i've experienced non-starts this past winter, i think 2-3 times.

 

I had a red top for a few years in my old car before I sold it and it never gave me any trouble.

They cost 3x as much but then again they last 3x as long as a water battery and stay alot cleaner.

 

i've never experience a non start in three years of owning my tsx and have the original battery. i am also running aftermarket stereo and amps...i'm thinking about upgrading to the optima for this winter just for good measure...and because i like to spend money on my car

 

lol well tip, don't shut off your engine than.. haha =] keep it running, use the drive through.. =)

 

I put an Autozone Duralast in my last car and it worked great. It had more CCA than the OEM battery and was less than half the OEM part. Let's face it, unless you have some unique needs (like aftermarket stereo) that requires it, why spend 3 times the money on something that is not needed. It won't make you car faster, handle better, increase gas mileage etc. Will it out-last three Duralasts? Probably not. Not knocking the Optima's, I'm sure they are nice products, but who really needs one? Just my

 

Happy you're happy with the optima.

I'm just saying that from a "non-enthusiast's (i.e. general population)" point of view, 125 for a battery is a tad overkill. Especially on a TSX. I'm not knocking on you, however, since everyone has their vices. For me, that would be golf.

 

so hmm, do you also mean that your car starts up quicker? you know how the tsx takes few seconds to start. i got around 2000miles on mine and the battery is good its juss that it takes forever to start. or were u saying that it starts better as in you not jump starting it anymore?

 

OK...i am a total NOOB!! what or where do you find those colors that you guys are talking about, being green, or blue, or brown....where does it indicate these colors?? And what do they mean??

I hav a 05 and I am still fine w/ my battery..

 

The cold weather here (Iowa) is giving my battery a hard time (and I run 0w-30 Amsoil, too!). Plus, it's only been 20-30 degrees, not like it's 0 or below. Even though the little window is still blue on my battery, I'm considering changing it out for one more suitable to this climate and, quite honestly, to a car with 10.5:1 compression.

Anyone have experience with EverStart batteries? They're highly rated on Consumer Reports, esp. for cold weather. I'm just not into spending $150 for an Optima battery that won't really do anything a $60 one won't do (for me).

 

There is a little "eye" indicator on top of your battery. When you look into it, it will show colors, blue/red/green? I don't remember, but there is a legend on the battery.

Could some of you be mistaking the TSX battery for being a poor performer because it cranks slower than a regular Honda? It was designed to do that.

 

Clean and tighten your battery contacts. It's quite possible for dirty contacts to let some juice through, but not enough to start the car or to properly charge the battery when the car is running.

 

With respect to what we can all agree to:

a) 10.5 to 1 compression = Harder to start up engine than lesser compression ratios.
b) The colder the winter temps = a need for a lower winter (1st #) viscosity rating on your oil.
c) The colder the temperature the harder it is on a battery.
d) With all the computers and electrical components (big bucks & dead car) in today's modern cars it is NOT advisable to be either the jumpee or the jumper when starting a car with a dead battery.
e) You can add to the list some other facts but the overall point here is that the battery is an item that should be well maintained, properly spec'd and replaced when you first see signs of degradation and decreasing dependability.

Now if you don't feel you know enough about how batteries work or how to tell the differences between them, I suggest you make the effort to learn. Your car's battery performance is just too damn important to be left to chance. The negative ramifications of a dead battery are just not worth the risk. Now I'm not suggesting that everyone buy a certain brand or model rather they understand their needs and budget constraints and act accordingly.

It is in forums like this that those who know can help those who don't but should. That is one of the primary reasons I continue to read and respond to postings on this site. This is what makes this "community" so strong and beneficial to all those who choose to join it.


I will now get off my soap box.

 

I sent some "Special Forces" on a recon mission and snapped the pics pics of JTso's Bettery and custom battery tray. Thought I would throw up a pic for you guys.

 

I agree, the battery is very small. I had a good laugh when I saw it the first time.

How long are you driving it between starts?

Having a voltage that is too low should not harm electronics. They may not work, but it should not be damaging. Having a voltage that is too high can and will damage electronics. But you would have to have something really strange going on with your alternator for that to happen.

I have heard some good things about optimas and some VERY negative things about them (i.e. they die, optima does nothing to help you, and you are stuck with an expensive paperweight). Granted, these were in cars that had quite a bit of extra stereo equipment. But these were people that were not incompetent as well...

But, for the price they are asking, I think a decent $60-80 battery is your best bet. If it dies in two to three years, you aren't out that much and it will get the job done just fine in the meantime. Most batteries will have at least a one or two year warranty anyway.

If you do decide to go with an optima, a redtop is made for starting engines, a yellow top is made for high current, non-starting scenarios. I have seen a few people use yellow tops as starter batteries, but I would probably go with a redtop since it is made for starting applications.

 

OH man oh man, He's gonna KILL you for showing us that picture




"Mr. White? We need to talk."

"Who is this?"

 

I disagree that yellow tops are not for starting a car with - quite frankly that sort of comment is ridiculous. That's exactly what ALL car batteries are designed for and to do. The difference between the Red and Yellow top is one is designed as a no frills 'standard' replacement battery, the other is designed to allow for the potential of discharging quite deeply before it gets a proper recharge (long drive or recharger clipped on overnight).
Both batteries are perfectly suited and designed to turn over the car and power its electricals, and in the case of the Yellow Top, additional electricals/electronics you may have added.

[excerpt from optima's site]
"The deep cycle characteristic of this technology coupled with its extreme resistance to vibration provides performance vehicles with the repetitive power they need in a spill-proof package.

If your vehicle has a lot of accessories like running lights, high-performance stereo/AV system, winches, or hydraulics, your vehicle demands more from its battery. OPTIMA YellowTOP batteries provide the extra performance and deep cycling capability that your vehicle demands."

"Vehicles modified for better engine performance demand more from a battery. OPTIMA batteries withstand the high underhood temperatures associated with these Performance vehicles.

If your battery is used in vehicles that demand extra reliability and performance, or if you just take pride in getting the best performance out of your vehicle, OPTIMA RedTop batteries deliver the performance you demand."

As you can see, there's no mention whatsoever about one only being designed for cranking the engine, the other not.

[further excerpt]
"OPTIMA YellowTop Benefits

Dual Purpose starting and deep cycling.
Lasts up to 2 times longer than other batteries.
Constant performance quality keeping your battery running at the same level even as it's being discharged.
More power in the initial 1, 3, 5, and 10 seconds of the starting process than comparably rated conventional lead acid batteries.
Ideal for seasonal use, fully charged, it can sit unused for up to 12 months at room temperature (or below) and still start a car.
15 times more resistant to vibration than other batteries.
Nonspillable and can mount in almost any position."

 

When you start your car, you use typically 5% or so worth of capacity.

When jumpstarting someone elses car, make sure your car is TURNED OFF. They don't need your engine running to start. All they need is that 5% to start their car.

And the difference between the Yellow top and the Red top is that the Yellow top was designed to be discharged below the 60% mark which would damage the Red top. To pay for this deep=cycling privilege, the Yellow top is more expensive and has slightly lower CCA than a Red top.

 

Honestly, I agree with you. But don't be so quick to label this "ridiculous"
look at the optima site:

http://www.optimabatteries.com/publi...utomotive.html

and click the link to the left that says "starter" it will bring up a red top battery...look at the graph and note that the red top does deliver more power during a start than a yellow top. A yellow top isn't much better than their generic battery. Since I doubt this guy plans on deep cycling the battery and just wants to replace a stock battery, the redtop is better suited.
Thus, my claim yellows are made for deep cycle situations and red tops are for starting. Will a yellow top start a car? Of course. Just not quite as well as a red top. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

 

There is not much difference in starting between a red top and a yellow top in a petrol car. You're not using a diesel engine with a compression of 18:1 that requires a red top.

 

I have a writeup on how to fit the optima battery into our tsx without ordering a special size.

 

I still have my OEM battery: it has a hard time turning the engine every time. Whenever I wash the car, I play music for 15-20 mins, turn the car on for 3-4 mins, turn it off and listen for music for another 15-20 mins. If I don't turn the car on, it will be dead in less than 30 mins.

OBS: got my car in July 2003

 

Sorry for sounding as if I was jumping down your throat - I wasn't. I mistook what you'd written as meaning the YT was not designed as a starter battery.
Mind you, the site does recommend the D51 as a direct replacement, and it has only 625A MCA (0ºC/32ºF), compared to 1000A for the RTs (although there is no RT51 only 34/78 which that MCA figure comes from.)
Comparing like with like, the D34 is 820A MCA - so quite a bit of difference, but then all figures shown in the specs sheets are low temp. I'd be interested to know their 20ºC figures - a warm summer day for most parts.
Also interesting, the Honda Accord 2.4L 4-cyl is the TSX engine, and it recommends a YT rather than RT. Was expecting it to be the other way round.

One are where the RT is substantially better is the warranty - 3 year replacement with 3 years pro-rata. The YT is 1 and 1. That's a BIG difference.

 

That's because there are no RTs in the 51R size, where as there was a YT in that size.

And the reason why RT has 3 year and YT has 1 year warranty is because YTs are expected to be run flat and thus wil not last as long as one which is not run flat.

That's normal for the OEM battery. Roughly 30 minutes max with the music. How do you wash your car and listen to the audio system at the same time? You wash with the windows open?

 

My surprise Aaron is that they (Optima) didn't see fit to design an RT version - as I'm sure there's more than just the Hondas that can utilise a 51 design.
Suggests possibly that the alternator doesn't kick out much to recharge the battery as quickly as other brands may do.

 

The 51 and 51R size are used for SMALL cars. Other cars that use this size are the civics and Mazda 121 Metro!!!! I'm surprised the TSX got this same 51R (my 94 Accord has a much larger stock battery).

Being that the 51 and 51R are for small cars with smaller engines, there was no need for high CCA in them. If you petitioned Optima to redesign an RT in 51R size, I'm sure they could make it. But I'd tread warily because the YT 51 and 51R were discontinued because of the small size. The thin plates were cracking, making the batteries useless (usually happens within a year).

 

Good Call.

I'm assuming your facts are on point which leaves that nagging question about "why the small battery in the TSX?" I think everyone who's ever first caught sight of that little bugger uttered or thought a version of WTF!!! Is that the clock battery? After hearing from others that it was not some new high tech design and was in fact failing the perform long term, I thought it prudent to upgrade it out of there.

Any thoughts on why Acura gave the TSX a kiddie battery??? If it's something as simple as maintenance-free feature or weight, I'm not buying it.

 

price?

 

Warranty replacements and bad customer PR? It must be something that is not so obvious or maybe the Pana people just bought their way in. Matsushita is mega-big in Nippon land... Who knows?

 

Price of batteries are similar. The price of a 51R and the N70 that is in the Accord are similar when you are looking at regular off-the-shelf sealed batteries.

It's weird that the previous CL1 JDM Accord got an N70, and so did the Prelude. Why did the TSX/CL9 JDM Accord get a 51R/N50 instead? Weight balance or space restrictions perhaps?

 

Edit: 51R is not N50. It's NS60.


The brand of battery I am using now has the following CCA in the respective sizes
51R: 9.4 x 2.3 x 8.9" 430 CCA, 80 minutes RC (reserve capacity)
NS70: 10.2 x 6.9 x 8.7" 600 CCA, 130 minutes RC

So within the same brand and same model range, the TSX battery size is only 72% in CCA and 62% in RC when compared to the battery size used in the previous gen JDM Accord.

So if you were a returning JDM Accord addict, you would only be able to play your car stereo for 37 minutes before it went flat, when before you could do so for 60 minutes.

 

I guess to quote above slightly, returning JDM didnt have to deal with half the power goodies we have now. ie xeon.

Anyway,
Since this issue began i thought of my radar. Using the voltage meter feature, i have been watching the voltage under various conditions and what not. Leaving the car for long periods of time and short. Ive come to a simple conclusion and have been a bit suprised/confused on a few things.

On average use, daily almost my battery rests at 12.8 to 12.6V, on accessory 1, no sesnors or anything running, just clock. On days its been sitting for a few its down lower to 12.4 or 12.5. Which by far isnt bad at all. Now on startup the radar drops down to 10 something. OUCH! As said above, some cars barely start on 10V. Well our TSX draws enough current to drop the voltage down to 10v.
Anyway, nothing too far out of the ordinary so far.

Now after driving a bit the car tends to rest at 14V on normal driving (14.4 to 14) depending on RPM, stereo what not. Which is completely normal. This is were things get a bit werid.
Granted when the RPMs drop the voltage output should drop. So we dip down to 13 14 volts. With the headlights off, the voltage will drop even lower. Driving in an area where the speed limit is around 30 or 40 mph, the rpm is about 2k? or so. The voltage stays really low, around 12.8.... werid.
Now stopping and going to accelerate, the car stays at a 12.8 12.9 reading. From what i recall ( ive been watching about 3 or 4 days now) the voltage will bounce back up to 14V once i hit a speed zone of 45 mph, and i get the tach up to 3k and hover at 2.5k or so.

Driving with the headlights on, its a different story. The voltage will stay at 14 volts and continue normally like i would be doing "highway" driving at 45+ mph. The voltage never drops lower.

Now this is werid, does the car have the ability to disengage or limit the alternator? or is something wacky going on. Granted driving with the headlights on, im not watching the meter nearly as much since i need to pay attention abit more. that and the screen is dimmer and not necissiarly something im watching.

The reason why i question the ECU is becuase trying to dip back behind the person driving slow and speeding up takes quite a bit of higherlever RPM driving to get the meter up to 14V meaning, it never happens until i go on the highway.


sorry if this is hard to read. studying for finals, or lack thereof. plus im about to head off to sleep. Any one ever watch the voltage of the car?

stock battery btw, 2004 tsx 26k miles

 

i guess i was a bit too long to edit.
anyway, i dont think i changed too much above other than a bit clearer on driving habits during the time.

added this to the end
=========
taking notice to the draw on a normal battery w.o the car running was a bit interesting.

with the car off:
pulling all 4 window switches up when windows closed (motor stall) -> 10-11V
radio -> drop of .1 to .3 v
lights -> drop of .5v
parking lights only -> .3v

there were a few more but i cant recall now. Wont be driving for a few days, quite possibly 5 days, battery parked at 12.8V curious to see what it will be at after that time.

 

Hi all,
just joined the forum today and I came across this discusion. I agree when i first saw the battery in my TSX I thought the same thing as most what a tiny battery. So being this is my first post I dont want to rub anyone the wrong way but geez guys it's a battery, maybe you're
over thinking the whole thing ?

 

Possibly - but then maybe it deserves over thinking due to the Optima being 2-3 times the typical cost of a replacement.
For some it'll be a case of a necessary expense, for others it'll be a justification on whether they need to spend that much extra on 'just a battery'.
For some, it's always a case of DFR - do 'fine' rightly, when they buy the cheapest replacement battery they can find.

 

Since you got the Optima battery does the TSX start quicker now like the TL?

 

So what are the part # for both the either the Red top Optima for the TSX, or the Yellow top battery? This will be good for future reference.

 

Sorry, whom was that aimed at? Me?
If so, then I haven't got it yet - I'll probably leave it until after Xmas before doing it, as I've other things more pressing to be doing first - car and non car related.
If it wasn't then perhaps you can specify whom you were asking, so they can answer your question.

 

Actually it's for any person who's changed their OEM battery to an Optima or any different kind of battery. Does it start a lot quicker now?

 

RT (34) - 8002-002
(34/78) - 8004-003
YT (D34) - 8012-021
(D34/78) - 8014-045

The difference between the 34 and 34/78 is that the latter have two additional terminals on the vertical plane for some GM models.
Otherwise they're the same.

 

I installed the Ever Start 56-3N, it's just a little bigger than the OEM battery but it fit with some minor modifications to the battery tray. It's 580CCA/725 CA, has a 24/72 warranty, and was $42 at WalMart (after $7 core return). Hard to beat that! Ever Start got generally high marks from Consumer Reports for their "North" batteries. Another one to check out is the Ever Start Maxx 1N. It's a little bigger than our battery but I think it would fit fine if you lose the battery tray -- it's about 1.5" longer and 1.5" wider, but same height as a 51R and it's 875CCA/1000CA for $65 with a 36/108 warranty.

In my opinion, unless you've gotta have a red battery, or you're running in extreme conditions of vibration, etc., the Optimas seem expensive.