After racking up 450 miles on the car, I decided to push it a little to see what this baby can do. I've been really easy on the car and shifting below 4k. Now that I'm opening her up a bit now I really know what you guys are complaining about on the DBW. I've noticed the rev hangs. And every time I gun the pedal to the floor and need to shift, I kinda have to completely let off the gas before I can engage the clutch or else the slightest pressure on the gas pedal will send the rpms climbing. When shifting quick this becomes nearly impossible. I've been driving a manual for 8 years and my last car was a B16 with a real throttle cable so I really need to get used to this new technology. I know Honda has been attempting to remedy this on the SI (I've never driven it so I can't compare), but I'm not exactly sure if a fix is coming for the tsx. I don't mean to create this thread to complain about this exsisting problems that AZ members are already aware of, but maybe a few pointers for this newbie will be appreciated.

 

Yup, they haven't quite mastered the DBW.
I have been able to adjust my timing to limit the rev-hanging. I used to have a problem when releasing the clutch pedal if the revs dropped below the right point... then, I got this damned hesitation and the car really jerks... I've mostly had this shifting from 1st to 2nd.
I've been able to avoid it mostly by really speeding up the shift and releasing before the engine drops below the correct engagement point...

 

I still screw up from time to time but I've mostly gotten used to the counter-intuitive DBW programming. The flip side is that if the TSX is the only manual transmission car I drive for a long time, driving a car with a proper and even perfect throttle takes a lot of getting used to. I appreciate the irony...

 

The DBW is absolutely pathetic. I don't know what kind of a retard came up with the software for it, but it kills the fun of driving the moment you decide to push the car and focus on the road instead of the stupid gas-peddal.

Forget about the jerk you get when you decide to resume accelerating after coasting. I've totally given up on it.

The DBW is an insult to an otherwise magnificent car. Honda really f***ed up on this one.

 

You said it... I swear I love almost everything about the TSX--the equipment, the logical design, the chassis, the power, etc... The car fits like a freakin glove. However, the throttle blemishes an otherwise perfect machine (for me, anyway).

 

It's all about getting used to the DBW. I just let up the accelerator a moment before I clutch in. If it was at the quarter mile track, I would just release accelerator and clutch in at the same time. Who cares about the revs climbing when you need all the acceleration you can get?

 

I find that the gas pedal control is the most important element to sprinted driving in between corners. With that said I find that the DBW on the TSX is pretty good, it does hang maybe for a split second if your used to throttle cable implementation, but its not that bad. I find that DBW does give you the benefit of precise throttling. I don't really have any jerking issues, I just control that with the clutch. It did take me awhile to get used to the touchyness of DBW, a light flywheel made a world of difference in throttle response though.

 

I think the DBW system is great.

 

Once you're used to it, DBW is fine. The best DBW I've ever felt was on my dad's Porsche Boxster S, then 2nd was my buddy's new BMW 3. Either way, Acura still has a lot to learn about DBW. It seemed to be better after Hondata as well.

 

Seriously? One can learn to control it with the clutch and timing of shifting, but I wouldn't call a system that requires you to change driving style great! I've driven many different MT cars over the last 17 years, and while the tranny itself is awesome, the DBW takes away from its near-perfection...

 

Yes, we all know that you can "get used to it", etc... I have, everyone has already. Most of us can drive our TSX proficiently now and we absolutely love the car to death. But anyone who clings to that argument to qualify the DBW system is completely missing the point.

There's something to be said for intuitive design. If something requires you to "get used to it", it is not intuitive. The DBW system on the TSX is sluggish and unpredictable. It's also completely out of the character for the otherwise refreshingly intuitive nature of the car.

I'm not sure what the goal was in designing the system but it sure wasn't spirited or focused drivers. It was was probably an attempt to appease the cell-phone-using, coffee-sipping, MP3-flipping, McMuffin-eating lot that is too preoccupied to notice bad design or the fact that they just slammed into someone in rush hour

We don't accept sluggishness, unpredictability, "jerky" response, "touchyness", etc from the steering system or even the brakes. Why is it somehow acceptable to some people on the throttle--the thing that controls a 200+ horsepower chunk of aluminum in your front lap? Wouldn't you be even more proud of your TSX if the DBW throttle was like the rest of the car? I sure as hell would be.

 

I like your thinking. I've been getting tired of people justifying TSX's few shortcomings in the name of "Oh you'll get used to it".

It's funny this whole DBW issue is not even a design-flaw or something that can't be fixed. It's a god-damn software that has a bunch of variables set to the wrong values. There's nothing to it. All Honda has to do to fix the issue is change the value of some of those variables.

I wish someone could hack the software just like the ECU software.

A $30,000 car should not jerk when it resumes to accelerate from coasting(How much f***ing fuel are we saving by shutting off the injectors anyway?)

A 6-speed car with short-gears and close ratios(screaming for spirited driving) should not require the driver to dedicate much of his focus to how to synchronize the movement of his feet on the clutch and the gas peddal. This is a safety flaw and could result in tragic death of younger drivers with less experience.

oh yeah, I'm sure they can get used to it, but hopefully before they hit something.

 

I don't know about you, but I've had NO jerking whatsoever. Perhaps driving style has something to do with it? I've had no problems whatsoever with jerking.

 

If this one aspect was fixable, I think the car would be as close to perfect as I need a car to be. I still love it, but dbw is a pain in the ass.

 

Then you're accelerating wear on the clutch. I'm talking about going from coasting to applying throttle, not during shifting. If you are feathering the clutch to compensate for the dbw, then you are essentially slipping the clutch and wearing it faster.

 

I was quoting another member when I used that word specifically. I have experienced abrupt response from the throttle when driving casually and upshifting, especially from 1st to 2nd. It does make the car "jerk" or hiccup (for lack of a better word).

You can also feel it as you modulate between coasting and applying power--even with the slightest touch of the throttle, there is a hard switch.

Every single person except for one who has driven my car experiences this phenomenon. The one person that didn't experience this would burn my poor clutch down between each gear. Fortunately he only drove the car for about 20 minutes.

I cringed each time he changed gears or otherwise touched the clutch pedal. Of course he didn't think he was putting excessive wear on the clutch, but as a former mechanic and reasonably observant driver, I know he was.

It is only my familiarity with the car after 7 months of ownership that has helped me avoid the abrupt response without needlessly shaving thousands of miles off the life of my clutch between gears.

At any rate, if you've never ever experienced an abrupt shift in your TSX, then it is entirely reasonable to assume that your driving style involves slipping the clutch much more than some of us are comfortable with. Good luck with all that.

 

That's cause you have an AUTOMATIC. Its a much bigger problem / complaint for our MT brethren.

 

Ahhh... that explains the confusion then. I'm glad to know I'm not the only MT owner who has misgivings about the DBW throttle.

I really hope that the next generation TSX has a much more refined throttle, and of course that the rest of the car remains as competent as our generation.

 

We'll I've driven both, and for a long time before I even bought the car. Didn't seem like a certain problem for me while I was buying it. I was allowed to take the car on a few long runs both MT and AT at my dealership a couple times throughout the week before actually buying the AT. Or maybe it's just me.

I never notice anything unless it's like my car blowing up.

 

Simple...emissions and packaging. Keeping the throttle plate from slamming closed quickly reduces emissions. That and DBW allows for traction control and simplifies/improves cruise control function.

And the DBW works just fine on my M/T TSX. I drive numerous cars for a living so adjusting to "different" cars is easy.

 

For me, DBW becomes the most aggravating when I'm rev-matching my downshifts. Because each blip is unpredictable, I've resigned to the fact that I have to slightly over-rev and wait for the RPMs to drop before releasing the clutch pedal which doesn't allow me to be as quick and in control around curves as I'd like to be.

 

I just smoothly let the clutch out, I don't overrev.

 

I don't have problems with jerkyness when upshifting. I don't ride the clutch. My clutch is either in or out. The time in between is less than 0.5 seconds. Bad shifting habits for those who do it jerky. They don't wait for the RPM to fall to the correct point or wait too long.

But I agree with the cruising and apply power problem. It's like the first step in power applied by the software is too big.

 

It seems like you're pretty confident about your assumption, despite knowing the fact that you're pretty much in minority here(There have been more people complaining about the DBW than those who haven't).

I guess the majority of TSX MT drivers have a bad shifting habbit.

A training program by Acura would make them millions of dollars considering the huge demand for this car.


Then why are you contradicting yourself here?!! That's what we're complaining about. The DBW application of throttle is not linear hence pretty much impossible to predict. This makes it NOT intuitive.

This problem becomes 10x maginfied in the MT TSX.

 

Are you not confident in yourself to learn how to drive the TSX on your own?

They are 2 different problems. One is the tendency of the DBW to hold the throttle open a fraction of a second longer right after you release the accelerator to shift. The other is the DBW's first step in throttle opening being too large, resulting in a jerk when you first apply throttle. So I am not contradicting myself. I have overcome the first problem, but the 2nd is unavoidable and is silly of Acura to not rectify it, at least during the 2006 revision with the engine update.

It was already advertised by Acura that the TSX's DBW is not linear in order to improve response. The linearity of the throttle only comes into effect when you are moving, in gear and clutch out. But, why does the throttle have to be linear? What problem does it cause? Throttle non-linearity is not the cause of the jerkyness during low speed cruising, jerkyness during throttle on-off when cruising at normal speeds, nor does it cause the problem that people have with shifting smoothly. These cases of jerkyness are caused by the 2 problems I described above, but not caused by throttle non-linearity.

 

I agree that waiting for the revs to drop to the correct point is the key to smooth shifting with the TSX.

The coasting to applying power problem is the stickler. Man, you'd think that if it's a software problem some fix would be in the offing. I would even pay for it

 

I'd also pay for that fix if it became available!

 

umm, you did test drive it before you bought it, right? and the DBW would be one of the few things you would immediately notice on a short test drive.....

 

The DBW issue is no doubt a problem. I hate it when the car jerks back and forth sometimes during low speed 1st to 2nd shifting. It behaves like the car is out of gas then comes back on again, and it can last for while if not manually corrected by the driver. What I usually do when it happens is to step on the clutch and apply more gas, then release the clutch for the problem to go away. You almost have to drive more aggressively to avoid it. I agree that it should not be like that. I have experienced the similar problem on other Honda cars with cable throttle if the TPS is adjusted incorrectly on the TB causing the ECU to misinterpret the throttle positioning signal.

Regarding the cruising and apply power issue that people are mentioning, do you mean the car feels like sudden power kicks in (like more torque during down shift, or VTEC engaging) when stepping on the gas pedal?

 

I noticed the DBW behavior from the get-go, as I'm sure most people did. It showed itself whilst pulling out of the dealership lot.

 

Yes, the transition from coasting to power is abrupt, even if you barely depress the accelerator. It is as though the minimum angle for the throttle plate is 10% no matter what. Or it could be that the ECU deliberately spikes the throttle plate (maybe as a gimmick to mask hesitation?) as soon as you touch the accelerator.

At any rate, the throttle plate clearly does not parallel what your foot does. The ECU makes some programmatic assumptions.

I've looked over the DBW hardware to see if there is any hope for adjustment. Sadly, tweaking both the "accelerator position sensor" and the throttle cable tension would not yield any improvement. The problem lies in how the ECU interprets the signal from the sensor and controls the throttle body.

 

I had it too, but didn't recognize it for what it was... I just assumed that I had to adjust my timing to the car... it wasn't an issue when I pushed it a bit, which I did, since I was test driving the car!

JTso is right. the problem is mostly apparent when shifting at low revs. If you push the car just a bit more, it is not as much of a problem!

 

Honda needs to provide each of us with a Comptech Supercharger kit in order to rectify the DBW debacle. That would make me a completely satisfied customer.

 

LOL! although when you think about it, what good is a SC when that motherfffffffing hesitation kicks in at 7100rpm?!!!

 

I'd probably be having too much fun to notice