TSX vs. 325i
02-16-2005, 11:54 AM
#121
Originally Posted by domn
He leased. Right now you can get a great deal on a lease at BMW.
02-16-2005, 11:55 AM
#122
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by domn
He leased. Right now you can get a great deal on a lease at BMW.
Dunno, I was reffering to what Saintor mentioned in another thread.
Although you can get a 325i Executive up here in Canada for $399per on a 48 month least with I think 3K down. Car comes pretty much loaded.
02-16-2005, 12:12 PM
#123
Team Owner
Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
It's always easy to get a good lease in the last legs of a model cycle. When the new 3-series comes out, the values on those E46s should got down and BMW will be eating some cost on those leases though...
02-18-2005, 05:09 AM
#124
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The new 3 series is still bangle-ized ugly IMO. However it's not as fugly as the Z4, 5, 7, X3, 6, X5 in decreasing order of fugliness. Once the E46 M3 is gone, BMW will only have performance and absolutely no looks IMO.
02-18-2005, 03:23 PM
#125
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Come April when the new E90 3 series start showing up at a dealer near you, BMW will probably have some real cut rate deals on leftover E46 3 series.
For someone that is only thinking of leasing, the numbers are close. The residuals are based on MSRP not the heavily discounted prices currently (at least $3800 cash back from BMW) And if you factor in the free maintenance, it's really a toss up.
For someone that is only thinking of leasing, the numbers are close. The residuals are based on MSRP not the heavily discounted prices currently (at least $3800 cash back from BMW) And if you factor in the free maintenance, it's really a toss up.
11-01-2005, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr_Dave
The new 3 series is still bangle-ized ugly IMO. However it's not as fugly as the Z4, 5, 7, X3, 6, X5 in decreasing order of fugliness. Once the E46 M3 is gone, BMW will only have performance and absolutely no looks IMO.
11-01-2005, 06:42 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by sauceman
Hey biker!
I was wondering about you today. Didn't seem to see you lately.
I was wondering about you today. Didn't seem to see you lately.
Biker, who still checks in once in a while.
11-02-2005, 01:32 PM
#130
$3,220 for snow tires!!
I went to look at a Canadian BMW 323i (174hp, 2.5L) yesterday just to check that the TSX is the right decision for the spring; the cars are about the same money here. In the rain, and with the optional 17" tires on a 6-spd 325i, I got the feeling that this car could work in the snow, with aggressive snow tires, but at what cost.
The 323i also comes with run-flat tires, on 16" alloys, which I would use for winter tires. Some quick checking:
4 x $250 for 17" summer tires (the car is undertired with the stock Turanza's, which are also, reportedly, lousy, and run-flats are expensive, and short-lived) +
4 x $250 for new 17" alloys +
4 x $200 for 16" run-flat snow tires +
$420 tax, here in Ontario
_________________________
$3,220 for rubber on a new car!
Frankly, I don't think that my teenagers would be able to handle a rear-drive car.
I went to look at a Canadian BMW 323i (174hp, 2.5L) yesterday just to check that the TSX is the right decision for the spring; the cars are about the same money here. In the rain, and with the optional 17" tires on a 6-spd 325i, I got the feeling that this car could work in the snow, with aggressive snow tires, but at what cost.
The 323i also comes with run-flat tires, on 16" alloys, which I would use for winter tires. Some quick checking:
4 x $250 for 17" summer tires (the car is undertired with the stock Turanza's, which are also, reportedly, lousy, and run-flats are expensive, and short-lived) +
4 x $250 for new 17" alloys +
4 x $200 for 16" run-flat snow tires +
$420 tax, here in Ontario
_________________________
$3,220 for rubber on a new car!
Frankly, I don't think that my teenagers would be able to handle a rear-drive car.
11-02-2005, 04:15 PM
#132
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Originally Posted by gdcwatt
$3,220 for rubber on a new car!
Runflats are also non-repairable, so if you get a nail in one,
it's automatically $300 to replace.
11-04-2005, 08:15 AM
#133
I'm the Firestarter
Originally Posted by gdcwatt
$3,220 for snow tires!!
I went to look at a Canadian BMW 323i (174hp, 2.5L) yesterday just to check that the TSX is the right decision for the spring; the cars are about the same money here. In the rain, and with the optional 17" tires on a 6-spd 325i, I got the feeling that this car could work in the snow, with aggressive snow tires, but at what cost.
The 323i also comes with run-flat tires, on 16" alloys, which I would use for winter tires. Some quick checking:
4 x $250 for 17" summer tires (the car is undertired with the stock Turanza's, which are also, reportedly, lousy, and run-flats are expensive, and short-lived) +
4 x $250 for new 17" alloys +
4 x $200 for 16" run-flat snow tires +
$420 tax, here in Ontario
_________________________
$3,220 for rubber on a new car!
Frankly, I don't think that my teenagers would be able to handle a rear-drive car.
I went to look at a Canadian BMW 323i (174hp, 2.5L) yesterday just to check that the TSX is the right decision for the spring; the cars are about the same money here. In the rain, and with the optional 17" tires on a 6-spd 325i, I got the feeling that this car could work in the snow, with aggressive snow tires, but at what cost.
The 323i also comes with run-flat tires, on 16" alloys, which I would use for winter tires. Some quick checking:
4 x $250 for 17" summer tires (the car is undertired with the stock Turanza's, which are also, reportedly, lousy, and run-flats are expensive, and short-lived) +
4 x $250 for new 17" alloys +
4 x $200 for 16" run-flat snow tires +
$420 tax, here in Ontario
_________________________
$3,220 for rubber on a new car!
Frankly, I don't think that my teenagers would be able to handle a rear-drive car.
11-04-2005, 12:26 PM
#134
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Originally Posted by CGTSX2004
Where are you in NoVA, man? You should make an appearance at one of the meets. 
11-05-2005, 10:27 PM
#135
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Originally Posted by Belzebutt
Don't forget to add $10,000 worth of options to bring it up to par with the TSX.
11-09-2005, 03:37 PM
#136
I wouldn't pay for the options to make the BMW equivalent, but those run-flat tires are likely to kill a few sales. You can't knock 4 years of free maintenance, though. And while BMW gives 12 years on rust perferation, I do hope that the TSX doesn't rust out like my two Hondas did, particularily around the rear wheel well.
On the weight distribution issue, add a full-size driver and passenger to either car and I guestimate that the numbers change to about 57:43 vs 47:53, Acura vs BMW.
Both are great cars, and while I got the feeling that the BMW would work in snow, if properly equipped, the TSX is such an easy car for anyone to drive well, and it actually seats five.
On the weight distribution issue, add a full-size driver and passenger to either car and I guestimate that the numbers change to about 57:43 vs 47:53, Acura vs BMW.
Both are great cars, and while I got the feeling that the BMW would work in snow, if properly equipped, the TSX is such an easy car for anyone to drive well, and it actually seats five.
11-09-2005, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gdcwatt
and it actually seats five.
the problem they mention however, is that the back seat is very bench-like and uncomfortable.
Oh well, I didn't buy my car for other people.
11-09-2005, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by fedlawman
I tried to build a 325i that's on par with the TSX at www.BMWUSA.com, but I couldn't find the optional FWD and 60/40 weight bias. Are they part of a $10,000 package or available a la carte?
true its a nice feature to have. but it is not worth $10000 unless you seriously are autocrossing. you will have to drive a lot to make up for it, or well really care i guess.
now the new 325i's are also faster than the tsx so its not entirely 10k going to rwd. but its still a lot of extra to spend for fairly competitive cars especially in this entry level group.
those canadian 323i's are about the same speed, but pretty stripped. the 325i when decently equipped is a very nice car, but its in the high 30s, and well it just depends on what you want to spend your money on i guess. you're moving into RL and m35 territory with the very highly equipped 325i cars (for real world pricing anyway), so always a tough decision.
11-09-2005, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by hans007
you're moving into RL and m35 territory with the very highly equipped 325i cars (for real world pricing anyway), so always a tough decision.
What do you mean by this?
Even a completely loaded 330i doesn't cost that much.
11-09-2005, 08:13 PM
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[QUOTE=hans007]true its a nice feature to have. but it is not worth $10000 unless you seriously are autocrossing. you will have to drive a lot to make up for it, or well really care i guess.QUOTE]
Do you guys think that if you keep saying $10,000, it will eventually be true?
A base 2006 325i stickers for $31,600. A base TSX stickers for $28,500. That's only $3,000 difference. (If you do Euro Delivery, the BMW costs about the same as the Acura).
In my opinion, the decision between the BMW and Acura boils down to form or function. If you place a high priority on value and amenities (xenons, power seats, real leather, etc.) yet still want an outstanding all-around performer, the TSX is the best choice.
If you place a high priority on performance and safety (chasis dynamics, steering feel, brake fade compensation, etc.) yet still want the basic luxury touches, the 325i is the best choice.
Really, there is no winner here. Decide where your priorities lie, drive them both, and go home with an outstanding sport sedan.
Do you guys think that if you keep saying $10,000, it will eventually be true?
A base 2006 325i stickers for $31,600. A base TSX stickers for $28,500. That's only $3,000 difference. (If you do Euro Delivery, the BMW costs about the same as the Acura).
In my opinion, the decision between the BMW and Acura boils down to form or function. If you place a high priority on value and amenities (xenons, power seats, real leather, etc.) yet still want an outstanding all-around performer, the TSX is the best choice.
If you place a high priority on performance and safety (chasis dynamics, steering feel, brake fade compensation, etc.) yet still want the basic luxury touches, the 325i is the best choice.
Really, there is no winner here. Decide where your priorities lie, drive them both, and go home with an outstanding sport sedan.
11-09-2005, 08:16 PM
#141
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By the way, here's one of the reasons why I choose to own a BMW instead of another brand. It's a video of me lapping my 325is at Pacific Raceways last month.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...64&postcount=4
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...64&postcount=4
11-09-2005, 11:36 PM
#142
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[QUOTE=fedlawman]
I think fedlawman sums it up fairly accurately in that both are good sedans, however they do have some unique differences that will appeal to buyers with different priorities. I looked at a variety of different cars prior to purchasing the TSX and can say that the BMW was not one of them.
There are just too many problems that come part and parcel with being a BMW owner in my books.
Originally Posted by hans007
true its a nice feature to have. but it is not worth $10000 unless you seriously are autocrossing. you will have to drive a lot to make up for it, or well really care i guess.QUOTE]
Do you guys think that if you keep saying $10,000, it will eventually be true?
A base 2006 325i stickers for $31,600. A base TSX stickers for $28,500. That's only $3,000 difference. (If you do Euro Delivery, the BMW costs about the same as the Acura).
In my opinion, the decision between the BMW and Acura boils down to form or function. If you place a high priority on value and amenities (xenons, power seats, real leather, etc.) yet still want an outstanding all-around performer, the TSX is the best choice.
If you place a high priority on performance and safety (chasis dynamics, steering feel, brake fade compensation, etc.) yet still want the basic luxury touches, the 325i is the best choice.
Really, there is no winner here. Decide where your priorities lie, drive them both, and go home with an outstanding sport sedan.
Do you guys think that if you keep saying $10,000, it will eventually be true?
A base 2006 325i stickers for $31,600. A base TSX stickers for $28,500. That's only $3,000 difference. (If you do Euro Delivery, the BMW costs about the same as the Acura).
In my opinion, the decision between the BMW and Acura boils down to form or function. If you place a high priority on value and amenities (xenons, power seats, real leather, etc.) yet still want an outstanding all-around performer, the TSX is the best choice.
If you place a high priority on performance and safety (chasis dynamics, steering feel, brake fade compensation, etc.) yet still want the basic luxury touches, the 325i is the best choice.
Really, there is no winner here. Decide where your priorities lie, drive them both, and go home with an outstanding sport sedan.
I think fedlawman sums it up fairly accurately in that both are good sedans, however they do have some unique differences that will appeal to buyers with different priorities. I looked at a variety of different cars prior to purchasing the TSX and can say that the BMW was not one of them.
There are just too many problems that come part and parcel with being a BMW owner in my books.
11-10-2005, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Nikki
Actually, everyone that is been in my backseat has been saying how roomy it is compared to the TSX,
the problem they mention however, is that the back seat is very bench-like and uncomfortable.
Oh well, I didn't buy my car for other people.
the problem they mention however, is that the back seat is very bench-like and uncomfortable.
Oh well, I didn't buy my car for other people.
11-10-2005, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
The only way I'd buy a BMW is a lease. Totally no hassle when you lease for the durration of the warranty. When your lease is up just trade in for another one. BMW has a lot of minor issues when it comes to rattles and squeeks but the dealers are generally very helpful in fixing them. It's a German car so you're bound to have a few issues but you're covered if anything major goes wrong.
11-10-2005, 11:36 AM
#146
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Originally Posted by fedlawman
I tried to build a 325i that's on par with the TSX at www.BMWUSA.com, but I couldn't find the optional FWD and 60/40 weight bias. Are they part of a $10,000 package or available a la carte?
11-10-2005, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by gdcwatt
I wouldn't pay for the options to make the BMW equivalent, but those run-flat tires are likely to kill a few sales. You can't knock 4 years of free maintenance, though. And while BMW gives 12 years on rust perferation, I do hope that the TSX doesn't rust out like my two Hondas did, particularily around the rear wheel well.
On the weight distribution issue, add a full-size driver and passenger to either car and I guestimate that the numbers change to about 57:43 vs 47:53, Acura vs BMW.
Both are great cars, and while I got the feeling that the BMW would work in snow, if properly equipped, the TSX is such an easy car for anyone to drive well, and it actually seats five.
On the weight distribution issue, add a full-size driver and passenger to either car and I guestimate that the numbers change to about 57:43 vs 47:53, Acura vs BMW.
Both are great cars, and while I got the feeling that the BMW would work in snow, if properly equipped, the TSX is such an easy car for anyone to drive well, and it actually seats five.
11-10-2005, 12:05 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by 05v6solara
What a shame! Is there any German cars today that don't have issues? I can't believe that a product sold for a premium $$$ falls apart/costs so much in parts. Any ideas?
People will argue 'til they are blue in the face about it, but the bottom line is, most people who own Bimmers end up being passionate about them, much like Honda/Acura fanatics are about their cars. I'm not sure anybody would be passionate about a car that constantly breaks down.
Dan Martin: Don't you think it's a bit ironic that you bring up BMW rattle issues on a TSX forum?
11-10-2005, 12:17 PM
#149
built for speed
While BMW owners may be passionate about their vehicles, most (that I know, with 15-20 3 series where I work) admit they have more problems than Japanese vehicles of the same age. They just say they are willing to deal with the problems for the "ultimate driving experience". To me, the ultimate driving experience includes being able to drive whenever I want.
11-10-2005, 12:17 PM
#150
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You guys can go back and forth all day on this but the bottom line is
it is ultimately a matter of preference.
BMWs have the prestige of the badge.. and performance of the two
(though I don't really think too many people are impressed by the 3 series)
Acura is coming up strong, and is the definitely the stronger in reliability and package. Simply put you get more for your money!
If you need more info go to this link and check out the comparison:
Compare TSX vs. 325i
Then go and drive both and pick the one that fits you the best.
BTW: I bought my 04TL used with about 7K miles on it for 30K and it will whoop ass on both, maybe you should consider that if speed/power is what you want.
Just my
it is ultimately a matter of preference.
BMWs have the prestige of the badge.. and performance of the two
(though I don't really think too many people are impressed by the 3 series)
Acura is coming up strong, and is the definitely the stronger in reliability and package. Simply put you get more for your money!
If you need more info go to this link and check out the comparison:
Compare TSX vs. 325i
Then go and drive both and pick the one that fits you the best.
BTW: I bought my 04TL used with about 7K miles on it for 30K and it will whoop ass on both, maybe you should consider that if speed/power is what you want.
Just my
11-10-2005, 12:32 PM
#151
My Garage
[QUOTE=fedlawman]
You make a good point, I think that the thing most TSX'er are trying to say is that you get more features for your money with the TSX. The performance dynamics are subjective and therefore difficult to put a price on. So if you are looking at straight up value, it's much easier to say that the TSX outweighs the 325.
The 325 is a great car, but you just get more for your money with a TSX, that basically what having an Acura is all about.
That being said, the TSX is not the best value on the market either, just a better one than the 325
Originally Posted by hans007
true its a nice feature to have. but it is not worth $10000 unless you seriously are autocrossing. you will have to drive a lot to make up for it, or well really care i guess.QUOTE]
Do you guys think that if you keep saying $10,000, it will eventually be true?
A base 2006 325i stickers for $31,600. A base TSX stickers for $28,500. That's only $3,000 difference. (If you do Euro Delivery, the BMW costs about the same as the Acura).
In my opinion, the decision between the BMW and Acura boils down to form or function. If you place a high priority on value and amenities (xenons, power seats, real leather, etc.) yet still want an outstanding all-around performer, the TSX is the best choice.
If you place a high priority on performance and safety (chasis dynamics, steering feel, brake fade compensation, etc.) yet still want the basic luxury touches, the 325i is the best choice.
Really, there is no winner here. Decide where your priorities lie, drive them both, and go home with an outstanding sport sedan.
Do you guys think that if you keep saying $10,000, it will eventually be true?
A base 2006 325i stickers for $31,600. A base TSX stickers for $28,500. That's only $3,000 difference. (If you do Euro Delivery, the BMW costs about the same as the Acura).
In my opinion, the decision between the BMW and Acura boils down to form or function. If you place a high priority on value and amenities (xenons, power seats, real leather, etc.) yet still want an outstanding all-around performer, the TSX is the best choice.
If you place a high priority on performance and safety (chasis dynamics, steering feel, brake fade compensation, etc.) yet still want the basic luxury touches, the 325i is the best choice.
Really, there is no winner here. Decide where your priorities lie, drive them both, and go home with an outstanding sport sedan.
The 325 is a great car, but you just get more for your money with a TSX, that basically what having an Acura is all about.
That being said, the TSX is not the best value on the market either, just a better one than the 325
11-10-2005, 12:42 PM
#152
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Originally Posted by waTSX
I've done a lot of reading on this topic, talked to a lot of knowledgeable people, and I still can find no firm consensus on so-called BMW reliability issues. Some claim they fall apart, many others claim just the opposite.
People will argue 'til they are blue in the face about it, but the bottom line is, most people who own Bimmers end up being passionate about them, much like Honda/Acura fanatics are about their cars. I'm not sure anybody would be passionate about a car that constantly breaks down.
Dan Martin: Don't you think it's a bit ironic that you bring up BMW rattle issues on a TSX forum?
People will argue 'til they are blue in the face about it, but the bottom line is, most people who own Bimmers end up being passionate about them, much like Honda/Acura fanatics are about their cars. I'm not sure anybody would be passionate about a car that constantly breaks down.
Dan Martin: Don't you think it's a bit ironic that you bring up BMW rattle issues on a TSX forum?
And yes, my BMW is keep falling apart and no, the dealers are not helpful at all! You need to prove them that it is a factory defect before they willing to warranty it.
But if it is running good, even it is 6yr old, it still very strong and still handle the best. But is it really way better than my TSX? I dun think so. Go to E46fanatics and see how many bimmer owners (including M3 owners) want to make their manual tranny to give them back the Honda feel.
Do you think TSX rattle a lot! it is mickey mouse when compare to BMW, and if you think BMW rattle like crazy? go drive MB, Volvo & Audi, you will very happy with BMW.
11-10-2005, 02:04 PM
#154
6MT or Death
Originally Posted by GIBSON6594
That being said, the TSX is not the best value on the market either, just a better one than the 325
Then what, in your opinion, is?
11-10-2005, 02:10 PM
#155
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by 1sweetTL
BTW: I bought my 04TL used with about 7K miles on it for 30K and it will whoop ass on both, maybe you should consider that if speed/power is what you want.
Just my
11-10-2005, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ianS
All BMW owners that were came from other European car will be very happy with BMW even it constantly breaks down.
And yes, my BMW is keep falling apart and no, the dealers are not helpful at all! You need to prove them that it is a factory defect before they willing to warranty it.
But if it is running good, even it is 6yr old, it still very strong and still handle the best. But is it really way better than my TSX? I dun think so. Go to E46fanatics and see how many bimmer owners (including M3 owners) want to make their manual tranny to give them back the Honda feel.
Do you think TSX rattle a lot! it is mickey mouse when compare to BMW, and if you think BMW rattle like crazy? go drive MB, Volvo & Audi, you will very happy with BMW.
And yes, my BMW is keep falling apart and no, the dealers are not helpful at all! You need to prove them that it is a factory defect before they willing to warranty it.
But if it is running good, even it is 6yr old, it still very strong and still handle the best. But is it really way better than my TSX? I dun think so. Go to E46fanatics and see how many bimmer owners (including M3 owners) want to make their manual tranny to give them back the Honda feel.
Do you think TSX rattle a lot! it is mickey mouse when compare to BMW, and if you think BMW rattle like crazy? go drive MB, Volvo & Audi, you will very happy with BMW.
FWIW, during my 2 years of TSX ownership, I experienced rattles (in the doors, dash, and sunroof), excessive paint chipping, a loose driver seat with a grinding/jerky power movement, wheel alignment issues (dealer exacerbated) and a defective transmission (throw-out bearing replaced under warranty). My car spent an aggregate of more than 50 days in the shop, yet I have never claimed (and never will) that Acura's are unreliable or lack quality.
You got a lemon. Move on.
11-10-2005, 02:47 PM
#157
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Originally Posted by fedlawman
You obviously have had a bad ownership experience with your BMW, and you've let everybody here know about ad nauseum. However, your personal anecdotal experience (which I suspect is infused with hyperbole) in no way can be generalized to apply to all BMW's and their owners.
FWIW, during my 2 years of TSX ownership, I experienced rattles (in the doors, dash, and sunroof), excessive paint chipping, a loose driver seat with a grinding/jerky power movement, wheel alignment issues (dealer exacerbated) and a defective transmission (throw-out bearing replaced under warranty). My car spent an aggregate of more than 50 days in the shop, yet I have never claimed (and never will) that Acura's are unreliable or lack quality.
You got a lemon. Move on.
FWIW, during my 2 years of TSX ownership, I experienced rattles (in the doors, dash, and sunroof), excessive paint chipping, a loose driver seat with a grinding/jerky power movement, wheel alignment issues (dealer exacerbated) and a defective transmission (throw-out bearing replaced under warranty). My car spent an aggregate of more than 50 days in the shop, yet I have never claimed (and never will) that Acura's are unreliable or lack quality.
You got a lemon. Move on.
11-10-2005, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ianS
I am not that lucky to have a lemon, I just having a usual average bmw. I really enjoy our local E46 community, since we share information, we all try to fix our problem together. Some guys even share the bill to rent a bay of a garage together. We all love our bmw and love our community but still cannot hide the truth that "BMW breaks down more oven than Ford". Go to alldata and see how long is the list of TSB, go E46fanatics and see how everyone worrying about their tear off sub frame, failing vanos, sticky shifter, water bump, oxygen sensor, control arm, cam sensor, sunroof rail...etc. just to name a few common issues. There must be a reason why everyone said BMW is high maintainence.
11-10-2005, 05:37 PM
#160
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Age: 53
Posts: 94
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Originally Posted by fedlawman
What kind of problems did you experience?
Also had a few dashlights burnout fairly quickly and a power seat that for whatever reason, at times decided it was NOT a power seat.
Nothing earth shattering I suppose.