Saab 9-3 is EXTREMELY popular...
07-31-2003, 01:17 PM
#82
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Originally posted by soopa
buyers remorse alert
buyers remorse alert
07-31-2003, 01:18 PM
#83
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I'm w/soop on this one.
Altho I always kid abt European cars being unreliable, most of the european cars are very well built and just have nagging issues.
quite a few of the members here are delirious over the TSx and are blind to the fact that there are quite a few competent cars out there as well besides the TSX. The SaaB may be a quirky car, but it is very SOLID, the interior may not look as good as the TSx, but it has quite a few features (conveniences) that the TSx doesn't offer.
Also, if ur looking to mod the car, you would prob be better off w/the saab due to the turbo...Another thing, you must realize that people in sweden can't afford to buy cars all the time like us Americans, and thus need their cars to last a long time (over 6years), most of the time, its the Saabs and the volvos that these people own b/c they happen to last a very long time.
Adam is also rite IMO abt the notion people have of u if u were to pull up in a 9-3 vs a tsx...and the fact that the tsx is a bit overpriced...if the tsx w/navi stickered at $27.5K, than there would be quite a few more tsx owners on the road.
IMO, the tsx is the best built acura for under $35K...simply b/c its built in japan...when acura makes a v6 sport coupe or sedan thats 6spd and built in japan for under $35K, i will likely get one...however, if its not built in japn, than I won't even bother
All the cars my family and friends have owned that were made in Japan (i.e. Gs300, 1st gen TL, Acura Legend, Accord) were heads and shoulders better in terms of build quality than the foreign cars built in N. America (i.e. accord coupe, Odyssey, x5, Ml320 etc.)
My point is, be open-minded abt cars folks, also, where else on the internet will u find someone like adam whos open to constructive criticism and is not afraid to point out the good, bad, and ugly of all sides....def not at clubtsx.com
Altho I always kid abt European cars being unreliable, most of the european cars are very well built and just have nagging issues.
quite a few of the members here are delirious over the TSx and are blind to the fact that there are quite a few competent cars out there as well besides the TSX. The SaaB may be a quirky car, but it is very SOLID, the interior may not look as good as the TSx, but it has quite a few features (conveniences) that the TSx doesn't offer.
Also, if ur looking to mod the car, you would prob be better off w/the saab due to the turbo...Another thing, you must realize that people in sweden can't afford to buy cars all the time like us Americans, and thus need their cars to last a long time (over 6years), most of the time, its the Saabs and the volvos that these people own b/c they happen to last a very long time.
Adam is also rite IMO abt the notion people have of u if u were to pull up in a 9-3 vs a tsx...and the fact that the tsx is a bit overpriced...if the tsx w/navi stickered at $27.5K, than there would be quite a few more tsx owners on the road.
IMO, the tsx is the best built acura for under $35K...simply b/c its built in japan...when acura makes a v6 sport coupe or sedan thats 6spd and built in japan for under $35K, i will likely get one...however, if its not built in japn, than I won't even bother
All the cars my family and friends have owned that were made in Japan (i.e. Gs300, 1st gen TL, Acura Legend, Accord) were heads and shoulders better in terms of build quality than the foreign cars built in N. America (i.e. accord coupe, Odyssey, x5, Ml320 etc.)
My point is, be open-minded abt cars folks, also, where else on the internet will u find someone like adam whos open to constructive criticism and is not afraid to point out the good, bad, and ugly of all sides....def not at clubtsx.com
07-31-2003, 01:30 PM
#85
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Originally posted by unsure
Also, if ur looking to mod the car, you would prob be better off w/the saab due to the turbo...
Also, if ur looking to mod the car, you would prob be better off w/the saab due to the turbo...
That's another good thing Saab has going for it. Its not a ricemobile like the TSX has the potential of becoming.
07-31-2003, 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by domn
Modding a Saab???............Why I never heard such a thing
That's another good thing Saab has going for it. Its not a ricemobile like the TSX has the potential of becoming.
Modding a Saab???............Why I never heard such a thing
That's another good thing Saab has going for it. Its not a ricemobile like the TSX has the potential of becoming.
yes, seriously, i'm afraid of that happening to the tsx...its starting to happen w/the cl and tl, and will only worsen w/the arrival of the new tl since that will result in the current tl and cl's resale value going down even more...i mean, i see quite a few is300s that are already riced out by my way. and alot of last gen e36s in the same state
07-31-2003, 02:07 PM
#90
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Originally posted by domn
Modding a Saab???............Why I never heard such a thing
That's another good thing Saab has going for it. Its not a ricemobile like the TSX has the potential of becoming.
Modding a Saab???............Why I never heard such a thing
That's another good thing Saab has going for it. Its not a ricemobile like the TSX has the potential of becoming.
theres plenty of modding available for the swedes...
its just all quality (read: expensive) shit so theres no ricing it up.
but they get a ton of incredible suspension and power bumping kits.
and having that turbo is always good reason for a chip :evil:
07-31-2003, 02:14 PM
#91
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Originally posted by unsure
i see quite a few is300s that are already riced out by my way. and alot of last gen e36s in the same state
i see quite a few is300s that are already riced out by my way. and alot of last gen e36s in the same state
07-31-2003, 02:18 PM
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I dont know what everyones problem is lately but I hope this forum doesnt become filled with too much ignorant biases or insecurities.
That's another good thing Saab has going for it. Its not a ricemobile like the TSX has the potential of becoming.
quite a few of the members here are delirious over the TSx and are blind to the fact that there are quite a few competent cars out there as well besides the TSX. The SaaB may be a quirky car, but it is very SOLID, the interior may not look as good as the TSx, but it has quite a few features (conveniences) that the TSx doesn't offer.
To those of you that have conducted themselves with objectivity and grace on this board I commend you. To those of you who feel the need to defend your purchase when one of your own complements another car, hey so be it.
you should read back on A-CL the topics from when that motortrend article came out that had the CL-S ahead of the 328i and youll see these exact rowdy comments from yer fellow fawkin mag racers
Oh btw Santacruz, I am still waiting for the comment which was pegged on me stating that I am buying a car for "prestige" purposes. If you are referring to the post that where soopa references to doctors, lawyers, etc and I added that technical people also have bought 9-3's then you need to stand corrected in your statement.
07-31-2003, 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by soopa
theres plenty of modding available for the swedes...
its just all quality (read: expensive) shit so theres no ricing it up.
theres plenty of modding available for the swedes...
its just all quality (read: expensive) shit so theres no ricing it up.
I mean really, the best reason for owning a Saab is to keep the riff-raff outa your neighborhood?
07-31-2003, 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by soopa
theres plenty of modding available for the swedes...
its just all quality (read: expensive) shit so theres no ricing it up.
but they get a ton of incredible suspension and power bumping kits.
and having that turbo is always good reason for a chip :evil:
theres plenty of modding available for the swedes...
its just all quality (read: expensive) shit so theres no ricing it up.
but they get a ton of incredible suspension and power bumping kits.
and having that turbo is always good reason for a chip :evil:
07-31-2003, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by 93Kewl
Too late.
Yes!
Which has been my point the whole time. But some here (with definate insecurities) can't see that. Some have mentioned that I expect people to agree with me on why I choose a Saab over a TSX. But what I do have a problem with is when people make accusations or statement when they have no friggen idea what they are talking about. If they would bother to do their homework and not be a mindless lemming they would see that many of the perceptions that people may have formed just are not true or are not as bad as people make it out to seem.
To those of you that have conducted themselves with objectivity and grace on this board I commend you. To those of you who feel the need to defend your purchase when one of your own complements another car, hey so be it.
Oh yes, I remember that! People lost their minds!
Oh btw Santacruz, I am still waiting for the comment which was pegged on me stating that I am buying a car for "prestige" purposes. If you are referring to the post that where soopa references to doctors, lawyers, etc and I added that technical people also have bought 9-3's then you need to stand corrected in your statement.
Too late.
Yes!
Which has been my point the whole time. But some here (with definate insecurities) can't see that. Some have mentioned that I expect people to agree with me on why I choose a Saab over a TSX. But what I do have a problem with is when people make accusations or statement when they have no friggen idea what they are talking about. If they would bother to do their homework and not be a mindless lemming they would see that many of the perceptions that people may have formed just are not true or are not as bad as people make it out to seem.
To those of you that have conducted themselves with objectivity and grace on this board I commend you. To those of you who feel the need to defend your purchase when one of your own complements another car, hey so be it.
Oh yes, I remember that! People lost their minds!
Oh btw Santacruz, I am still waiting for the comment which was pegged on me stating that I am buying a car for "prestige" purposes. If you are referring to the post that where soopa references to doctors, lawyers, etc and I added that technical people also have bought 9-3's then you need to stand corrected in your statement.
07-31-2003, 02:25 PM
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I like the TSX, let me just get the out right now.
Dudes' response to my Reliability post was kind of sad.
Pretty much said "Honda's" (wait I thought we were talking Accura???) "are just more reliable, everyone knows that".
Please. My only point is SAABS ARE RELIABLE and I don't know where this mindset started that they aren't...
Since 1996 the Saab 9-3 has recieved very high marks for reliability.
SOURCE
As for not being able to "Rice" a Saab....I dunno...this wing really looks ricey to me.
Dudes' response to my Reliability post was kind of sad.
Pretty much said "Honda's" (wait I thought we were talking Accura???) "are just more reliable, everyone knows that".
Please. My only point is SAABS ARE RELIABLE and I don't know where this mindset started that they aren't...
Since 1996 the Saab 9-3 has recieved very high marks for reliability.
SOURCE
As for not being able to "Rice" a Saab....I dunno...this wing really looks ricey to me.
07-31-2003, 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by 93Kewl
Oh btw Santacruz, I am still waiting for the comment which was pegged on me stating that I am buying a car for "prestige" purposes. If you are referring to the post that where soopa references to doctors, lawyers, etc and I added that technical people also have bought 9-3's then you need to stand corrected in your statement.
Oh btw Santacruz, I am still waiting for the comment which was pegged on me stating that I am buying a car for "prestige" purposes. If you are referring to the post that where soopa references to doctors, lawyers, etc and I added that technical people also have bought 9-3's then you need to stand corrected in your statement.
However, you just agreed that another plus to owning the Saab is because some people can't modify it to their liking...umm IMO that's kind of snobby.
07-31-2003, 02:29 PM
#98
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Originally posted by 93Kewl
If they would bother to do their homework and not be a mindless lemming they would see that many of the perceptions that people may have formed just are not true or are not as bad as people make it out to seem.
If they would bother to do their homework and not be a mindless lemming they would see that many of the perceptions that people may have formed just are not true or are not as bad as people make it out to seem.
Well you're right
But I have to disagree about Soopa being "one of your own" if thats what you meant. He is now our most hated enemy, especially Tinky's
Let the Banning begin
"Mr. Soopa"
07-31-2003, 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by unsure
10 bux on soop
whos gonna promote this? Provench, perhaps? lol
10 bux on soop
whos gonna promote this? Provench, perhaps? lol
P.S. I have the feeling Prov's gonna stay out of this one!
07-31-2003, 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by TinkySD
Do saabs have electronically controlled waste gates? I don't think those are that common still. That's the reason 1.8ts etc can gain so much. Although with any turbo motors i/h/e usually produce big gains.
Do saabs have electronically controlled waste gates? I don't think those are that common still. That's the reason 1.8ts etc can gain so much. Although with any turbo motors i/h/e usually produce big gains.
07-31-2003, 02:31 PM
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However, you just agreed that another plus to owning the Saab is because some people can't modify it to their liking...umm IMO that's kind of snobby
For what it's worth, the overall look of the TSX is classy. Add a spoiler and the factory ground kit and it's even nicer. When guys mod their cars (overly), it cheapen the car and the respect value people have for it.
For example, although not a mod, it sickens me when I see an expensive car like a benz with fuzzy dice inside! Don't laugh, I have seen it and it just turns my stomach!
Are you saying that I'm a mindless lemming because of my perception that only Jerry Seinfeild types drive Saab's??
07-31-2003, 02:32 PM
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I've been chatting with soopa all morning on IM... he said "you are right and I am wrong"(paraphrase) hahaha ok. So he didnt' say that... it's all good though. I'm fine with people having different opinions than me. But if they want to share theirs they can hear mine too.
07-31-2003, 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by unsure
i'm not 100% sure abt the electronically controlled waste gate, however, u can't put headers on a turbo, altho u can always swap out the turbo manifold for a better one
i'm not 100% sure abt the electronically controlled waste gate, however, u can't put headers on a turbo, altho u can always swap out the turbo manifold for a better one
07-31-2003, 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by CleveSaab
.....Since 1996 the Saab 9-3 has recieved very high marks for reliability.
SOURCE.....
.....Since 1996 the Saab 9-3 has recieved very high marks for reliability.
SOURCE.....
But I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this, in terms of the major surveys. Check out Consumer Reports from recent years.
(I, being me, would enthusiastically post all the data right here, except my old CR's are elsewhere. Pretty lame, huh?)
07-31-2003, 02:37 PM
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we were talking about this in a post in off topic. It's good to have people with different opinions...even the dreaded gilbo. keeps discussion lively. Hope you guys stay on the boards and contribute.
07-31-2003, 02:38 PM
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tinky,
tru statement abt the downpipe. IMO, If I could see 260-300whp out of that lil saab engine, i'd be amazed and prob consider getting one...I mean, imagine the look on people's faces after u whopped them in a saab lol, non-viggen nonetheless lol
tru statement abt the downpipe. IMO, If I could see 260-300whp out of that lil saab engine, i'd be amazed and prob consider getting one...I mean, imagine the look on people's faces after u whopped them in a saab lol, non-viggen nonetheless lol
07-31-2003, 02:39 PM
#108
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Originally posted by CleveSaab
I like the TSX, let me just get the out right now.
Dudes' response to my Reliability post was kind of sad.
Pretty much said "Honda's" (wait I thought we were talking Accura???) "are just more reliable, everyone knows that".
Please. My only point is SAABS ARE RELIABLE and I don't know where this mindset started that they aren't...
I like the TSX, let me just get the out right now.
Dudes' response to my Reliability post was kind of sad.
Pretty much said "Honda's" (wait I thought we were talking Accura???) "are just more reliable, everyone knows that".
Please. My only point is SAABS ARE RELIABLE and I don't know where this mindset started that they aren't...
Do youeself a favour and go back over every post I've written in this thread or any other thread for that matter, WHERE DO I SAY SAAB'S are'nt relaible??????? Show me please..... I said the TSX is PROJECTED to be more reliable because of HONDA the TSX's parent compaany has proven reliability records. Reliability records that are BETTTER than SAAB's. Them the facts live with it....I don''t care if HONDA is only 5 percentage points ahead of Saab in reliability, there still ahead. So again explain to me how my post is Sad???
07-31-2003, 02:41 PM
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Dom, he might have been talking about me or one of the other immature TSX'ers.
BTW Honda is more than 5 percentage points ahead.
It's all OK by me -- just don't be looking for us to say stuff that nobody should expect we'd have any reason to think of saying.
BTW Honda is more than 5 percentage points ahead.
It's all OK by me -- just don't be looking for us to say stuff that nobody should expect we'd have any reason to think of saying.
07-31-2003, 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by unsure
tinky,
tru statement abt the downpipe. IMO, If I could see 260-300whp out of that lil saab engine, i'd be amazed and prob consider getting one...I mean, imagine the look on people's faces after u whopped them in a saab lol, non-viggen nonetheless lol
tinky,
tru statement abt the downpipe. IMO, If I could see 260-300whp out of that lil saab engine, i'd be amazed and prob consider getting one...I mean, imagine the look on people's faces after u whopped them in a saab lol, non-viggen nonetheless lol
07-31-2003, 02:47 PM
#111
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Originally posted by larchmont
Dom, he might have been talking about me or one of the other immature TSX'ers.
BTW Honda is more than 5 percentage points ahead.
It's all OK by me -- just don't be looking for us to say stuff that nobody should expect we'd have any reason to think of saying.
Dom, he might have been talking about me or one of the other immature TSX'ers.
BTW Honda is more than 5 percentage points ahead.
It's all OK by me -- just don't be looking for us to say stuff that nobody should expect we'd have any reason to think of saying.
Larch can you please explain that last sentence, I don't get it. Your having some trouble typing today I think
07-31-2003, 02:48 PM
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BTW Honda is more than 5 percentage points ahead
Wasn't Buick just rated very highly? Ugh!
07-31-2003, 02:56 PM
#116
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as you can see i've already defeated soopa...he's sulked away in shame.(actually probably doing some real work or something) Arguing is fun as long as people stick more or less to facts. I tend to worry that some people do get really upset about this stuff though.
07-31-2003, 02:57 PM
#117
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2003 JD Power Ranking 3 year Study
Well here's the link to the 2003 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study. The study cover 3 year old cars and surveys 55,000 people.
Acura - 5th place 196 problems per 100 Vehicles
Honda - 9th place 218 problems per 100 Vehicles
Saab - 12th place 255 problems per 100 Vehicles
Now this is only one study and does'nt cover the TSX or new 9-3. But the fact of the matter is Honda and Acura have been known and study's have shown that they are more reliable than Saab.
Like I said before, the new 9-3 could be proven to be more reliable than the TSX but going by each companies track record its unlikely. Good luck finding a study that shows Saab being more reliable.
And 93Kewl is right, reliability is'nt everything, or we'd all be driving Toyota's or a Lexus.
And Tinky, I get upset when I present facts and someone calls my post "Sad"
Well here's the link to the 2003 JD Power Vehicle Dependability Study. The study cover 3 year old cars and surveys 55,000 people.
Acura - 5th place 196 problems per 100 Vehicles
Honda - 9th place 218 problems per 100 Vehicles
Saab - 12th place 255 problems per 100 Vehicles
Now this is only one study and does'nt cover the TSX or new 9-3. But the fact of the matter is Honda and Acura have been known and study's have shown that they are more reliable than Saab.
Like I said before, the new 9-3 could be proven to be more reliable than the TSX but going by each companies track record its unlikely. Good luck finding a study that shows Saab being more reliable.
And 93Kewl is right, reliability is'nt everything, or we'd all be driving Toyota's or a Lexus.
And Tinky, I get upset when I present facts and someone calls my post "Sad"
07-31-2003, 03:02 PM
#118
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Yeah domn that's cool, I wasn't trying to point anyone out -- I am one to always defend myself too. If we all keep it all as factual as possible then it's a no lose situation. It starts getting tricky when we have to compare all these different sources done with different tests....starts becoming like "mag racing" but with reliability instead...haha.
07-31-2003, 03:12 PM
#119
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I've always been of the belief that mag racing and reliability studies do actually mean alot as long as you consider more than 3 or 4 sperate tests or studies.
If 5 different car magazines test the TSX in the 1/4 mile at 15.3 to 15.7 how can someone come along and say its a 14.5 sec or 16.5 sec 1/4 car?? The law of averages always wins. If Honda has been ahead of Saab in JD survey and CR reports for the last 6 years does'nt that tell us something?? Are we to just throw all this information out and relay on what your next door neighbour or co-worker is telling you.
Because my Brother in-law has had many problem free years driving a Neon am I to belive a Neon is a reliable car?? Its one person, just like Soopa sister driving a Saab is one person and Larch complaining about his Bimmer problems is one person, it means shit. The law of averages speaks volumes to me. Its no secret that Honda reliability has been dropping for the last few years and studies show this to be the case. Lets look at the big picture.
If 5 different car magazines test the TSX in the 1/4 mile at 15.3 to 15.7 how can someone come along and say its a 14.5 sec or 16.5 sec 1/4 car?? The law of averages always wins. If Honda has been ahead of Saab in JD survey and CR reports for the last 6 years does'nt that tell us something?? Are we to just throw all this information out and relay on what your next door neighbour or co-worker is telling you.
Because my Brother in-law has had many problem free years driving a Neon am I to belive a Neon is a reliable car?? Its one person, just like Soopa sister driving a Saab is one person and Larch complaining about his Bimmer problems is one person, it means shit. The law of averages speaks volumes to me. Its no secret that Honda reliability has been dropping for the last few years and studies show this to be the case. Lets look at the big picture.
07-31-2003, 03:22 PM
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Domn,
Be careful about all these "so-called" studies. Apparently, (as with the JD powers stuff), owners are sent survey's regarding issues in quality. Sometimes I have heard that people can mistake something like a "rattle" as a problem and report it as such. Somethings just can't be helped. Granted, if you have a bunch of reports stating brake failure or engine stalling, etc. that's something to worry about.
But I guess it's interesting, as you say that Honda has been slipping in the last couple of years while Saab has been improving. It's all good however, just as long the the company you buy from remains above the industry average you still come out ok.
Be careful about all these "so-called" studies. Apparently, (as with the JD powers stuff), owners are sent survey's regarding issues in quality. Sometimes I have heard that people can mistake something like a "rattle" as a problem and report it as such. Somethings just can't be helped. Granted, if you have a bunch of reports stating brake failure or engine stalling, etc. that's something to worry about.
But I guess it's interesting, as you say that Honda has been slipping in the last couple of years while Saab has been improving. It's all good however, just as long the the company you buy from remains above the industry average you still come out ok.