RogerPodacter

If anybody remember's from a few months ago, I had my rotors cut at 10K miles. Previous to that I rarely used downshifting/engine breaking. So the dealer cut them for free, and I realized that downshifting would prevent this problem. For the last 8K miles I have used downshifting techniques CONSTANTLY, and my rotors are yet again warped. Very rarely would I have to do a hard break, i.e. in traffic, but that was few and far between.

How can I get the dealer to address this issue. I dont want them cut again, I want them replaced with a different brand. This is unacceptable.

Colin

Roger,

Everyones conditions vary, but there are a couple of "universal" truths that may apply. First of all, cut roters have less mass and are more likely to warp than uncut rotors. I am not aware of anyone having terrible probems with the TSX rotors. Rotors can be warped by over-torqueing the lug nuts. Finally, I doubt if Acura replaces the rotors under warranty (not normally a warranty item) they will use an aftermarket type.

The way I see it, you have two choices: !) Complain loudly and try to get Acura to cover the rotors. 2) Go looking for aftermarket rotors on your own. Personally, I'd try to get Acura to put new ones on under warranty.

tony4311

Might be hard since the cut them for free last time. At this point they'll probably say its the drivers fault and charge him.

1killercls

My question is why in the hell would you utilize "Downshifting techniques" and Prematurly wear out your CLUTCH ? (Way more expensive than brakes and rotors). The rotor issue with Honda Products over the last couple of years seems to have become more prevelant in our cars. I had the same problem on my CL-S and the dealer is aware and have resurfaced them for me. I also believe Honda/Acura has a Service Bulletin out on this as well.

My suggestion...don't wear out your CLUTCH to save you much less expensive ROTORS. The dealer won't replace your CLUTCH for free....

BTW: I will be REPLACING my STOCK ROTORS with these in the VERY Near future
http://www.brakeworld.com/catalog.as...275&invidtype=

1killercls

:bump:

AZTSXer

I agree with the other guys: engine braking went out with jake brakes on tandem coal trucks. Its a long shot but it could be the way the dealer is re-tightening your lug bolts on re-assembly of the car. Mis tightened (some too tight, some too loose) lugs have been known to cause a rotor to warp. That is my only idea on your tough problem.

kurt_bradley

You may have just had a bad set of rotors. I agree that cutting them makes them weaker. See if the dealer will replace them as a warranty repair (but be NICE to them). They have cut them, but not replaced them yet. You may get them to help you out. Just like Colin suggested.

TinkySD

looks like mine might be starting to warp as well. Feeling a little vibration in the brake pedal with moderate breaking force....

leftride

iTrader: (1)

I dont think that is true at all, a clutch is much more robust than a brake and you are not increasing the use of the clutch that much at all.

Swiftoy

I to cut my rotors at about 10k and so far so good. I had my brother in-law do it rather than the dealer. I simply did not want to argue with the dealer on how shitty Honda brakes are. I have YET to own a honda that has not prematurely warped the rotors. My wife had the same issue with her 2001 civic ex. This is a very common problem and has been for quite some time. I hope some day Honda will pull their head out of their ass and complete the drive train and add some decent brakes, well decent rotors meaning the quality of the rotor material. They are just plain garbage. By the way I believe the rotors are suppose to be cut on the car.

idx

I believe mine are starting to warp as well. (~7200mi)

-r

kurt_bradley

The real trouble is that they have taken the brakes to stop a car that weighs a normal amount of weight, and want them to stop a car that weighs 350 pounds more. Get some Spoon rotors. They'll never wear out. Endurance race proven. I use them on my RSX. You lose 3 lbs. of unsprung weight at each corner at the same time. Yes, they're pricy, but I think they're worth it in the end.

1killercls

ask ANYBODY who is an EXPERT (Myself Included)...I am right, you are wrong. Sorry. Brake pads are made from the same material as Clutch discs..only some slight differences.

To replace your Clutch parts and labor??? Can be as much as $1000.00 bucks. To replace your brake pads and have the Rotors resurfaced...about $250.00 or $300.00 bucks.

You do the MATH. :shakehd:

leftride

iTrader: (1)

I am not saying that the cost isnt more, but I dont think that engine braking is going to SIGNIFICANTLY wear out your clutch, it isnt a 1:1 ratio for brake wear to clutch wear to slow down a car. I have been told numerous times (by experts) to downshift and use your engine to slow you down when driving in the mountains. A hot brake pad isnt going to help slow you down much.

illmeltxwithyou

You are a expert of making yourself look like an ass. Slowing down with you clutch is not going to do anything to it. I've had a 2 Mt before I got my TSX I put over 100,000 miles on them both. While using my clutch to slow me down.

jiggaman

so if you replace the brakes with spoon rotors do you have to replace the calipers and pads too?

1killercls

First off BLOW ME

Second, I am a DEGREED MECHANICAL ENGINEER with over 12 years experiance in SCCA Solo and Club racing. YES, when racing or driving with aggresion Downshifting is a Viable and Required method of slowing your vehicle. In EVERYDAY DRIVING however it is a WASTE and can cause PREMATURE ATTRITION of wearable parts..i,e...THE CLUTCH. I say this from EXPERIANCE..not OPINION. You are only in your early twenties, I am 43 and have been working on abnd racing cars since I was a little boy with my father. WISDOM owns you.

Clutches are MORE EXPENSIVE TO REPLACE than BRAKES. YES, its that simple.

1killercls

In the case of Mountain Driving utilzing the GEARS is a Valid and safer mechanism to slow your car. In my previous posts I was addressing the issue of Everyday driving and trying to eliveate premature Clutch wear and Brake (Rotor)Warpage issues.

Cypher

OK, I feel the need to say something here. I have nothing against either illmeltxwithyou or 1killercls. I strongly agree with one of you on the debate that you two have started here. However I must say that I also strongly disagree with the tone that you have both taken with one another. Lets keep this forum a place that we can disagree and discuss our differences, and maybe share our view of the other side of the coin. I have seen to many other forums go to shit becaus people started arguing over petty shit. Over time there starts to form a division in the forum, and all you end up with is an argument forum where nothing is acomplished. If a fellow TSX owner choses to tear up his car, then so be it. He makes the payments on it, thats his descision. SO I guess my point is. One of us will end up with a worn out clutch, and the other a worn out set of brake pads. But who cares what the other guy's doing to his car!

1killercls

^^^^^^

Point taken..I just get pissed when a Smart Ass Kid opens his trap and is WRONG . My intial posts were to be a HELP..based on my EXPERIANCE and Knowledge..not just an opinion.

sauceman

5 posts... :noob:

Welcome here, and get to know the members before giving anyone a lesson.

1killercls

He did make a good point...:P

tony4311

When you talk about slowing down the car by down shifting how much are you down shifting? are you going down through all the gears?

I'll usually drop it down one gear a little before I have to start breaking but thats it.

sauceman

Bah, no problem with some little flaming, as long as it doesn't get to personnal attacks or insults, IMO. Anyway, I don't think someone new is well placed to just pop up and start moralling members who he doesn't know about, or hasn't been reading his comments for a while. Noobies need to get into the context of this forum, then if they want to flame or suggest something, theywill know what they're talking about.

Cypher

Sauceman,

I did not attack or flame anyone. And I knew the entire context. I read this forum daily, and read damn near every post that is made on it. Just because I do not have a comment to make about every single post that has been made on this forum, does not make me unqualified to try and make sure that people are treated fairly, and try to protect the integrity of our forum for all users current, and future!

That includes watching out for your wellbeing. I hope that you notice that I pointed out that I strongly agreed with one of the the other members, however I kept it to myself as to which one I agreed with! I felt that if I had taken sides it would have undermined the integrity of the point that I was making!

Cheers!

RogerPodacter

I am back from the a weekend away...

Well I totally agree that rotors are much easier and cheaper to fiix than a new clutch. And that was my mentality for the first 10K miles. And they warped.

BUT, When I donwshift I pretty much rev match PERFECTLY, everytime. This causes little to no clutch slippage. Thus leaving only the engine to bear any wear and tear. The issue then is, is this extra load on the engine significant? I dont think so...

RogerPodacter

Yes i go through most of the gears, but usually stop at either 3rd or 2nd and just coast the rest of the way (i.e. coming to a redlight). At this point i am usually going around 20-25mph...

sauceman

Ok, Cypher... Not gonna argue against your obvious goodwill. Goog luck!

1killercls

Its MONDAY morning...and I have a WHOLE NEW ATTITUDE!

It's YOUR CAR...do what you want.

DEVO

Replacing your rotors with the same OEM sized rotors, whether it be Brembo or not, you are still going to get warping. The reason being that the rotors on the TSX are too small. The only way to really solve this problem is by going bigger. So you need bigger rotors but I don't know if this also requires bigger calipers. If it doesn't then I would do this first. You now have more surface and mass to work with... which will in turn lessen the chance of warping.

rb1

I owned Honda and Acura cars for over 15 years and here's my $0.02.

Never, ever, ever turn a Honda rotor. They are almost guaranteed to warp if you do. If they do warp, replace them rather than turn them. Don't turn the rotors when you get your pads replaced. Yes, the pads will take a little longer to seat and might not last quite as long as they would on a fresh rotor, but the pads are cheaper.

I had a pair of rotors last 135,000+ miles in my Integra once I learned this lesson (replaced at 60,000 miles after turning with pad replacement and then warping immediately, still going strong at 197,000 miles when I sold the car).

While engine break-in is less important now than in the past, it is still important to break-in your brakes. You should avoid hard stops in the first 200-500 miles of ownership (and after having pads or rotors replaced). Just one panic stop in the early miles can lead to premature warping.

TeigerSX

Killer, there was a discussion a couple of weeks ago about the downshifting vs. braking. Link.

Check it out, and weigh in further.

Only 3000 miles on the TSX, but no problems with the brakes. No shaking or vibrating. Hope the dealer helps you out, Roger.

TEIGER

illmeltxwithyou

Haha everyones a expert in this forum

KJLite

back to the issue at hand. i think the guy who started this post either has defective rotors, or can't drive.

I have 16K miles on my car, no brake problems.

As far as TSX brakes suckin, i disagree. The auto magazines all seem to think that they aren't up to snuff, but in the real world, i've never had a problem with the brakes, 16K miles!.

As far as improving braking, a cheaper alternative to upgrading caliper size would be to replace the springs +/- putting on better tires. By putting on stiffer springs, you will decrease dive on breaking and thuis decrease the amount of weight transfer onto the front brakes during braking. i am still running stock right now, but i'll let you know springtime when i swap out the springs.

my 2 cents

RogerPodacter

I hear ya mang - its alllll good

jiggaman

I agree, I honestly have never felt that the brakes are not up to snuff on the TSX. Yes the rear ones look kinda tiny in my opinion but i have never had a problem stopping in time. Plus there are very smooth when you apply them. I have the Pro kit in my car and feel that they make a huge improvement in the feel of the car when it brakes and when you accelerate.

1killercls

:noob:

Soze75

Alright folks

I'm soon to be going in for my first service. The whole warped rotor issue is numba 1 on my list of gripes. I have never had a panic stop in 7 months. I am a downshifter - a la tony4311 - and I know my rotors are screwed, I think
Not always, but quite often, my car pulls drastically to the right when braking. I should have taken it in when it did this 2 miles away from the dealership on delivery day. I'm a procrastinating fool and since this doesn't occur ALL THE TIME, I felt I'd be OK to wait until 1st service. Now, the damn thing is pulling left sometimes

As far as pedal vibration goes, I've not felt it yet, but this is probably due to the fact that I rarely brake hard.

Have I screwed myself for waiting for this problem to be addressed at 1st service?

Would all who have or have had the pulling problem, please tell me some good news.

sauceman

Soze, it's not a problem to wait before reporting, in fact, you stand better documented with the problem. If they ask precise questions, you can answer more precisely. As long as you report the problem during your warranty period, you're ok.

tony4311

I'm thinking defective rotors. Then they turned the defective rotors which made it worse