Delmiroc

The more and more I look at new cars in the market .. the more I see sedan and coupes with AWD...
I was just watchin a commercial and FORD just came out with an AWD sedan.. i was like WTF ??? I hope Acura is thinkin about AWD as an option on the near future for their vehicles.. I hate to think that the new RL will be the only option ..

Gosh .. how I wish …they will have an AWD TSX .. specially now for the winter time..

mg7726

we will...when acura puts the IMA AWD system from the RDX into the TSX

acura mgmt even said the whole lineup will even have AWD, just a matter of time

gfxdave99

The main reason that the new Ford 500 and the sister car Mercury Montego have AWD is because Ford 'borrowed' the platform design from Volvo.

from Car&Driver

"Ford went upscale and plucked the P2 platform from Volvo, the Swedish automaker Ford has owned since 1999. This is the same front-drive, transverse-engine layout with struts up front and a multilink setup in the back that's used in all the bigger Volvos, from the S60 sedan to the XC90 sport-ute. Pulling such a premium platform down-market is most unusual."

So because AWD is available on both, the switch to make it available on the cars was easy and cost them damn near nothing to engineer.

The same platform is also the basis of the new Ford Freestyle SUV.

JeffTSX

Hmm. I dunno, if I were to buy a 4WD (which I will for my next car) I don't think I would buy a Honda with 4WD. Honda's are still new to the game of 4WD. But Subarus on the other hand, I would definetly go for!! 2006 STi..here I come!!!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Except Subarus have all sorts of other problems. And Honda is not new to the 4WD thing. The JDM Honda Accord has had 4WD for many many years. Plus, think about the CR-V, which has been on the market for quite a few years with 4WD. If Honda produces an AWD or 4WD vehicle, I wouldn't be averse to purchasing it.

gfxdave99

SPUDMTN

Am I the only one who is bothered by this? It drives me nuts to see these crap domestic giants buy out the European premium brands and start creating one giant parts bin.

I understand that it's necessary to make these companies profitable, but it seems to cheapen the brand in my eyes. What really drives me nuts is the Daimler-Chrysler merger...it's a disgrace to see E-class parts strewn over that hunk of domestic crap that is the Chrysler 300 Good for the domestic buyer, bad for the premium buyer.

SacQuacker

Opening the hood of your new E-class to see "Mopar" stamped all over everything would be worse.

biker

All of this AWD hype is just something the manufacturers are doing to make more money. With new stability systems, even RWD cars rarely need AWD. AWD in sedans is the new craze. People need AWD in a sedan about as much as people need an SUV to go off road.

sauceman

RMATIC09

I dont really care to much for AWD

Delmiroc

it's simply better to have an AWD vehicle .. it's very hard to find one complainin about AWD ... gosh ... "I have too much traction and I get lot of grip on wet roads..." you never know when you're gonna need the extra Traction . so that's why I say ..it's just better and safer havin AWD

gocubsgo55

AWD on an SUV is a must. However, on FWD sedans, I don't see the true NEED for AWD. Personally, the only AWD system I would want as an option would be an SH-AWD TL. the Infiniti "X", BMW "X", Audi "Quattro", and MB "4matic" is all plain old AWD. It's all about the gimmics. Sure it'l give you better traction, but why would the steriotypical female c240 4matic driver need all that traction? Is she taking a turn too hard going 50 MPH in the snow? I mean I can see the reason why they do it, because of the thought of more traction, but as someone mentioned earlier, TCS, VSA, VSC, and all the others help take care of that in modern RWD cars. I can see where all of this is going, though. Pretty soon, FWD will be dead, and he Camrys, Accords, and Altimas of the world are going to come with AWD. The car world will be a RWD/AWD world in the near future IMO.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

But I used my Jeep to go offroad about every other weekend.

JeffTSX

What sorts of problems does Subies? And the CR-V ISN'T AWD or 4WD. It's a REAL TIME 4WD which is garbage and trust me I know cause I've serviced enough of them when I worked at Honda YEARS ago. If the Honda Accord has had 4WD for so long, why didn't they bring it over to North America where it will suit 4WD or AWD cars more?

JeffTSX

RMATIC09

call me a dirty little whore tramp that eats eels covered in crap....but i woudlent really think twice about it. Although i would if the car was FWD.

But you are right, i woudlent complain...

Belzebutt

- More fuel consumption
- Heavier and usually slightly slower car
- Costs more, i.e. you could put that money towards some other feature

This is why even Audi lets you NOT have the AWD, some people just don't need it so why pay extra?

Motohip

And cost more to service. You spend more on tires too. Got a flat in one tire? CONGRATULATIONS! YOU have to buy FOUR NEW TIRES!!!

mg7726

driving between my bro's WRX and the TSX in the NE, i would take an acura awd no questions asked.

SWRT

Having both a Honda and Subaru I'd have to agree that Honda builds a better car.

Subaru's AWD system is unique in the fact that it is true full time AWD. My WRX puts down power 50/50 between the front and rear axles. Most other AWD systems are part time. Honda's Real Time AWD is a reactive system, it does not give you the handling performance of AWD, only the ability to control the car in slippery conditions.

The Subaru system is the best out there when you weight cost vs. value. Audi likes to call their system the best, and it is capable of doing more 'for' the driver, but from a performance and control standpoint, a capable driver would enjoy the Subaru system more. The new RL system has now trumped Audi's claim to have the best, but again, it does too much baby sitting, it is constantly adapting power delivery to what it thinks the driver wants to do and what the car is actually doing.

Perhaps I'm a minority, but I want to be the only one 'thinking' about car control in my car.

I think this AWD trend is just responding to an uneducated market. Just like ABS, people think they need AWD, and if people think they need something, a smart company will sell it to them.

The biggest difference between Honda's and Subaru's sales strategy is that Honda builds a car for a much larger market than Subaru. Subaru is still a company that sells to a niche market, Honda has much higher sales volumes, they cannot afford to design a car around a niche market, it wouldn't be profitable. Given that, I wouldn't expect Honda to make a true AWD vehicle untill this "I need AWD" epidemic goes wide spread... which I don't think it will.

Bottom line as some have already posted:
-AWD is heavy
-Hurts fuel economy
-Is more expensive to maintain
-Adds considerably to the vehicle price

What I don't agree with is that it wears tires faster. If you take a car with 200hp and send that all through two tires, they will wear faster than a car sending 100hp to the front and 100hp to the rear. And no, you do not have to replace all four tires if one goes flat. Thats a myth in the Subaru community that still baffels me. The rolling diameter of a tire is more sensitive to tire pressure than tire wear, and unless we're talking about an STi with 3 LSD's, replacing tires by the axle is all thats necessary (same as a 2WD car).

Jeff, when you decide to buy your Subaru drop me a line. I drive for a team that is sponsored by Subaru and we get smoking deals on WRX's and STi's.

-SWRT

PS. For those who might belive that AWD is slower I would have to disagree. I compete against 400hp FireHawks and SVT Cobras, I am at a 120hp disavantage yet I can beat them by over a second on a 60 second track, every time. AWD is fundamentally superior to 2WD when aero-downforce isn't being applied, the true question is whether or not its worth it given the disadvantages posted above.

NAVTSX

The RL is AWD...probably that's the first step acura took to penetrate the AWD market for now

biker

I think most people mean on the same car - 325ix is slower than a regular 325.

Delmiroc

well said

JeffTSX

Thanks man!! I'll for sure keep that in mind!!

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Not any more. All new Audi A4's to the US will be Quattro featured. No 2WD in the US

JeffTSX

Got my first ever disapproval from this thread and don't worry I know who you are. How come you didn't leave me your name man??? Anyhow here's and for you!!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Subaru has had some reliability problems in the past, though they've addressed a number of those, but build quality issues are still a problem and don't expect to see the same level of build quality as a Honda or Toyota.

As for the CR-V 4WD system, why is is garbage? It works just like the quattro system in the Audi and the Haldex system on the Volvos by redistributing engine power to the wheels with traction. This is how most AWD type systems work.

And to expand on SWRT's point, the Subaru system is unique in that it uses a 50/50 split full time, but there are other full time AWD systems such as the BMW system (which uses a 35/65 front rear split full time) and the Porsche system (same split as the BMW). The majority of AWD systems are reactive systems because it minimizes the fuel consumption penalty. Even the MDX VTM-4 system is a reactive system and not a fulltime system. There are different uses for different AWD systems, and since most systems are advertised for adverse weather use, the reactive systems make the most sense. For truly sporting driving, the full-time systems tend to be the choice.

JeffTSX

Oh really? Wow I haven't really heard anything about Subies. Maybe I should read up on it more over the net rather than just speaking from expericnes.

Why the CR-V's REALTIME ALL WHEEL DRIVE (differnet from 4WD or AWD) is garbage? Cause it will only send power to the rear wheels when the computer THINKS it needs to. And speaking from pass expericnes, the CR-V ECU had problems activating rear wheels. Then again, what do I know? I've only worked on it and never really drove one or own one since most of you speak like you worked/drove/own a CR-V before.

STi or EVO MR BABY!!

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Watch the attitude, dude...I've known people who have owned Subarus where the cars have started coming apart after a few years, usually starting with the interiors. I am speaking from experience.

As for the CR-V all wheel drive, it still functions like the Audi and Volvo systems so I don't see why it is any worse, functionally. So you've seen problems with it. I didn't say it was problem free. I just said that it does show that Honda has an AWD system and has had one for a number of years.

SWRT

I can back that up. In the case of my car, the interior fit and finish is definitely a weak point.

Right now my WRX is a rattle trap. Personally it doesn't bother me much, and a large part of the reason there is so much vibration making all the trim pieces come loose is my drivetrain and suspension. I run a very hard sprung and damped suspension and hardened engine and drivetrain mounts. Great road communication, but I can feel it when I run over a dime. I still belive the WRX and WRX STi are the best performance vehicles for the money, regardless of some of their shortcomings.

As far as Subaru quality goes, as I mentioned earlier, Honda has them beat. Subaru doesn't have poor quality, in fact I'd say its quite good, but compared to Honda and Toyota its weak. Subaru quality still beats out any of the domestics and most of the european manufacturers hands down.

-Pete

JeffTSX

Hmm...maybe I should just keep my mouth shut now and not to comment on anything and just post car videos since I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings here. Sorry if I've gave wrong opinions since it seems like it's always wrong to you.

JeffTSX

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

No need to turn on the sarcasm. I was asking an academic question and you responded with unnecessary sarcasm. I don't question your credentials, but at the same time, my experience supports one story, while yours may not. No need to get an attitude about it.

JeffTSX

Don't worry. I'll just go :blaze: and I'll forget everything.