gthrow8awayr

I was looking to spend 600$ for 4 new 6.5s, 2 10's, a sub enclosure, a multichannel amp to power the whole thing + about 100$ for install.

Well, when I went to the local body shop...the guy told me to get a multichannel amp in the TSX, I HAVE HAVE HAVE to get a LOC (line out converter, which is about 200$). He told me "since the car is exisquisite you need a high end amp". I'm like "yo, the only reason I want new 6.5s is to keep up with the sensitivity of the subs."

Well, after all was said and done, i got a quote for 2 MemphisAudio 12's a Clarion Amp, an Enclosure, and install for $549...I thought I could've got the subs and the amp for 300$ and spent the rest on the 6.5s.

ANY IDEAS?

narci

Did a quick search on what it is.

http://www.sjgreatdeals.com/pacsni35.html

Use when adding an amplifier to a factory or aftermarket radio
Provides an additional set of pre-amp outputs from a Head unit equipped with only 1 set
Linear from 20 Hz–10 kHz at +/-.5 dB, while maintaining signal phase
Isolates input & output circuits to prevent ground loop noise
Adjusts the signal from 2W to 40W per channel with signals below 20 Hz cut-off


Sounds about right. I remmeber my friend who's an installer saying the stock radio runs on a certain ohm or soemthing and you can't just hook up an aftermarket amp to a OEM deck.

Not sure about $200.

Sebo

how is the OEM amp connected, it's not via A/V cables?

gthrow8awayr

so is a LOC is just a splitter (nub terminology). Are they all the same, or would I need something that would split it into 6 preamp outputs... thanks for the help btw narci

Dan Martin

Have you checked out our Audio & Video section? https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/

NFLblitze1

i think for 600 dollars getting all of that stuff is unrealistic for that price......unless your getting some shit like VISIONIK or PYLE or that crap...but i don't think u could even get that cheap with that poor quality

Zasker1

I am a little confused here as $600 is nothing for car audio. A decent amp to push two 10's typicaly runs about $400. I am not trying to be rude but please help me understand why you think $600 is a high price as even mid level 6.5's are about $80-150 a pair???

I agree with Narci, you can buy a LOC for cheap, Fry's electronic has them for about $25 bucks. Make sure you buy a 4 channel one and not a two channel one.
This is a pretty good one, as it has a grounding wire:

http://www.cardomain.com/item/PERSVEN4

gthrow8awayr

Thanks Danny

Here's what I found on the DIY

11) Which LOC should I use? (answered in 2004 by El DUDE)

NONE. The TSX does not need an LOC of any kind unless the R 6x9 wires are being used for a sub. You may want to use a line driver or a part (EQ, Xover) with a line driver in it. This has been proven repeatedly.

gthrow8awayr

3) What about the Amplifier?

The HU has two full-range preamp outputs to the OE amp, which is almost directly under the NOT AN ASHTRAY. The amp generates F mids and highs to the dash tweet and the F door mid, R mids and highs to the R door mid, and constant, non-fading bass to the 6x9 woofers in the R deck. The amp is the size of a paperback book, uses IC’s inside, and is NOT powerful.

There seems to be a very clean signal to the amp. While there are no RCA connections, this output has the same type voltage and signal as an aftermarket non-4V HU (single-ended, not differential like Bose systems, etc.). You can cut the wires and splice an RCA in with no ill effects. At this writing no amp adapter is available on the aftermarket (I’m working on it : )

3 questions

1. Has EL duderino ever gotten around to making this "amp adapter" and if so where can I find it.

2. Whats a "non-4v HU" ( I want to use my OEM HU...but still)

3. So how can I approach the misinformed AV Shop guy( of the LOC being 200 and my car needing a LOC)

AZ fuheva

gthrow8awayr

Hi again Zasker

I've been doing a lot of online research and a "Decent" (my definition varies from yours :why me: :lol: ) but I've found respectable 4-channel 800 watt amps from kenwood for 150 BRAND NEW. =150 dollars

The 6.5's I was looking at Audiobahn were for 49 bucks a pop. Audiobahn AS65Q 3 way full range speakers that push 100 watts RMS. = 200 dollars

The subs I was looking at (the kicker 10 comps) are 60 bucks a pop. = 120 dollars

I'm up to 470...the rest of the 130 I can spend on an enclosure for the subs.

After the installation/parts/labor cost ill definately be under 650.

Tell me what you guys think of my choices or

Feel free to bust my bubble

Zasker1

So with this layout your amp is a week link, an 800watt amp for 150 probably can only sustain 800w for about 1 second at a very specific frequency range. I have a Sony explode 5 channel amp that has 880 watts (advertised) that I paid about 250 for 2 years ago. I just put a PG 100w.4 into my Honda for giggles before installing in my TSX and it truly stomps the Sony. Technical its only a 400w amp but its a truer?? power rating than the Sony. Your Kenwood amp will sound better than a stock HU but if you try to bump your speakers are going to show distortion, not because they cannot take the power but because the AMP is being over taxed.

Having done about 3 systems myself, I am definably sold on the fact that you buy one good composite at a time, not the best but a good one. You will be much happier down the road.

What I will be running right now
Diamond 6.5 composites: 300
Diamond 6x9 200
PG 100.4 amp 350

So I am at 850 for just parts, wires are more etc. At this price point I would say I have a good system, but its far from say badass, completive, its just well rounded or slightly above average.
Subs have het to be installed.

At the 600 price point I would focus on good speakers and a better amp and buy the sub's and sub amp later..

Most Important Point:
Don't buy speakers without hearing them, every brand has its own "Timber" or sound, Take a set of say MB Quarts, your Autobahn, and a set of say Alpines that all have the same price point and listen to them and you would be surprise at how different they sound. The best approach will be to "audition" several brands of speakers at your price point decide which ones sound best and than shop around. Careful of buying online though as many brands do not offer a warrantee if you buy online from an non authorized dealer. Thus if you buy from say ebay, you are on your own if they blow 3 weeks down the road.
I have to go to bed now as I have a plan to Seattle in 5hrs. ~

Good Luck..

Very reputable site: http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/

Spoon

Ha ha. Cheap? Yes. Reputable? No. I've bought stuff from there and would do so again, but...while it's not a fly-by-night op, it is funny how serial numbers are often missing...

gthrow8awayr

Thanks Zasker

Whenever I read the FAQs and DIYs your name was always on there as early as 2004. So I take it you know your audio. THe prices that i stated on my post were all from www.onlinecarstereo.com . The guy said he'd pricematch so I'll take that to him.

Yeah you're right about the timbre, I'll check different speakers out. Also,

Good luck in seattle

gthrow8awayr

...Serial numbers :-0

jiggaman

composites?

vitocorleone

I was told that you do NOT need a OC when I had my 4ch amp installed. YMMV.

gthrow8awayr

YMMV Lil too much FW and SD, I see

Zasker1

thats and intresting statment asI have bought 11 items from them and all were new in sealed factory boxes.

Zasker1

Thanks,
I am defianly not an expert but I have done all of my own installs so I have leanred primarly by making mistakes and learning from them. My TSX is the first time that I have had a larger budget for componites but I have been buying them one at a time so I get exsaclty what I need.

exxtractor

You need to know that you could easily pay $650 for an amp alone. Don't be mislead by "peak" rms vs "continuous" rms. Most of the numbers you see on the side of an amp cover are peak rms, that's what the other member was saying about "lasting a second". Always look for the "continuous" power. Clarion and kenwood amps I'm not a big fan of. I'd try brands like Kicker, Alpine, Rockford Fosgate (though some Pioneer speakers are very good). One thing I'd like to suggest, is not to mess around with adding 6.5" speakers and a sub, but just add a sub with a bass control switch, and see if you can match the sensitivity of the amp, to the stock setup. My gut feeling is this will add the bass you desire. What can happen when you change the stock fronts, is that the power needed to make the same volume will be much higher, but you kept the stock speakers in the other locations, and so you might end up getting the rear speakers to sound louder, that your fronts, in witch you then start playing with the front/back level to balance it out, but this could kill the line level to your amp, depending if where you have taken the signal from.

If you desire to want a "nice" system, then save a few more dollars, and change all speakers and tweeters, add a sub, and then install cross overs, etc and 1 or 2 amps. Could be looking at $1200-1000 or so, but might be able to get a deal on the install.

jiggaman

stereos are a money pit, that's all i know

exxtractor

Also, don't use the guy you first talked to, seems like he's wanting to just make some cash off you, selling you terrible brands, and quoting $200 for a LOC, when it cost him maybe $20-$40.

jlukja

Big Pimpin

LOL there was one guy from A&B sound here in Vancouver who tried to sell me a 950 dollar amp and tried to convince me that I need it for everything to work and I told the guy I went some where else and I knew that wasnt true so I basically told him to go fuck himself cause I didnt start this life ten seconds ago.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

There is a lot of hit and miss good info in here...

My summary and added input

1) $600 for 4 speakers, amp, subs and install is pretty unrealistic (I've done systems for people where $600 will barely cover the sound deadining)

2) Listen to as much as you can before you buy ANYTHING

3) Go to a reputable local shop, someone who actually knows what they are talking about, and bounce your system off of them

4) Decide what it is you want out of your system before you start throwing around how good of a deal you can get on an 800 watt amp

4a) FWIW it is 800 watts peak bridged at 14.4v that = ~350 watts RMS bridged at 14.4v = ~250 watts rms bridged at 12.5v = ~100 x2 @4 ohm and 12.5 = a REAL 200 watt amp. If you want to know how much power an amp will really produce, look at its fuse rating the general rule of thumb is fused 10A/100 watts of max RMS power ( i.e. 300 watts rms @ 2 ohm would be about a 30A fuse) That amp may say it does 700 watts, but you are really getting a 300 watt amp.

5) Did I mention listen to as much as you can before you buy anything

6) Be weary of buying car stereo (all stereo really) from the internet. Most of your reputable manufacturers do not authorize online sales and will not warranty the product. I'm not saying don't buy online, just be very sure of who you are dealing with.

7) Don't skimp on install. If you do not feel comfortable doing it yourself there is nothing wrong with paying a professional to do it for you. Just be aware that you will pay decent money for a decent install. This goes for speaker install to box build...the whole thing.

8) You do not HAVE to have an LOC. If it has a built in linedriver then it would be worth the $$, but even then you can get a VERY NICE LOC, like a Soundgate LOCHVA or LOC4.2 for less than $75.

If you walked into my shop and just told me you wanted 4 6.5s, subs, box, amp, and install I would tell you total package you would be in the $1000-$1200 range for good mid-line equipment.

I would then qualify you to find out what you are really tring to get out of the system...then I could give you a really good estimate on what you really need to get what you want.

gthrow8awayr

Thanks again for the expert opinions. So you have a shop I see...?

1. So any opinions/suggestions on a nice sounding, reliable TSX-worthy sound system? (I listen to hip/hop and other bass heavy music but occasionally listen to classical music that requires something other than just SPL)

2. It's come to my attention that if you use amps with high level inputs that accept balanced signals, then you won't need LOCs. What other amps are there that have high level inputs and accept balanced signals other than the JL 400/4?

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

I am the service manager at a shop, not owner

It is not really if it will accept balanced signal input...what is cool about the 450/4 from JL (and all of their slash amps) is the differential input on the amplifier. What this does is present virtually no load to the head unit when adding an amp. A lot of factory radios will "see" the amp connected sense a change in load and either mute their output or start making all kinds of noise. Most good LOCs use a differential input as well and that is why they are needed in some cars. The only time a differential input is bad is in some german cars like vws and bmws where the factory amps have to see a certain load or they just shut off. In those cases you HAVE to use an LOC.

If you listen mainly to hip-hop I would start with a good sub/amp setup. To get the most boom for the buck look at a class D mono amp and put 2 10s or 2 12s in a vented box. This will give you the output you are lookingfor with out having to spend a ton of $$$. Plus you will be amazed how much better your speakers sound when you are not asking them to play really low end bass anymore. Leabe the bass on your deck at 0 and let the subs handle all of the low end. From there, if you are still unhappy with the mids and highs look at replacing them.

Did I mention listen to as much as you can before buying anything?

P.S. If you are even REMOTELY considering a 450/4 from JL you can throw $600 out the window

gthrow8awayr

^^^

See, I'm not really considering a JL amp per se, but I do want an amp that has differential-balanced inputs ...and you're right those JL 450/4's are $$$ out the :window:

btw...you only need one LOC right? so having a mediocre amp rated at 400 watts continuous RMS with an LOC will be equivalent to that of a JL amp that accepts differential-balanced inputs.


Hmmm... but i'd rather just have an amp with differentials? anything other than the "slash" JLs?

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

You need a LOC for each set of channels you want to use...So, if you are using a 4 cha amp, you would want 4ch of LOC. This will allow you to keep you fader control.

There are quite a few things on the JL slash amps that make them as expensive as they are and the quality they are. R.I.P.S. power supply, x-over section, and build quality just to name a few. So, a mediocre amp with an LOC most likely will not be equivilent to a slash.

The thing is, a differential input is not a cheap option to put into an amp design so if you find another one it will most likely be in the ballpark of the JL $ wise. Plus, you will not find a "cheap amp" with this feature. It is considered a higher end option, thus on higher end amps.

As long as you can get a clean full range signal, an LOC is not REALLY required. Especially for subs only. The output on the stock deck (at least the front channel output) should mate with anything that has high level inputs pretty easily.

gthrow8awayr

So this http://www.cardomain.com/item/PERSVEN4 would be good enough for a 4 channel amp and I would need only one, right? So the dude that quoted me $200 was trying to (rip me off) feed his kids?

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

yup, that should do it. Like I said a REALLY nice 4 channel LOC, like a Soundgate LOC4.4 would be ~$85 at full retail...so I don't know where the dude got $200 for an LOC. The only thing even close is a JL Clean sweep, but that is closer to $400.