duugk

Wow. Welcome back to the land of the living. Glad you're ok.

Near death experiences will often change your perspective/outlook on life, don't answer if you feel it's too personal, but I just wondered if you have noticed any changes at all from this experience in the way you look at stuff. (Aside from the cuts and bruises.)

Gebbeth

I'm curious about the airbags and seatbelts. Can someone who is an expert discuss?

I'm not an expert or anything, so this is just conjecture. If the devices that detect a crash and deploy the airbags measure deceleration, then in a rear-end collision they would not work because a car is accelerating when hit from the rear (i.e. at a stoplight, your are stationary...then when you are hit from behind, you rapidly accelerate from the force of the blow behind you). May be no manufacturer has come up with a consistently workable accelerometer that can work in conjunction with a decelerometer. Sound stupid?

I figure the crash dynamics are also different. When you are moving forward in a car, both you and the car are moving at the same velocity relative to the road and the other objects around you. You don't feel exactly that way because you are moving at the same exact speed relative to the car since you are inside the car. When you are in a front end collision, you are moving at that speed and then come to an abrupt stop. But inertia wants to keep you moving, so you continue to move forward in your seat. The only thing stopping you from hitting anything is the seatbelt and airbag. I think maybe the force that your body is absorbing can be calculated by the change in velocity times the mass of your body (I'm not physicist, so help me out here). The airbag and seatbelt probably absorbs all that transferred energy and also spreads it out over a larger area of you body. Otherwise, that force is going to go straight into breaking your bones and internal organs it you hit a hard object (i.e., you have your hands out, and your hand hit the wheel, all the energy is getting transferred to you hands, wrists and arms, and they will probably all break....the head is probably the worst thing you can hit something on).

In a rear end, I think you are rapidly accelerating, the force of the car hitting you from behind is getting transferred through the body of the car to the back of your seat, which is then accelerating you from a standstill to X mph. So really, you are first getting pushed by the back of the seat then moving forward. I think what's important here is that the back of the seat did not break backward and that your headrests prevented your head from snapping back and breaking your neck. That is where most of the damage probably occurs. If the car seat back broke, you would be moving rapidly recline in the back of your seat, and your seatbelts would then be useless. You would be flopping around in the car). If the car seat back doesn't break, you are in a good position to be moving forward and allowing the seat belts to absorbed all the energy of the collision (the seat back itself may have aborbed all that rearward force). Also, it probably takes a fraction of a second longer for you to move forward in a rear end crash compared to a front end crash, so by the time you are in a position to be cushioned by the airbag, it's probably already in its deflation cycle and would be useless (I think airbags are designed to inflate very quickly and then allow for deflation so it is not so stiff that it ends up just as hard as a dashboard). I don't know, but my guess is scientists are working on a solution.

What is troubling is the seat belt. While I understand that maybe seat belts have a give point, where they are suppossed to break to release energy, I find it hard to believe. First of all, everybody is different, size, weight, etc. Why would a seat belt break at a predetermined point given that that predetermined point may be too high to do anygood for one person and too low the restrain another person when they need to be restrained? It would have to be one hell of a smart seat belt for that to happen.

My guess is that your seat belt experienced some sort of g-loading. Remember when Dale Earnhart died? They found a broken seat belt. NASCAR blamed it on the manufacturer saying there was g-loading. Now of course, NASCAR was a bit fishy in raising this issue, but the science, I think, acutally works. Sometimes when a seat belt is pulled awkwardly, or the belt buckle is slightly off adjusted for whatever reason, the belt buckle torques and twists when it tries to straighten out in a collision. It then bunches up onto one side of the buckle. The fabric was not intended to take this focused and intense load, and so it rips (the metal of the seat belt buckle also makes it easier to rip the fabric). May be the TSX belt buckle is prone to g-loading. But this shouldn't be the case.

Do you know where the belt broke? Near the buckle? Near the shoulder area? Did the actual buckle break or only the belt?

Curious.

KJLite

Glad to hear you are OK man. Sorry to hear about the loss of your car.

I hope from now on you will always, always, always wear your seatbelt. I can assure you that you probably would not be here today if you did not wear your belt. the airbags did not go off because they are front and side-impact bags. you were involved in a rear impact collision.

you should all take this as a learning experience and make sure you always buckle up. i don't want to see any of you punks show up at my ER DOA.

bob shiftright

Glad you're OK!

I'm no expert (about anything) but I'm fairly certain that a car's front airbags are not designed to deploy in a rear collision. I do know that the mechanism for side airbag deployment on Volvos - the first cars so equipped - is a simple "contact" system with a detonator in the seat base. I have even heard stories of side airbags - on GM products, not on Volvos - deploying if a door was slammed too hard. So if you actually wanted the front airbags to deploy in a rear collision you could easily design them to do so.

According to the NHTSA complaints file on the TSX it contains only 4 filings, one for seat rocking, one for automatic transmission failure and for completely unclear reasons contains two complaints about Honda Odyssey gas tanks (!).

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...aintsearch.cfm

I am also curious as to exactly how the seat belt failed. I suggest filing a complaint with NHTSA about this.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

21_in_az

duugk.....................as far as changing my life....i have. i have a whole new value on life itself, you never when your time is up.

I ALWAYS WEAR MY SEALTBELT NOW!!!!! i cant stress this enough! even though it broke, and i dont beleive, nor want, airbags anymore (i never really did either) i will tell everyone in the world the same thing......I WOULD NOT BE ALIVE TODAY IF IT WERN'T FOR MY SEATBELT! i use to think they were a joke....."they dont work, more people die from wearing them"......WRONG! i dont know why the hell i ever thought that.

i also know who my true freinds are, they are the ones who gave up their friday night to sit in a hospital lobby, while there freind was in the ER for 9 hours.

i also learned that material possesions are BULLSHIT! everyone has/wants them (including myself) but, in the end, your only barried with your coffin.

i bought an THE EAGLES GREATEST HITS. does this count? lol

also, the biggest one.......LIVE LIFE AS AN EXCLAMATION, NOT AN EXPLANATION! have fun, you only live once......unless you beleive in reencarnation.


bob shiftright......thanks for the links! i am going to go check them out right now. thank you.


as far as the airbag discusion is concearned......we will never, ever stop talking about it. same with the seatbelt. no matter what is said, who says it, or the all powerfull ACURA has to say about it......it will never stop. no one knows for sure, every car and every person is different.
maybe the seatbelt is supposed to break.....maybe the bags only deploy on frontal collisions......who knows? all i know is that i am an average guy. i am 5'10"...175lbs, and have a little bear belly (that is now going to go away!) i am average.......and in my car the only problem i have ever had is the back right window motor broke the 1st week i had my car (this happenes when your car is one of the first 100 made) but on that night, TO ME IT SEEMED NOTHING WENT RIGHT. i am sorry for this, but this is how i feel. I KNOW I AM LUCKY TO BE ALIVE, I AM GREATFULL TO THE MAN UPSTAIRS FOR SPARING ME....IT COULD HAVE BEEN ALOT WORSE, but to me, everything is not allright. i lost my car, the asshole got away on foot, i have neck/back/head/shoulder pain.....blah blah blah. BUT EVERYTHING HAPPENES FOR A REASON.....i have have to figure out what the reason was.

vitocorleone

When I was in the ER - after getting sick on a plane (not just airsick, we'll leave it at that) and getting hauled off of it and into the back of an ambulance at JFK and missing my connecting flight - I found it freezing cold in the ER. I had to get extra blankets, too. Wonder why they keep it so damn cold.

Don't let it go to your head, but an "average" person probably would not have survived that crash. Harsh medical mishaps do indeed make one appreciate life. I ended up appreciating the simple things even more, from a good bottle of wine, to cuddling with my new wife, to being more friendly with my co-workers, etc.

Between Acura and the NHTSA, you should be able to find out what was supposed to happen with the seatbelt and airbags. And then you can figure out whether these things happened in your TSX, and file complaints if they did not.

I really hope they catch the bastard that did this to you. Good luck, and DO take it easy for awhile.

wiz

Glad you are ok, that is one hell of a crash. It sort of reminds me when I totaled my Jeep CJ-7 in a one car accident just over 2 years ago. It was brutal and I too had to see the inside of the ambulance, but I was able to walk away from it, after they cut me out. I'll give the whole story if anybody is interested.

killer was right, cars can be replaced, people can't.

larchmont

Absolutely, wiz -- let's have it.

21_in_az

lets have it wiz.....this is officlally the car crash forum now!

share your story.

21_in_az

wiz....where you at man?

rzee

I think if the tension on the seat belt is strong enough for the belt to cut through flesh, then it should break, for obvious reason.

ABP-CL9-TSX

glad your okay, cars can be replaced, but lives cannot......sorry about your car man.:'(

i am surprised the airbags didn't go off and the seatbelts failed like that.

kinda doesn't make me feel safe driving my TSX now.

phile

The seatbelts and airbags "failing" have already been discussed, you shouldn't feel less safe. Amazing how some of you guys are picking at these two items, meanwhile the guy was rear ended at 70mph and is still alive.

duugk

Show me a car where you can get hit by some idiot doing 70 mph and walk away from it (albeit, a bit banged up), and I'll show you a well engineered car.

I feel safer now, not confused or suspicious about the safety devices. Mostly thankful that AZ isn't dead, I'll bet if he was in the average car out on the road right now, the ending wouldn't be so good.

Gebbeth

"The seatbelts and airbags "failing" have already been discussed, you shouldn't feel less safe. Amazing how some of you guys are picking at these two items, meanwhile the guy was rear ended at 70mph and is still alive."

Dude, we're all glad he is alive. But he did hit his head on the windshield. I think that can be attributed to the seatbelts breaking. Whether by design or not, we're interested by the science, the why's or why nots, and if it was not designed to break that way, then I think we are voicing legitimate concerns.

rzee

Dude, if you had read his posts from the beginning, you would know this, even after the seatbelt broke, the man had "a HUGE bruise on my chest for about 3 weeks". God knows what would happen if the belt didn't break.

21_in_az

ok...ok....ok.....every fighter to their respected corner! lol

dont feel un-safe in the tsx, it is, BY FAR, one of the most safest cars on the road. about a week later, somelady was driving down the I-10 freeway here in phoenix, and was rear ended at 70. she however wasnt wearing a seatbelt. she went out the window. her husband is now single, her children have no mother!

AIRBAGS: if the airbags would have deploy, i would have 2 broken arms, and a broken nose. i probaly would have been knocked out! as far as i know, they should only deploy in a frontal collision or side. HOWEVER, IF THERE IS A DEFECT, ACURA NEEDS TO FIX THIS PROBLEM, ASAP! BEFORE SOMEONE IS HURT WORSE THAN I.

SEATBELT: maybe it is supposed to break...i dunno? reading some of the stories posted here, i am glad it did! I LIKE MY HEAD BEING ON CONNECTED TO MY TORSO! it feels good there! yes, i hit the windsheild...BUT BECAUSE OF MY SEATBELT, I STAYED IN THE CAR!

21_in_az

airbags keep you in the car, seatbelts save lives!

phile

As I said, it was already discussed. Just scroll back to read why the airbags didn't deploy and why the seat belts "broke."

Whatchamacallit

Don't know if this was discussed already but as far as the guy who stole the car and caused the accident, what was HE driving?

He crashes into your TSX, basically goes from 70 mph to 0 mph, and then not just survives the crash, but outruns 20 cops and their patrol cars to get away!

I know he had front airbags to lessen the impact but to get out of the mangled car and out-run the police in that shape. . . simply in-freaking-credible. Amazing what adrenaline does to one's body when you've got a bag of stolen cash in one hand and couple dozen cops chasing after you.

CarsDislikeMe

I am so sorry to hear about your experience, but glad your alright.

One more story on acuras being safe (even though it was a TL)

We had a neighbor who was making a left hand turn out of the neighborhood; which is hard to see if someone is coming. Our neighboor pulled out in time to get plowed into by an F-350. The car was totaled - torn in half. By the time the fellow driving the truck got out my neighbor was already sitting on the side of the road - without a scratch. The truck driver was looking for the driver as if she had disappeared.. The truck driver realised my neighbor was on the side of the road and was SHOCKED that she came out of it alive, yet alone scratchless. Ambulences were already called and were shocked as well to see this woman concious and with not a scratch. She shouldn't have lived, call it a good car, divine intervention, or whatever; the acura had to have played some role.

She promptly bought another TL.. (and told me this story when I was whining about what a POS my TL was)

I think these cars will crumble for your safety..

larchmont

I wonder if it's possible that at the time of impact his speed was actually less than 70.

Saintor_RENAMED

Be very happy that there were no fire...

21_in_az

i didnt get a good look at the car he was driving.....i think it was like a 89 chevy baretta, or something....whatever it was though, it did not have airbags!

i am not sure how many cops ran after him, since i was *out of it*, but, he ran through a cottonfeild, then crossed over a 8-lane freeway (the loop 101 @ chaperall)and disapered......the only way they couldeve caught him was if the helicopter was on him, and im not sure if it was.

i dont mean to sound like a racist asshole, because im not....but, living in phoenix, you become very judgemental.....

i doubt he was a legal citzen, and im sure he has out ran cops before. this happens here everyday, border jumpers stealing/running/ruining good peoples lives......just so they dont have to go back to their country. allthough, i cant blame them.....america is THE BEST COUNTRY in the world!


yes, that lady in the tl is VERY FOURNATE!

Brad

Thank you, 21 in AZ for your time and effort in sharing your collision experience.

For all the bad things that happened to your car, you turned out relatively OK--amazingly OK. The headache may be whiplash as your neck muscle--which are very delicate--can snap and get stretched pretty badly.

I hope you have good insurance coverage!

fuque

Dude! Glad to hear you're OK!!

jdibella

Very scary. I was in an accident at the end of July '03. I felt the same way as you looking back at my car, all the hard work you put into it and it's all gone. I was very upset when it happened but i've come to realize that it's much more important that i'm still living. I hit a 16 year old who decided to pull out in front of me at about 45 mph. We wont get into that.

Thank god your ok. Your very lucky. I do find it very odd that the seatbelts broke and the airbags didn't deploy. You are VERY lucky to have survived this because if you ask me if I hadn't heard your story and just heard that your seat belt broke and no airbags came out, I would have thought the worst.

As for your car, it'll probably be better if they just total it. It's not going to be worth it to fix and it'll never be the same. Good luck in all that happens. I'm still feeling a bit of pain from the accident as well in my neck but I think i'm much better. I went to therapy for a few weeks but that's about it. Keep us updated as to what is going on and take it easy.

Revenent

I'm heading over to Acura of Lynnwood today - I could ask about the seatbelt thing.

Mind you, whether or not they'll actually tell me anything is another issue.

dickise

Thats awesome that you made it thru that wreck. Makes me feel a little bit safer to know that. By chance do you happen to have any pics of what the car looks like now? Not to sound insensitive or anything I'm just kinda curious how bad it looks. Again I'm very happy your alive and able to tell the story. Best of luck with getting a new ride.

21_in_az

I got a few pics of the car a couple of nights after it happened.....but, they are terrible quality. ill try to post them, and give a link....but, you cant tell the extent of the damage.
soon as i get a chance, i will. but my brother is in washington snowboarding, and he has my digy cam that has the pics in it. he gets back this weekend, then i will post.

AZTSXer

Can you get any new pics when its in storage now? Have they totalled it oficially? I could find anything on the AZ Republic web about the wreck or robbery. Do you have any links?

21_in_az

no links yet........i am trying to get ahold of channel 12 news, a few girls i know that work at wellsfargo said they saw my car on the news.

still no luck though.......

21_in_az

calling a news station sucks!

no one knows anything!

larchmont

Don't take it personally, 21.
Try calling Time-Warner Cable around here when your internet connection is down.

BamaTSX

Just got back from out of town...check the forum...OMFG! Glad you're okay 21. Talk about a nightmare. Glad you are STILL the only one in Arizona. I'm sure you know this already but...Don't sign anything without advice from a lawyer. As a matter of fact, it would not hurt to consult with a attorney. At the very least you would have help getting a satisfying conclusion with your car. Once again, glad you are safe and sound.

Jab31169

Bama....arent you in Bham? I just moved back from ATL

SOrry to get off topic

21_in_az

So, i talked to the acura repair shop today about my car.......it has been in the shop for 2 weeks now, and was in the police impund for 4 weeks.

total damage so far is.......according to farmers rep, only $13k. BUT the repair shop disagrees with him, and has the total up to $19k.

however, this estimate does not include a new navi unit and any engine problems that accured.

it does, however, included a new frame (mine was bent to the back of the drivers seat!), a new floor board, 3 doors, hood, headlights, grill, front bumper, 4 fenders, rear bumper, trunk lid, tailights, drivers seat, steering colum, NEW WINDSHEILD, seat belt system, new rear axel, all bushings and sway bars, full suspension, uummmmmm.........and a lot more!

BASICALLY, I WILL BE GETTING A BRAND NEW TSX WITH 15K MILES AND A WRECKED TITLE!

this is f^cking bullsh*it! also, i wont get my car back for 5-7 months! SO F^CKING PISSED RIGHT NOW!

just though i would share.

larchmont

If it was me, I'd look seriously into whether there's any recourse.

And besides, 5-7 months? What about meanwhile? Are they doing anything for you?

oo7bondgrrl

Get a lawyer! Don't let them pull that bullshit. The car should have been declared totaled, and you should already have the check in your bank account.

21_in_az

oo7bondgrrl, i wish it was that easy! i have no recourse, technically. if the car is worth more than the damage, they dont have to total it. when your insurance totals a car, they do it because financually for them, it makes sense. in this case, i guess it doesent....yet.

i know that once they get to the engine, it will be totalled. the damn thing started smoking at the scene! in know that internals are fried, and that is just the minamum!

only time will tell.