest.

samir786

$3,800 down, $380/mo including taxes. 48 months. 15K miles per year. spoiler included. good deal?

calgary2800

Lease what depreciates and buy what goes up in value.

Instead of paying up more upfront why not spend the extra cash you have into home improvement and watch everyone's most valuable asset go up.

waterrockets

Umm, you lose the depreciation AND the financing. I just lose the depreciation. You need to find the '+' button on your calculator.

waterrockets

<sigh> Ok, so you think you save more money on a lease than with cash? How do the leasing companies stay in business? You are keeping them in business with the extra money you're throwing at them. You're paying for the convenience of those low payments. By making more of them, and having nothing to show for it at the end. The buyback for the car is nearly always more than it's worth, so you've just paid a buttload of money for nothing but depreciation. If you pay cash up front, you lose the depreciation, but you have a car when it's all over.

The cash I spent on the car is not extra cash, it's saved for the purpose of buying a car. While the money is building, I'm moving it around to various low-risk investments, making more money with it. By the time I'm done saving, I've earned another $2K in investments, just because I'm good at saving. Then when I buy the car, I'm not contributing to the financial well-being of any lenders. I drive off with a title and $2K more car than I actually saved.

There is an argument for financing at a really low rate, and investing the cash instead. Unfortunately Acuras never go for those low rates. That did almost get me into a Passat 2 years ago when they were financing for 0.9%...

FWIW, we're just finishing remodeling our master bath, and the kitchen is next up--but again, that's not extra cash. It's painstakingly saved over long periods of time.

lamster

I think this is one of those arguments that would never end simply because there isn't a right answer. Bottom line is: do what meets your needs the most. If you want a new car but don't have a lot of cash in your hand, leasing is the way to go. If you're good in saving money then pay cash for the car up-front to avoid those high interest rates.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

While this may make sense for you, this means you can't get a new car as often because you need to take the time to build up the savings. Leasing is good for people who have a specific need (or in this case an itch that needs to be scratched).

If I pay for a car upfront and then decide to get rid of it in two years, then I deal with the value of depreciation (assume around 30% of the vehicles value). However, with good residual values (something that GM often uses to keep lease numbers low) I may end up only paying for 25% of the value plus a few points of interest in those two years on a lease. At the end of the two years, I can just get rid of the car and get into something new and not have to worry about the hassle of trading it in or trying to sell it.

So each system has its merits, but they work differently for different people. Leasing makes sense to some and not to others. So drop the holier than thou attitude because nobody is going to be completely right about this for everyones' situation.

waterrockets

People are emotional about cars. That's why this forum exists. I'll admit that leasing buys some convenience if you need to keep a late-model car around.

If you can come out 5% ahead of the leasing company, then why are they leasing? That's bad business.

Here's just the first of many articles Google turned up for me to back up my point:
http://biz.yahoo.com/pfg/e16buylease/

Holier than thou? I hope I'm not offending anyone defending my points. I'm not saying leasing is for losers, or that if you don't have cash laying around then you suck. My wife and I work very hard to build savings and curb spending. We aren't rich and don't act like we are. I started off by financing my first new car too. I'm just saying there's a price tag attached to it. That price buys some convenience but that's it. If it's worth it to you, great.

Howard911s

Here's just the first of many articles Google turned up for me to back up my point:
http://biz.yahoo.com/pfg/e16buylease/



Holier than thou? I hope I'm not offending anyone defending my points. I'm not saying leasing is for losers, or that if you don't have cash laying around then you suck. My wife and I work very hard to build savings and curb spending. We aren't rich and don't act like we are. I started off by financing my first new car too. I'm just saying there's a price tag attached to it. That price buys some convenience but that's it. If it's worth it to you, great.[/QUOTE]

excellent point!~ I can afford TL, RL or LExus RX without any problem what so ever, thats purchase, let alone lease, but doing some calculation and I dont see a need to get those cars and having a huge payment and gas/insurance bills, which i can still afford.. to impress anyone else other than myself. The money can just be spent so more productive on other things...

My friend make 35-40 K a year, and she suffer from that status symbolis.. LEASED a CLK 350 with sticker price of over 50K, paid 5K down and pay 625 a month, she even urge me to do it, said u sell ur car, the equity will pay for the life of the lease.... I told her.. well. i am 9K away from totally owning it. and be car note freee. why throw away all the equities i OWN now so i can drive a CLK and end up owning NOTHING AT ALL , in 4 years... that just does not compute... but i guess god created us different

RogerPodacter

dude you could have invested that money and made alot more from the stock market, meanwhile still paying your monthly car payments. your gonna prob make well over whatever your finance rate would have been. the market typically averages at 10% vs. 6% finance rate.

waterrockets

True, though if you can reliably pull down 10% over the next 5 years, more power to you. The average is more like 8%. I figured it out to be about a $450 difference over 5 years, assuming there are no more terrorist attacks killing our economy again, which wasn't worth the risk nor the management time.

rjheard

I can't find a reason to criticize someone who paid cash for their vehicle. Cheers on a debt free (or more free than most) life.

Lanny-M

Leasing is not as evil as some of you make it out to be.

How do leasing companies make money? The same way that banks make money; they charge interest. And since you are financing more of the $$ than you would if you bought, you will probably pay more in interest. I say probably because it is going to depend a lot on how much you put down, how long of a term, etc....

Let me use this as an example.........I'm going to use $29,000 as a drive-away price; please correct me if I need to adjust these numbers. You put down $6000, financed $23000 for 60 months at 6% which equals $445 a month. In 3 years if you decide to sell you would still owe the bank $10,032.00

Assuming you sell for $17,900 (which is my three year resid) your total cost of ownership over the three years will be $14,152.00

My lease is $352.00 month for 36 months, with $1250 due at signing. (6MT Navi).
My cost for three years of ownership is $13,570.00.

The reason I prefer a lease is that my cash outlay is less initially AND monthly.

Now compare this to a cash deal. Buy for $29000 cash, sell three years later for $17,800. Total cost of ownership = $11,200.00.

So, the question becomes, could I earn $2,370 with $29,000 to invest? Well, my bank was offering 4% cds for 18 months at the time (I know because I dropped $15K into one). That would be $1160 a year, or $3480 for three years. Less taxes, I'd still be up over $2370.00

And YES I know cds are not the best investment, but they're safe, easy to get, and guaranteed.

So in this scenario, I do not need to worry about selling my car-the lease company owns it. And I don't need to worry about about my investment (ala the stock market).

Bu t it always boils down to what works for your situation, what you're comfortable with.

The biggest problem with leases is that most people do not correctly know how to calculate them, and instead shop solely on a monthly payment, thus allowing a dealer to overcharge them.....

LannyM

Leasing is not as evil as some of you make it out to be.

How do leasing companies make money? The same way that banks make money; they charge interest. And since you are financing more of the $$ than you would if you bought, you will probably pay more in interest. I say probably because it is going to depend a lot on how much you put down, how long of a term, etc....

Let me use this as an example.........I'm going to use $29,000 as a drive-away price; please correct me if I need to adjust these numbers. You put down $6000, financed $23000 for 60 months at 6% which equals $445 a month. In 3 years if you decide to sell you would still owe the bank $10,032.00

Assuming you sell for $17,900 (which is my three year resid) your total cost of ownership over the three years will be $14,152.00

My lease is $352.00 month for 36 months, with $1250 due at signing. (6MT Navi).
My cost for three years of ownership is $13,570.00.

The reason I prefer a lease is that my cash outlay is less initially AND monthly.

Now compare this to a cash deal. Buy for $29000 cash, sell three years later for $17,800. Total cost of ownership = $11,200.00.

So, the question becomes, could I earn $2,370 with $29,000 to invest? Well, my bank was offering 4% cds for 18 months at the time (I know because I dropped $15K into one). That would be $1160 a year, or $3480 for three years. Less taxes, I'd still be up over $2370.00

And YES I know cds are not the best investment, but they're safe, easy to get, and guaranteed.

So in this scenario, I do not need to worry about selling my car-the lease company owns it. And I don't need to worry about about my investment (ala the stock market).

Bu t it always boils down to what works for your situation, what you're comfortable with.

The biggest problem with leases is that most people do not correctly know how to calculate them, and instead shop solely on a monthly payment, thus allowing a dealer to overcharge them.....

waterrockets

Your idea is sound, but you make it sound much easier than it is...

MATH ALERT! You wouldn't have $29K to invest for 3 years. You'd have to put money down, then draw your monthly payments out of it, all of which would come out of that $29K you have in cash at the beginning of the transaction. You would also have to keep a certain amount of it liquid for the purposes of monthly payment withdrawl, so you'd presumably have 6-months worth of payments sitting in a savings acct earning next to nothing.

I'm not going to run the numbers on this complicated scenario, but I don't think you'd be ahead at the end. Even if you were ahead by a couple hundred bucks, you would have spent significant time going through the ceremony of moving the money around. Plus at some point during the three years, the CD rate could drop and the whole thing would fall apart.

It's really tough to beat the banks at their own game. It certainly can be done, and it is often wise to use debt to invest. You have to get a screamer of a deal on at least one end of it. If we were buying Buicks, you'd come out way ahead leasing and investing. GMAC pretty much gives away money if you'll take one of their hunks of crap off the lot for them. It's a little tougher to do on an Acura.

Plus, the Buick forums are all just a bunch of 55-year old women. Not nearly as entertaining as this forum.

I actually think lack of self control is the biggest problem, but it stems from the fact that, like you say, people focus on the monthly payment. The danger is that if you look at someone like myself, with $29K in cash and the ability to make a nice monthly payment of $400/month, would most people really be looking at a TSX? I think not. With that kind of money, you could have a nice 3-series, even a 5-series sitting in the driveway. Lexus GS430? M45?

On the surface, my financial situation would appear to be unchanged, but my driving situation much improved. But after three years, I'd have nothing but my next $400 payment ready to go -- and nowhere to send it.

calgary2800

You guys that focus on every nickel forget something. How much is my enjoyment worth worth? I dont have a TSX but if I was to get one I could only afford the lease and at the end refinance the residual.

In 3 years I get to drive a gem everyday, I cant put a price on enjoyment for someone who isnt going to live forever. I can be stress free but having a Sentra, Corolla, just plain sucks.

What a few thousand here and there? In the grand scheme of thing its nothing.

waterrockets

[QUOTE=calgary2800]You guys that focus on every nickel forget something. How much is my enjoyment worth worth? I dont have a TSX but if I was to get one I could only afford the lease and at the end refinance the residual.

In 3 years I get to drive a gem everyday, I cant put a price on enjoyment for someone who isnt going to live forever. I can be stress free but having a Sentra, Corolla, just plain sucks.[QUOTE]

That's what money is for! The thing is that I need to spread the enjoyment around a lot. We have 2 kids, with one on the way next month, and my wife is a full-time mom. We are saving for three kids' college. Everybody in the house has hobby interests and needs, and even I have to keep up with a lot of my interests: cycling, woodworking, and astronomy equipment -- all of which are $pendy. Then there's the house, which this year has seen a new AC system (2 complete units for both up and down), a bathroom remodel, and the $6000 of property taxes we have to cough up every year.

A few thousand here and there means that we are lucky enough to enjoy our lives and prepare for our future, yet the only debt we carry is our mortgage.

rjheard

What it really boils down to is how much of your future earnings are you willing to sacrifice to enjoy a car today? Leasing for some makes sense financially and for others it's a way to enjoy a vehicle they might not to be able to afford using traditional financing. Like it or not most all of us get screwed by finance charges from buying or leasing but that's the way the world works. Living debt free (except mortgage for me) can be a really great feeling but sometimes it pales to the smell and feel of a new car. Different strokes for different folks.

jpooncanada

Totally agree!!!

I'm the type that really want to pay up front for it but can't afford it as there's also a new 330xi in the queue... the cash is for that instead...

waterrockets

Yeah, if you know you're paying more, and why, and it still adds enough value for you, then it's a good deal.

I think a lot of people just don't know...