exactly what i was thinking. wtf lexus?

 

i thought the dash/top of the door material was horrible. it's like hard plastic. wtf is that? i've never been in a tsx so i don't know how the dash material feels.

 

exactly. stupid lexus.

 

Actually, the IS was meant to compete with the 3 series. And to get the engine smoothness that was synonymous with the 3 series, they had to go for the I6. It's no fluke that BMW chose an I6 for its 6-cyl range. The I6 has no harmonic vibrations and it is the smoothest engine other than a V12, the V12 being smoother because it fires 12 times instead of 6 so there is a smaller gap between combustion.

The only I6 that Toyota had were the 1G, 1JZ and 2JZ, being 2.0L, 2.5L and 3.0L respectively. We got the IS200 here as well, so we got the 1G, which was a piss weak shitty engine. It was smooth, but 152hp out of 2.0L is something to laugh at in an era where a 1.8L I4 made 190hp. You guys got the IS300, and the only 3.0L I6 was the 2JZ-GTE. Take off the turbo and you basically castrated an engine block that was so suitable for turbo applications. 2JZ-GE... poor engine.

And with regards to the V6 engine, developing a V6 makes more sense because the engine could be used in the other models made by Toyota without packaging problems. An I6 would be too long for a FWD Camry (has to me mounted east-west). Spend once for research, sell the same engine over and over.

 

It's because of direct injection. I6 or V6 doesn't have a big effect on power. The only thing that can affect economy is that the valvetrain is duplicated on each bank and hence you get 2x the valvetrain losses. I suspect the 3.5L V6 has a balancer shaft (which an I6 doesn't need), so a little power lost there too.

 

My thoughts exactly. However, I think the TL's styling is dating very quickly.

I also looked into an M35/M45. Unfortunately, to get even an M35 w/ nav will cost about $50K. An M45 w/ nav would be at least $55K. These prices are another tier higher than even the IS350's price.

I think I'll just enjoy my TSX for another couple of years and get the next gen G35 or possibly the next gen TL, both of which should provide similar IS350 performance, MUCH more interior space, can be had with a manual, and be a good $5K - $10K cheaper to boot.

 

Doesn't the TSX have twin balancer shafts? It seems to put out a fair bit of power for a 4 cylinder.

 

My gf and I went to the Taste of Lexus today here in Houston. We drove the IS250/350, BMW 330/530, and GS300/430 and SC430 (it was a fun day and they fed us all day long).

The IS's they had to drive were all pre-production prototypes. They also had one production car on display. They had a nice little course to drive which gave you a chance to check out acceleration and cornering. I don't own a TSX but I've test driven an 05 twice. I currently own a 2000 3-series with sport pkg. With that in mind, here are my thoughts...

IS250: Very nice interior. I happen to like the look but I know that is very subjective. The seats were soft compared to BMW seats. The leather was nice quality. It felt better than the TSX leather. The drivers position felt a little cramped. The window and mirror controls are so far down on the arm rest it is hard to see them. But I imagine after awhile you don't need to look to find them, you just reach down. The NAVI system looks pretty nice, the screen is very nice. I've played with the Acura NAVI a few times and I think I still prefer it, but the lexus "looks" very nice. The rear seats are tight but livable. The rear seats do not fold down and that is kind of a deal breaker for me. It has a ski pass though but that is pretty much worthless unless you have skis. Not much skiing in Houston. I often haul things in my 3-series and I use my fold down seats once a month I'd say. The trunk is tight. The rear wheel wells intrude quite a bit. I guess you can get one set of golf clubs in there if you squeeze them in right against the opening. The trunk gets pretty tight after the first 1.5 feets. The side view mirrors are strangly large. They kind of remind me of a kid with large ears. I think they went a little over board this this. The window sill line is pretty high which I think contributes to the tight interior feel. On the driving course... the IS250 is faster than my 323Ci with the I6 2.5 liter. I'd expect that given the specs of both these cars. The breaks were awesome. Both IS250's they had were AWD. Handling-wise, the IS tended to plow in a little under hard cormering. The 330 they had there was definately the better handling car and it didn't even have the sport package. I guess if they had a sport pkg 330 it would have been too embarasing. The IS did handle better than most cars on the road, and honestly I've hardly ever driven a car that hard on real roads. The IS handling is certainly adeqaute, just not up to par with the BMW. The handling would not be a deal breaker for me. I'd say the handling is similar to the TSX's I've driven, but I may have to give the IS a slight edge.

IS350: Same interior as noted above. They did not have a production IS350. The pre-production car we drove had a "prototype" feel to it :-(. But if straight line acceleration is what you are after, this thing hauls ass! The kind of acceleration that puts you back in the seat and pulls that grin across your face until you are drooling in your ears. Very nice! And no torque steer :-) Handling still goes to the 330, but the 330 lags behind the 350 in an all out drag race.

One of the neat features in any of these cars were the ventilated seats. Even in mid Oct it was 95 degrees in the parking lot at Reliant. The GS's had ventilated seats, which are an option on the IS, and damn that was nice! My girlfriend was lovng it! I wish I could get that on the TSX. If any of you do go for the IS, the ventilated seats are well worth it, especailly down here in TX.

As far as value, the TSX still has all the above cars beat. If you prioritize on value, the TSX is still best of this bunch. If you can afford it, and want the best handling car, get a BMW with sport package. For all out accel, the IS350. The IS250 is a nice car and a worthy competitor to the TSX, of course you will pay more for the slightly higher refinement of the Lexus over the Acura.

Fun day of driving. If this event comes to your city, I'd suggest checking it out.

 

It does. It has to have balancer shafts. When you look at what the BMW's latest 2.5L I6 can put out (torque-wise), then our poor K24a looks like it's coming out 2nd best.
Info: BMW's 2.5L uses only Vanos, which is basically only the VTC part of i-VTEC, on both the intake and exhaust valves. K24a uses both VTC and VTEC to give i-VTEC and yet produces less power.

K24A2:
200 hp@6800 rpm
166 ft-lbs@4500 rpm

M54 2.5L
215 hp@6250 rpm
185 ft-lbs@2750 rpm

So, BMW's I6 makes more torque per litre, hence it is more efficient and more "powerful". It's 185 ft of torque enables it to grunt all the way up to 6250rpm before losing power. Acura's K24A2 on the other hand has i-VTEC as well reduced resistance to high rpm, so it can still reach 6800rpm without requiring the peak torque to be at high rpm as well (like the S2000).

Where you are, the 325i and TSX are almost the same price, so arguing about price and power is difficult. But everywhere else in the world, the 325i is twice as expensive as the TSX (Accord Euro here in Australia). Over here, the 325i manual sedan without navi or options costs US$53,925 while the base Accord Euro without navi and leather is US$25,875. So the Accord Euro still wins here on performance per dollar.

 

Edit: I'm not sure if you get a detuned 3.0L engine or an actual 2.5L in the 325i. Here we have the 2.5L version. The power, torque and rpm are all exactly the same though, so either we get the 3.0L engine as well but registered as a 2.5L or you get the 2.5L too. Someone please confirm.

And fix my post above, the 325i does indeed have valvetronic, which is the equivalent to VTEC.

 

In NA, we got 3.0L detuned as 325i. And E46 only have vanos but E90 have valvetronic. And with today technology a V6 is already as smooth as I6 and V6 is more compact and is good for both FWD & RWD so Toyota has nothing wrong to choose V6. And in Japan the Altezza has the sweet 2L vvtli that supposed as good as our K-series but Toyota has not gut to import the 4-cyl to america as Honda did on the TSX.

 

North America gets the 3.0L engine in the 325.

 

Cool. Looks like I'm going to have to ring up BMW Australia here on their E90 325i. Their website states that the E90 325i has a 2497cc engine but the exact same power, torque and peak RPMs as the 3.0L in the US 325i.

The V6 from Toyota is a smart move. As long as they can scale it up with small power increases for future model revisions or sports models, then they basically have the engine lifespan covered.

The 3S-GE. Yummy! It's with VVTi on the intake and exhaust though, like Dual Vanos, not VVTLi (which is same as i-VTEC). Too bad the IS200 came through Lexus and not through Toyota. Otherwise we could have got that sweet 4-cyl Altezza.

You know what would be nice? The 4WD Accord Euro with K24A2. Too bad it doesn't exist. They only made the 4WD sedans with a 155hp K20A. There is however the 4WD Wagon with 190hp K24A3. That K24A3 is also sitting in my Accord Euro, hence I only have 190hp compared to the 200hp that you guys get!

 

hum.. so no one has test drove the IS250/350?

 

while I'm slagging the new IS some more, I'd like to point out that the center stack appearance is sub-par even on the nav version. What's with the little clock with little minute and hour buttons right beside it. Looks like a radio shack digital egg timer i used to have. Why doesn't clock get time from the nav sat anyways like our car? also:Screen is just small/deep set enough to look dinky.

& on the non-nav dash is *way* too busy. & fuctionally it looks like they prioritized making the speed gauges look swish vs. function of said-same (like prev IS).

having just seen one of the current model year corrolas with the same taillights, the car looks damn similar.

now go to lexus.ca and try to get a 250 with nav. You have to buy the AWD. Now you're paying 60k+ in ontario with taxes for a super-corolla. With drivetrain losses and weight expect a zero fun to drive brick on wheels.

I really don't get it ... why would anyone with the money buy an IS over a BMW?

things I do like about the IS that should come to the TSX in 07MY
- DIRECT INJECTION (fuel prices matter)
- Paddle shifters on the Auto (for fun)
- more cushy seat leather ?

 

I did like I said earlier at the Taste of Lexus event. It's a slug the IS250, it's like the TSX, just with better interior materials, but you pay more too. But, the IS350, wow! But, I just think the interior room and hardly any room in the back seat don't justify me to buy it, plus it's an automatic.

You know I was thinking, is there any chance the G35 sedan 6sp manual with 298hp give a good challenge to the IS350 auto 306hp??

 

I just got back from the Lexus dealer - test drove a IS250 AWD.

I think it's priced pretty well for the standard features. I believe the AWD comes with some things standard that are optional on the other models. Basically, for right at $35k MSRP, you get 17" wheels (225/45/17 tires), leather seating, 10-way power seats, moonroof, 6 CD changer, homelink, auto-dimming mirror.

The only thing I can think of my TSX has that this IS didn't was HIDs. Plus, this IS, whether you like the features or not, also has the push-button start, ventilated as well as heated seats, AWD, and a six-speed automatic transmission.

I didn't drive it real hard, but I thought it handled as well as my TSX for my driving style. Speed-wise, it was pretty comparable to the TSX, but getting into my TSX after driving the IS, I realized how accessible the power is when you have a manual trannie. I don't know if I could give that up.

At the end of the day, while I don't think it's overpriced, I still personally don't see shelling out $15k to trade in my TSX for a new IS 250.

I have, however, been eyeing a used '04 TL 6-speed nav in the ads

 

remember 298hp is not under the new SAE standard. Nissan's hp rating is, well, overrated. My guess the G35 pumping around 270~280hp with the new standard.

That said, it's hard to compare manual/auto and different cars. my guess is a well-seasoned driver can hang with the G35 on the track. If you're just talking about fwy ass-hauling, the lexus might take the cake

 

I haven't yet tried to build and price one, but what is the IS250 AWD with Navi going to cost?

 

The one I test drove had the navi and no other options, and it stickered for about $37,500. The navi comes with a rear camera and bluetooth.

I think the only other option is a luxury package, which comes with memory seats, HIDs, power tilt and telescoping steering wheel, and a couple other things. It's about $2k for the package.

 

i just checked out the IS today. i didnt get to test drive it. but yea it looks awesome, but i still like the 330i exterior better. the rear of the IS looks better in person than in pics. the interior is just WOW....... the steering wheel felt so nice, and the seats are soft, however the dashboard looks like cheap material,everything else was nice tho. i think the interior size was okay. im 5'11" and i had no problems with the headroom and leg room. the backseats is like so tight. i swear the back of the IS looks as big as the back seat of my accord coupe. hopefully, ill get to test drive it one of these days.

 

I priced out the IS this morning and actually it wasn't that bad. At least it still cheaper than E90. The IS250 6spM with 17", leather, powerseat and sunroof is $42500Cdn and a similar equipped 325i is $50600Cdn but too bad IS has no xenon and memory seat and fold down rear seat, OTH 325i dun have 6 disk changer. If they drive the same (the manual from the old IS is really really bad and the front end are feel damn so heavy) and its interior is not as cramp as the old IS, I will pick it over BMW if they are same price since I have the faith that it won't break down every months like my E46.

 

damn, these guys are still at it:

http://my.is/forums/showthread.php?p...63#post3937663

after reading a few pages of recent posts, i can seriously tell you that i have no clue as to what they are debating about now...

 

:whocares:

 

Choosing the TSX over the IS250 is all about money.

If you have the extra cash obviously you gonna choose the Lexus IS250. If you are a bargin shopper and want the most out of your cash then of course you will choose the Acura TSX.

THATS ALL IT COMES DOWN TOO!!

/end thread

 

:shakehead Wrong on so many levels.

Out of the box, the IS250 is a less capable performer than the TSX. The engine is meek and the steering is typical Lexus numb. Handling is good, but not excellent. The IS is also a fair amount smaller in the interior and has poorer visibility. And those are only a few of the reasons not to get it.

 

i dunno...i was reading through that thread a few weeks ago, and to me it appears that a lot of the tsx bashers are either on a "luxury status" trip. there's a lot of "apples and oranges...tsx isn't even a competitor to is250" talk...i dunno if it's because there's an ego trip with owning a luxury brand like lexus, but a lot of the posters in that thread sounded snobbish.

 

my impression too...

i'm not sure why some lexus owners would say that. according to acura press releases, the tsx is trying to compete with the 325 and a4. one would also assume that the is250 would also be tsx competition, since the is250 does have its target set on the 3-series...

i know many here won't care, but, when i read these threads, i usually try to decipher the root cause of these type of posts.

at the end of the day, i could care less whether IS owners consider a tsx as competition. it's just that i find this behavior interesting...

 

I don't think so.

 

Speak for yourself, dude. So now the TSX only suits "bargain shoppers?" Gimme a break.

 

If it hasn't already been pointed out clear enough the smarter, not bargain, shopper doesn't wish to waste their money on the base IS250.

 

I've taken a couple test drives in the 250 and if the price was equal to a similarily equiped TSX it would be a tough call for me but with a $15,000 difference here in Canada ($40,000 vs $55,000) it's a no-brainer.

 

this topic is getting annoying.

 

So is your post, don't read it if it's annoying.

 

That's pretty funny. I'm the one that started the thread. I'm Tribal Fury.

 

You serious?

 

Yes, I am. Read my posts in that thread and compare it to what I ultimately bought (2006 TSX w/Nav 6MT RBP Ebony). Besides, who else on that forum could know the TSX like me?

 

I suppose that's true.

So you're still mixing it with good ol' 1sicklex, that ...

 

That's the same dude? Hilarious.

 

That shithead is all over the place. He goes on all the boards to bash Acuras at any opportunity. It's really quite pathetic.