Semi OT: Peta Vs Leather Seats
02-07-2005, 01:02 PM
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Semi OT: Peta Vs Leather Seats
Anyone think that Acura will follow?
Wanna Ride in My Mercedes w/ Genuine Cloth Seats?
Wanna Ride in My Mercedes w/ Genuine Cloth Seats?
BERLIN (Reuters) - Mercedes-Benz has agreed to offer "leather-free" versions of all its luxury cars to pacify an animal rights group that says thousands of cows are slaughtered each year for leather car seats and interiors.
After complaints from the German chapter of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, DaimlerChrysler said its Mercedes subsidiary will offer fabric or synthetic leather as options. Daimler spokeswoman Ursula Mertzig-Stein said that far from wanting leather-free cars, "our customers ... are more likely to want even more leather at the premium end. But we'll make cars without leather on demand."
PETA officials, who had threatened protests at the carmaker's Stuttgart headquarters, said they were delighted.
"When you consider that the skins of four to 15 cows are needed for each car this means thousands of cows will be spared," said PETA researcher Edmund Haferbeck. "This is a huge victory for animal rights."
After complaints from the German chapter of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, DaimlerChrysler said its Mercedes subsidiary will offer fabric or synthetic leather as options. Daimler spokeswoman Ursula Mertzig-Stein said that far from wanting leather-free cars, "our customers ... are more likely to want even more leather at the premium end. But we'll make cars without leather on demand."
PETA officials, who had threatened protests at the carmaker's Stuttgart headquarters, said they were delighted.
"When you consider that the skins of four to 15 cows are needed for each car this means thousands of cows will be spared," said PETA researcher Edmund Haferbeck. "This is a huge victory for animal rights."
02-07-2005, 01:06 PM
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i hope so. from what i hear, a lot of the acura interior is already synthetic. but ALOT isnt enough to some people. after looking at the rdx, i dont think honda really cares what peta thinks. the rdx contains skin from every animal alive. which made me real mad when i saw that. i feel like they are taking a step into the past, not into the future. synthetic leather last longer and is easier to maintain, and doesnt require death and torture.
02-07-2005, 01:32 PM
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4 to 15 cows eh? And what, do they just throw the rest of the cow out after they take the skin? No its used for food in some form or another so how exactly is this saving cows? The companies who were taking that meat still need it.
02-07-2005, 02:36 PM
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Leather is the byproduct of the slaughter of cattle for food. The hides would go to waste if they were not made into leather, and more petroleum would be wasted producing pleather.
Remember how the North American Indians were praised for using all the parts of the buffalo so nothing was wasted? That's what we're doing here. That means the cost of food is lower, so there is less "hunger"--not that that is a problem in the U.S.
Please send a donation to:
Animals for the Ethical Treatment of People
c/o my personal bank account
Remember how the North American Indians were praised for using all the parts of the buffalo so nothing was wasted? That's what we're doing here. That means the cost of food is lower, so there is less "hunger"--not that that is a problem in the U.S.
Please send a donation to:
Animals for the Ethical Treatment of People
c/o my personal bank account
02-07-2005, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr. T
Leather is the byproduct of the slaughter of cattle for food. The hides would go to waste if they were not made into leather, and more petroleum would be wasted producing pleather.
Remember how the North American Indians were praised for using all the parts of the buffalo so nothing was wasted? That's what we're doing here. That means the cost of food is lower, so there is less "hunger"--not that that is a problem in the U.S.
Please send a donation to:
Animals for the Ethical Treatment of People
c/o my personal bank account
Remember how the North American Indians were praised for using all the parts of the buffalo so nothing was wasted? That's what we're doing here. That means the cost of food is lower, so there is less "hunger"--not that that is a problem in the U.S.
Please send a donation to:
Animals for the Ethical Treatment of People
c/o my personal bank account
& 
02-07-2005, 02:50 PM
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It really doessn't matter if MB doesn't use as much leather in thier cars, as the same amount of cows will be killed for food.
I know VW and BMW use a great alternate to leather, they call it leatherette and it's made from Deer Hide.
I know VW and BMW use a great alternate to leather, they call it leatherette and it's made from Deer Hide.
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02-07-2005, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by superballs
i hope so. from what i hear, a lot of the acura interior is already synthetic. but ALOT isnt enough to some people. after looking at the rdx, i dont think honda really cares what peta thinks. the rdx contains skin from every animal alive. which made me real mad when i saw that. i feel like they are taking a step into the past, not into the future. synthetic leather last longer and is easier to maintain, and doesnt require death and torture.
Or cow hugger in this case...
02-07-2005, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by gt0279a
It really doessn't matter if MB doesn't use as much leather in thier cars, as the same amount of cows will be killed for food.
I know VW and BMW use a great alternate to leather, they call it leatherette and it's made from Deer Hide.
I know VW and BMW use a great alternate to leather, they call it leatherette and it's made from Deer Hide.
I thought leatherette was entirely synthetic?
02-07-2005, 03:22 PM
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Hmm.. I didn't know that they torhure the cows before taking their skins off. Now that's where I draw the line. It's cool with me if they are killing them for the meat, then taking the skins, but torchure, that's not right!
Do they make them dance around while they shoot at their legs? ...or hoofs? Do they keep them up all night while playing load rock n roll? Maybe the make them shoot their other cow friends or deciede who among them will be killed first? They could even tie them up then drag them around the farm by their hind legs, in front of all the other cows? Ofcourse, this is all speculation.
BTW
I love hambergers and my new TSX with leather interior.
Do they make them dance around while they shoot at their legs? ...or hoofs? Do they keep them up all night while playing load rock n roll? Maybe the make them shoot their other cow friends or deciede who among them will be killed first? They could even tie them up then drag them around the farm by their hind legs, in front of all the other cows? Ofcourse, this is all speculation.
BTW
I love hambergers and my new TSX with leather interior.
02-07-2005, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CSpaR
Hmm.. I didn't know that they torhure the cows before taking their skins off. Now that's where I draw the line. It's cool with me if they are killing them for the meat, then taking the skins, but torchure, that's not right!
I thought you were being serious for a second.
02-07-2005, 05:04 PM
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That's my east coast sarcasm. This isn't the old west, nor is it 1820. They have the slaughter process down to a science now, using every piece of the cow. If they can make $ from it, they will use it. Read a great book called "Fast Food Nation". If you live and die by fast food, maybe you want to skip it. lol
Cows...them's good eat'ins!
Cows...them's good eat'ins!
02-07-2005, 06:30 PM
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Do they make them dance around while they shoot at their legs? ...or hoofs? Do they keep them up all night while playing load rock n roll? Maybe the make them shoot their other cow friends or deciede who among them will be killed first? They could even tie them up then drag them around the farm by their hind legs, in front of all the other cows? Ofcourse, this is all speculation.
BTW
I love hambergers and my new TSX with leather interior.[/QUOTE]
yes..... this is exactly what they do.... your an idiot..
visit the peta website to see videos and pictures of what the actually do. and then for one second in your whole life, imagine if you, or your wife or son was put in the exact same position. if you dont care about others feelings thats fine, but i know if i woke up in a box and spent my whole life in that cage until someone boiled me alive so that some moron can line there car with my skin, i would be pretty upset. and enjoy your hamburgers because chances are they are gonna kill you. but im sure you dont know anything about heart attacks or colon cancer either.
BTW
I love hambergers and my new TSX with leather interior.[/QUOTE]
yes..... this is exactly what they do.... your an idiot..
visit the peta website to see videos and pictures of what the actually do. and then for one second in your whole life, imagine if you, or your wife or son was put in the exact same position. if you dont care about others feelings thats fine, but i know if i woke up in a box and spent my whole life in that cage until someone boiled me alive so that some moron can line there car with my skin, i would be pretty upset. and enjoy your hamburgers because chances are they are gonna kill you. but im sure you dont know anything about heart attacks or colon cancer either.
02-07-2005, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by superballs
and then for one second in your whole life, imagine if you, or your wife or son was put in the exact same position. if you dont care about others feelings thats fine, but i know if i woke up in a box and spent my whole life in that cage until someone boiled me alive so that some moron can line there car with my skin, i would be pretty upset. and enjoy your hamburgers because chances are they are gonna kill you. but im sure you dont know anything about heart attacks or colon cancer either.
Welcome to the top of the food chain, enjoy your stay.PETA needs to realize that these animals don't know what "leather" is, nor do they know their impending fate. Let me guess, they think in English?
I could NOT care less. PETA people are in serious need of getting lives.
02-08-2005, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Welcome to the top of the food chain, enjoy your stay.PETA needs to realize that these animals don't know what "leather" is, nor do they know their impending fate. Let me guess, they think in English?
I could NOT care less. PETA people are in serious need of getting lives.
02-08-2005, 09:47 AM
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LOL! I agree. No, not with the PETA nut-job, but the rest of you "sane" ppl. PETA are the types that would blow up a leather factory killing hundreds to save a few cows. Now that makes sense. lol
The point I was making is that they are food for us. It's all part of the food chain. ppl need to eat, cows are tastey..... If god wanted us to eat veggies and not cows, veggies would taste like cows, right? (You can't fight that kind of logic. lol)
Why is it okay to eat veggies and not cows? Cuase veggies dont scream and moo when you kill them? How would you like it if you were ripped out from your roots, cut in half, covered in sauce and chewed to death in some one's filthy mouth? Aren't plants alive too? Don't they have feeling like cows do? If you prick them do they not bleed?
But anyway, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other if the leather is genuine or fake. So I guess saving some cows, if that would happen, would be okay with me.
The point I was making is that they are food for us. It's all part of the food chain. ppl need to eat, cows are tastey..... If god wanted us to eat veggies and not cows, veggies would taste like cows, right? (You can't fight that kind of logic. lol)
Why is it okay to eat veggies and not cows? Cuase veggies dont scream and moo when you kill them? How would you like it if you were ripped out from your roots, cut in half, covered in sauce and chewed to death in some one's filthy mouth? Aren't plants alive too? Don't they have feeling like cows do? If you prick them do they not bleed?
But anyway, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other if the leather is genuine or fake. So I guess saving some cows, if that would happen, would be okay with me.
02-08-2005, 11:04 AM
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With all of the starving children in the world. With all of the kids in foster car with out homes. With all of the kids who don't know where their next meal is coming from.
And this group and similar ones are worried over the treatment of a cow??? Since when is Heffer's life and well being more important then man kind.
And this group and similar ones are worried over the treatment of a cow??? Since when is Heffer's life and well being more important then man kind.
02-08-2005, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by superballs
yes..... this is exactly what they do.... your an idiot..
visit the peta website to see videos and pictures of what the actually do. and then for one second in your whole life, imagine if you, or your wife or son was put in the exact same position. if you dont care about others feelings thats fine, but i know if i woke up in a box and spent my whole life in that cage until someone boiled me alive so that some moron can line there car with my skin, i would be pretty upset. and enjoy your hamburgers because chances are they are gonna kill you. but im sure you dont know anything about heart attacks or colon cancer either.
visit the peta website to see videos and pictures of what the actually do. and then for one second in your whole life, imagine if you, or your wife or son was put in the exact same position. if you dont care about others feelings thats fine, but i know if i woke up in a box and spent my whole life in that cage until someone boiled me alive so that some moron can line there car with my skin, i would be pretty upset. and enjoy your hamburgers because chances are they are gonna kill you. but im sure you dont know anything about heart attacks or colon cancer either.
It's a f*cking cow, man. "If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did he make them taste so good??"
PETA and their supports need to get a life, and devote their time and energy to a more worthy cause than saving an animal that, instead of standing in a field and eating and shitting stands in a small cage and eats and shits. For your new cause, I suggest an English/grammer class. Then, go get laid, and get a job. See if you give a flying rat f*ck then.
Honestly, most of these pseudo-hippies just need something to occupy their time.
02-08-2005, 02:18 PM
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haha. you guys are too funny.
cspar,you might actually learn something from this thread. i learned this in 3rd grade, but its never to late. animals have brains, and nervous systems and etc, just like you and I. plants do not. which means when you kill a cow, it feels pain, just like if i killed you. plants do not have families, they dont have memories, and they most definitly do not have a nervous system. which is why people that have compassion only eat plants. now, if you dont care that you have to make something suffer to fill your little belly, thats one thing, but to make the comparison you just did, you are only flaunting your ignorance. and you probably shouldnt do that.
also, precision, it takes 5 times the amount of grains and food to feed a cow, then it would take to feed that amount of people. so if we stopped feeding cows to eat the cows, and people just ate the grains instead, 5 times as many people would be feed. so you contributing to eating meat, is directly making it harder for people in the world to eat.
o. and for the record, ive taken a fair share of english/grammer courses, i get laid on a regular basis(which means whenever i want, i call one of a number of girls) and i also have a job. a good job. and i wouldnt suprise me, if it was a job thats better than yours.. ha.
anyway, i know that being vegan, i make up a very small percent of people out there. if you dont have compassion, and you dont care what dies and what suffers to taste good in your fat mouth for 5 minutes, than thats fine, to each his own. but remember there are more important things out there than what tastes good on your taste buds.
cspar,you might actually learn something from this thread. i learned this in 3rd grade, but its never to late. animals have brains, and nervous systems and etc, just like you and I. plants do not. which means when you kill a cow, it feels pain, just like if i killed you. plants do not have families, they dont have memories, and they most definitly do not have a nervous system. which is why people that have compassion only eat plants. now, if you dont care that you have to make something suffer to fill your little belly, thats one thing, but to make the comparison you just did, you are only flaunting your ignorance. and you probably shouldnt do that.
also, precision, it takes 5 times the amount of grains and food to feed a cow, then it would take to feed that amount of people. so if we stopped feeding cows to eat the cows, and people just ate the grains instead, 5 times as many people would be feed. so you contributing to eating meat, is directly making it harder for people in the world to eat.
o. and for the record, ive taken a fair share of english/grammer courses, i get laid on a regular basis(which means whenever i want, i call one of a number of girls) and i also have a job. a good job. and i wouldnt suprise me, if it was a job thats better than yours.. ha.
anyway, i know that being vegan, i make up a very small percent of people out there. if you dont have compassion, and you dont care what dies and what suffers to taste good in your fat mouth for 5 minutes, than thats fine, to each his own. but remember there are more important things out there than what tastes good on your taste buds.
02-08-2005, 02:36 PM
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SuperBalls
Do you even own a TSX? If so, how do you justify having the leather seats to yourself?
Just curious.
Just curious.
02-08-2005, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by superballs
haha. you guys are too funny.
cspar,you might actually learn something from this thread. i learned this in 3rd grade, but its never to late. animals have brains, and nervous systems and etc, just like you and I. plants do not. which means when you kill a cow, it feels pain, just like if i killed you. plants do not have families, they dont have memories, and they most definitly do not have a nervous system. which is why people that have compassion only eat plants. now, if you dont care that you have to make something suffer to fill your little belly, thats one thing, but to make the comparison you just did, you are only flaunting your ignorance. and you probably shouldnt do that.
also, precision, it takes 5 times the amount of grains and food to feed a cow, then it would take to feed that amount of people. so if we stopped feeding cows to eat the cows, and people just ate the grains instead, 5 times as many people would be feed. so you contributing to eating meat, is directly making it harder for people in the world to eat.
o. and for the record, ive taken a fair share of english/grammer courses, i get laid on a regular basis(which means whenever i want, i call one of a number of girls) and i also have a job. a good job. and i wouldnt suprise me, if it was a job thats better than yours.. ha.
anyway, i know that being vegan, i make up a very small percent of people out there. if you dont have compassion, and you dont care what dies and what suffers to taste good in your fat mouth for 5 minutes, than thats fine, to each his own. but remember there are more important things out there than what tastes good on your taste buds.
cspar,you might actually learn something from this thread. i learned this in 3rd grade, but its never to late. animals have brains, and nervous systems and etc, just like you and I. plants do not. which means when you kill a cow, it feels pain, just like if i killed you. plants do not have families, they dont have memories, and they most definitly do not have a nervous system. which is why people that have compassion only eat plants. now, if you dont care that you have to make something suffer to fill your little belly, thats one thing, but to make the comparison you just did, you are only flaunting your ignorance. and you probably shouldnt do that.
also, precision, it takes 5 times the amount of grains and food to feed a cow, then it would take to feed that amount of people. so if we stopped feeding cows to eat the cows, and people just ate the grains instead, 5 times as many people would be feed. so you contributing to eating meat, is directly making it harder for people in the world to eat.
o. and for the record, ive taken a fair share of english/grammer courses, i get laid on a regular basis(which means whenever i want, i call one of a number of girls) and i also have a job. a good job. and i wouldnt suprise me, if it was a job thats better than yours.. ha.
anyway, i know that being vegan, i make up a very small percent of people out there. if you dont have compassion, and you dont care what dies and what suffers to taste good in your fat mouth for 5 minutes, than thats fine, to each his own. but remember there are more important things out there than what tastes good on your taste buds.
Calm down buddy! No one I believe is harping on being a vegan. Now to address your address to me. I work in the area of education administration. I'm on a panel to discuss the issues involved in foster care. Now with that out of the way, grains do not cover all that a person much less a growing person needs. One of my degrees is in biology, so I am aware of the make up of animals. I would guess a cow has memories and I would guess it has a family. Now what separates you and I from your average cow?
I will also say that I am aware of the slaughering practices in this country. I will also say that in this greedy country we do things according to speed. Killing of animals in a kosher fashion is more humane yet it takes longer. Now with that said, a person is more important than a cow. Lots of time and money is being spent on save this tree, protect that animal. Yes we shouldn't be ignorant of our resourses, yet we do need to prioritize.
I've never asked a cow how it feels. I have worked with children of all ages for 12 years now and have asked many of them how they feel about things. I count myself as one of the lucky ones who had family and friends who cared. Believe it or not, not every kid has such luck. And not all foster homes treat foster kids well. They are treated, like, cattle in that they are used as a means to pay off bills etc, then gotten rid off to the next group home or foster home.
In both of our "pasions" what needs to change is the systems. Unfortunately, the system is slow to change. In your causes case, the desire for greater profit would have to be changed.
In the end M-B is addressing a sector of society. In the end are they doing it because they care about Ol' Betsy and her kids. No, it is about profit.
02-08-2005, 03:02 PM
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Balls, I understand your position, and to be quite frank, I say GO FOR IT! I have nothing against vegans. More power to ya. Just that if some of us want to kill cows and eat them, then I don't have a problem with that either. The food chain is just that, a food chain.
Plants have roots and grow. If you replant them, they will grow towards the source of nutrient, the sun. They think. If the sun is over there, I gotta turn to get the rays. Right? They grow and multiply, they wither and die if you dont feed them. They are alive. So then it's just as cruel to kill them as it is a cow. A cow has similar features and structure as humans, so that's why they are suppose to be different from plants. Atleast a cow can run, I mean wander away from some one. Plants just sit there all helpless waiting to be ripped up, stepped on, peed on, or starved to death.
I'm starting a new club called "Friends of Flowers and Organic Consciousness Knowledge - Unite!" ..or FFOCK-U!
Plants have roots and grow. If you replant them, they will grow towards the source of nutrient, the sun. They think. If the sun is over there, I gotta turn to get the rays. Right? They grow and multiply, they wither and die if you dont feed them. They are alive. So then it's just as cruel to kill them as it is a cow. A cow has similar features and structure as humans, so that's why they are suppose to be different from plants. Atleast a cow can run, I mean wander away from some one. Plants just sit there all helpless waiting to be ripped up, stepped on, peed on, or starved to death.
I'm starting a new club called "Friends of Flowers and Organic Consciousness Knowledge - Unite!" ..or FFOCK-U!
02-08-2005, 04:01 PM
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the further these debates go, the more amazed i get. sometimes in a bad way, sometimes in a good way. like precision amazed me with his long reply which stated compassion as well as education. and i have gained respect for him from that reply. cspar on the other hand, the more you talk, the more ignorant you sound and the more you show how really closed minded you are. yes plants grow toward the sun. its an amazing display of science, but if you dont understand the difference between a plant and an animal, you might need to take a step out of your box, and think for a minute... its really quite common sense.
02-08-2005, 05:17 PM
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The most important part of the discussion is where peoples priorities in life are. Yes the environment is important, and so are animals and natural resources.
It's always funny to me, when people in Oregon complain about not having enough money for schools and teachers, yet the entire state lottery goes to parks and environmental services.
There's nothing wrong with that, but if I had to choose between having a nice park to go to or my child getting a good eduction, I would take the latter.
It's always funny to me, when people in Oregon complain about not having enough money for schools and teachers, yet the entire state lottery goes to parks and environmental services.
There's nothing wrong with that, but if I had to choose between having a nice park to go to or my child getting a good eduction, I would take the latter.
02-08-2005, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by CSpaR
I'm starting a new club called "Friends of Flowers and Organic Consciousness Knowledge - Unite!" ..or FFOCK-U!
What exactly do PETA people propose for population control of the animals they don't want being eaten (nevermind that the food chain is a natural occurence)?
This whole animal rights stuff is pretty ridiculous. What is the basis? Is it religion? Is it the thought of what happens to them at slaughter?
They are not human. If we weren't supposed to eat hamburgers, they wouldn't taste so good, IMO.
02-08-2005, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by superballs
...o. and for the record, ive taken a fair share of english/grammer courses...
Grammer???? LOL...
Go away, please...
02-08-2005, 06:34 PM
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This is all pretty petty now. Someone wasn't paying attention in those English courses since there is no "E" in "Grammar".
Anyway...
Most of us will never understand PETA members, they will just remain the butt of jokes as they always have been. The organization isn't really accomplishing anything, as people will continue to eat meat and fast food will continue to exist, as will leather seats and fur coats.
If PETA doesn't like it, they need to just get over it.
Anyway...
Most of us will never understand PETA members, they will just remain the butt of jokes as they always have been. The organization isn't really accomplishing anything, as people will continue to eat meat and fast food will continue to exist, as will leather seats and fur coats.
If PETA doesn't like it, they need to just get over it.
02-08-2005, 06:35 PM
#29
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Good for you. Now consider re-taking some of those courses and throw in some typing courses as well. I think it was kindergarden where I learned to capitalize the first letter of every sentence.
Grammer???? LOL...
Go away, please...
Grammer???? LOL...
Go away, please...
02-09-2005, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by gt0279a
The most important part of the discussion is where peoples priorities in life are. Yes the environment is important, and so are animals and natural resources.
It's always funny to me, when people in Oregon complain about not having enough money for schools and teachers, yet the entire state lottery goes to parks and environmental services.
There's nothing wrong with that, but if I had to choose between having a nice park to go to or my child getting a good eduction, I would take the latter.
It's always funny to me, when people in Oregon complain about not having enough money for schools and teachers, yet the entire state lottery goes to parks and environmental services.
There's nothing wrong with that, but if I had to choose between having a nice park to go to or my child getting a good eduction, I would take the latter.
Balls,
Flower killer!!!!!
*splashes flower blood on him and runs away*
02-09-2005, 09:06 AM
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Amen to that! State Assessments coupled with NCLB is putting the squeeze on schools. I agree we should take care of our natural resources. This is why I look forward to hybrids being expanded by both Honda and Toyota. This is why I like Honda's push for tougher regs on emissions. Yes the slaughtering practice is backwards (20/20 or Dateline covered this over a year ago).
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