larchmont

Hopefully if Floozy hangs around here long enough, his sense of humor will improve.

(BTW, Adam -- I was being mostly sarcastic. I think most people realized that, but, granted, it wasn't completely obvious.)

vitocorleone

Message boards for the "superior" German/European cars on the Net have plenty of reports of squeaks and rattles (as an example, check the new 9-3). Another unsupported blanket statement :-)

adam fiooz

9-3 is saab correct?i wouldent call that a "superior" euro car.

fastcommute

The vault-like feel gilboman is refering to comes from the extra weight and the suspension tuning. I prefer the light go-cart feel of Honda but it can make a car feel less "substantial" and "upscale". I would definitely consider an A4 more upscale but I would purchase a TSX first....

Iceman

I'm surprised to hear you say this. I have been very impressed by the TSX's suspension's ability to absorb bumps when cornering. I can't think of a time when I had to back off because the car changed direction due to a bump.

93Kewl

May not be "superior" but it damn sure is smoooooth and gives the "played out" BMW and Baby Benz a run for it's money.

Plus the fact that the car is selling well means that more and more people are considering and buying 9-3's for those in the high 20's and low 30's market segment.

Remember, Acura is in the same boat as Saab...providing quality cars (perhaps not superior in any one category) targeted at respective market segments.

Knock on wood, not a squeak or rattle yet - and I have to deal with some tough NYC roads! I will however change the stock Pirelli's (summer tires) with some Ultra-high performance All-Seasons...something like the Contental ExtremeContacts (rated very highly in all categories on Tirerack.

planman

I think this is probably a pretty fair comparison, Iceman. If you compare out-the-door price instead of sticker price, I'd bet the two are more evenly matched.

Also, are you comparing Audi's 5-speed manual or their new 6-speed? The 6 is supposed to be a huge improvement. Anyone driven it yet?

larchmont

Sounds like you might have misunderstood Ice's rating scale on price ("TSX 10, Audi 7"). I think he WAS talking OTD, and he meant that TSX costs LESS, thus gets a higher (better) score.

planman

If you're such an Audi afficianado, wouldn't you know that it's called RS6...not S6 (which, by the way, is a killer machine no matter what you call it)? Are you seriously just here to see how many people you can piss off?

planman

In principle I agree with you here, Iceman. But to be fair, the 17" rims are included in the Audi sport package. Even at a higher sticker price, we have to ask...is there more negotiating room in the Audi vs. TSX? I don't know, but it seems so.

Either way, the TSX is one hell of a value...and both are great cars.

adam fiooz

If you're such an Audi afficianado, wouldn't you know that it's called RS6...not S6 (which, by the way, is a killer machine no matter what you call it)? Are you seriously just here to see how many people you can piss off?


Sorry man you are correct i was just reading about it in motor trend and one drove by my store yesterday.Jesus that car is sweet to bad its 75 grand.lol

planman

Nah, I think I understand. At sticker, I think the TSX wins the price competition by this margin. But based on the huge discounts that seem to be available on the Audi, I'm not sure you can justify a 30% gap in the scores based on drive-out price.

Of course, when it comes down to it, I'm a fan of the one-price Acura philosophy. It ticks me off the MB, BMW, etc. advertise $25,000 models when there's no such thing in the real world because you can't buy/order one without $5K-$10K worth of options.

lshenretty

Nor would most people want them stripped.

It might be interesting to think what the TSX would be like stripped and priced at....what?...$20K? I'd bet people would still rave about it because of its fundamental drive qualities. And I'd also bet we'd still have the arguments about stripped TSX vs stripped 325.

vitocorleone

Also note that if you do manage to buy a stripped BMW or Merc etc., then your resale value is going to suck in comparison to "normally" equipped models because the market demand for a stripped luxury car is virtually non-existant.

MotownTSX

Hahahaha...yeah, we just had a discussion on this the other day at one of the "darkside" forums.

We were laughing because a couple of guys on the forum had set-ups like:

330i, sport pkg, 5-sp, NOTHING ELSE.

540i, 17" wheels, 5-sp, green metallic paint, THAT'S IT.

Etc., etc.

A few were leases so they were laughing at what the dealers face would look like when it was time to turn them in or ask "what will you gimme for this...." Hahahaha...

Only enthusiasts would buy those set-ups. Hahaha...it was a really funny discussion. (had to be there)

Iceman

I was comparing the A4 I drove at the end of last year, which was a 5-speed. Also, my son-in-law bought an A4 with the CVT tranny last year at my recommendation.

The Minnesota dealers don't even bother to stock the FWD versions of the A4 (except for CVT). It's Quattro or nothing, and the price difference is significant.

gilboman

its more suspension tuning/suspension geometry and chasis tuning moreso than weight itself...the TSX is not much lighter and certainly not noticably lighter than a A4 or 3series but it still doesnt feel as vault like... and the numb steering/lack of feedback and weight of recent Hondas (ahem RSX) dont give the go cart feeling either...which is why i was so dissapointed in the RSX

Maxim

Maxim

That's exactly right. Who wants to deal with Audi problems anyway? I test drove both cars twice. I'd give the edge to Audi when it comes to the fun factor (what's that anyway?), but in the end you've got to go with the TSX. Even the Audi salesman was willing to concede that the A4 had "problems." He even pointed out something that I didn't previously know--something to do with grooves on the windshield. They can't even get that right.

SPUDMTN

Ay There is an Audi S6. It's the high-performance Avant in Audi's line. Look into it next time


SPUDMTN

spOOge

what a retarded thread this has turned into.

Jason

I ran into something similar. The dealership where I test drove the TSX is also an Audi store. I had commented about how nice the A4 looked, and the salesman let loose with a barrage of criticisms about Audi quality and lack of value. He said the Audi service department is constantly slammed, and the Acura service department is busy. The Audi service area is TWICE the size of the Acura area.

gilboman

he must have had a glut of Acura's and inventory was low on the Audi's...

lushious000

This thread has become stupid! I may be just a chick, or whatever who doesn't know much about cars, but I know enough to realize that just like anythign else in this world, taste in vehicles is subjective. An argument can be made for/against any car in the world... ferraris, lambos, and NSXes included! This is a TSX forum so 90 percent of the people on it are going to say the TSX is better no matter what (myself included). So these arguments are futile!

lovitz

Exactly.

I'm not even an owner of a TSX ( Just trying to learn ). I really like the car and that's why I read and post here.

Mr. Fuzzyshizzle

Your opinions are simply not welcome here. Why you are even in an Acura forum is beyond me. Since you are a fan of domestics, I suggest talking here instead:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/goto?forumid=8154

Jason

Sure Gilbo, this guy had so many TSXs he didn't know what to do with himself.

I-MOD

I have been following this thread for some time now. I find a lot of it to be pretty funny and lame. My neighbor is a good friend of mine and works in the same building I do. He is a big European car nut and has owned nothing but for years. We also leave for work around the same time most days when he is going to be working out of his DC office. We cat around every time we go to work. From light to light and on the highway. He has yet to beat me off the line in his 1.8t Audi. And on the highway it's almost funny how I work him. He keeps up fine but he can't get past me. He just stays right behind the whole time. I personally like the looks of his car and it's got nice lines. But he did pay 2 grand more than my MSRP and didn't even get Nav for that. He got it pretty much with all the goodies. So far he has had his in the shop now twice in the last 3 months. First time he had a clunking noise that turned out to be the ball joint I think. The second time had him calling a tow truck. Turned out to be something with the throttle sensor. Both had him out of his car for two days each. Fully covered under warranty but a hassle no less. I think the Audi is a pretty cool car but to have those issues at just over 4500 miles, come on that is less than a reliable car in my book. He just says that's part of owning European cars and people who buy them just expect that and deal with it. He has had BMW's and had the same issues and mentality on that car to. We both take our cars to the track now and then and his car does handle well. The first time we went he worked me pretty good in the turns. But after I lowered mine and put on decent tires it was a whole new story. I'd say his car has better brakes but can't hold hard turns like my TSX does. We both drive each others cars at the track so I'm not just blowing smoke here. I have been in them both first hand. Another point I will make. The Audi has a serious loss of power after an hour or so of hard driving on the track. Once the turbo gets nice and hot it becomes much less affective and power suffers. I have not had this problem with my TSX. One other point is that adding the chip to the Audi does void the computers warranty, an item which is a frequent repair seen at his Audi dealership from what the mechanic told him. He decided to hold off on the chip until warranty runs out to avoid problems with warranty. Overall both are fun cars and both have nice point and bad point. But to say the Audi is faster and more reliable is just not accurate at all. If you haven't driven both and had the pleasure of driving both to the limits at a track you might want to just refrain from posting until you have. Magazines get paid to advertise and are biased, they have been forever, it's a widely known fact. You want an accurate test of cars. Go drive them both and decide for yourself. I for one will be keeping my TSX and will enjoy watching my buddy's Audi in my rear view on the way to work.

bbbuzzy

I have been following this thread for some time now. I find a lot of it to be pretty funny and lame. My neighbor is a good friend of mine and works in the same building I do. He is a big European car nut and has owned nothing but for years. We also leave for work around the same time most days when he is going to be working out of his DC office. We cat around every time we go to work. From light to light and on the highway. He has yet to beat me off the line in his 1.8t Audi. And on the highway it's almost funny how I work him. He keeps up fine but he can't get past me. He just stays right behind the whole time. I personally like the looks of his car and it's got nice lines. But he did pay 2 grand more than my MSRP and didn't even get Nav for that. He got it pretty much with all the goodies. So far he has had his in the shop now twice in the last 3 months. First time he had a clunking noise that turned out to be the ball joint I think. The second time had him calling a tow truck. Turned out to be something with the throttle sensor. Both had him out of his car for two days each. Fully covered under warranty but a hassle no less. I think the Audi is a pretty cool car but to have those issues at just over 4500 miles, come on that is less than a reliable car in my book. He just says that's part of owning European cars and people who buy them just expect that and deal with it. He has had BMW's and had the same issues and mentality on that car to. We both take our cars to the track now and then and his car does handle well. The first time we went he worked me pretty good in the turns. But after I lowered mine and put on decent tires it was a whole new story. I'd say his car has better brakes but can't hold hard turns like my TSX does. We both drive each others cars at the track so I'm not just blowing smoke here. I have been in them both first hand. Another point I will make. The Audi has a serious loss of power after an hour or so of hard driving on the track. Once the turbo gets nice and hot it becomes much less affective and power suffers. I have not had this problem with my TSX. One other point is that adding the chip to the Audi does void the computers warranty, an item which is a frequent repair seen at his Audi dealership from what the mechanic told him. He decided to hold off on the chip until warranty runs out to avoid problems with warranty. Overall both are fun cars and both have nice point and bad point. But to say the Audi is faster and more reliable is just not accurate at all. If you haven't driven both and had the pleasure of driving both to the limits at a track you might want to just refrain from posting until you have. Magazines get paid to advertise and are biased, they have been forever, it's a widely known fact. You want an accurate test of cars. Go drive them both and decide for yourself. I for one will be keeping my TSX and will enjoy watching my buddy's Audi in my rear view on the way to work.




Thanks for saying all that. I haven't had the pleasure of doing such a thorough comparison, but it's exactly how I feel. The A4 looks and rides nice but the frequent visits to the shop make it a joke. Let the europhiles keep paying. Someone has to help the sluggish economy.

dabuda

nice reply I-MOD

i got this from the audi site just to compare numbers.

0-60 mph in seconds:
Tiptronic quattro: 8.5
Manual quattro: 7.9
multitronic FrontTrak: 7.8
manual FrontTrak: 7.8

cant find any official numbers form the acura site but the auto mags have varied from 7.2-7.9secs for the 6SPD

I-MOD

I got two PM's about the light to light racing so i'll post more info on that to clear things up. Keep in mind we have done this like 50 times now and not once has he pulled on me. I have him on the jump by half a car length, once his turbo spools up he makes up ground fast and his nose is right at my driver door but fades back fast when shifting gears to second, i think because the shifter is faster in the TSX and his turbo has lag hurts him here. Once the turbo spools back up after the shift he is at my quarter panel and it's about like that up through 4th with the slight drop back on shifts and then he pulls back up to my quarter. From there we usually let off so we aren't getting to fast on public roads.
Some might say i'm a better driver but I'd say he is about the same as i am. He as been going to the track for years like i have. He loves his car like nothing else but will freely admit mine is faster then his. Not something an Audi owner would do freely if he actually believed his car was faster. I will say that with a chip he will be faster, but give me the extra 2 grand he spent on his car, plus the $500 for his chip and I doubt his car will be able to stay within 5 car length of mine in the quarter mile. Point is with $2500 in mods the TSX will punish the A4. Sorry to disappoint but the facts don't lie. Dollar for dollar the TSX is your best bang for the buck when compared to the A4. And did I mention I'll still have NAV and he won't?

darth62

Basically, those of you who say the TSX and Audi are similar in terms of goodies and optoins have not spent a whole lot of time in an Audi. My sister's A4 has way more thougtfuls feature than my car does. Just take a look inside her trunk, where all the nooks and crannies are covered with built-in storage nets. Every thing just feels higher in quality, whereas cost cutting is evident in the TSX (so-so stereo, lack of rear vents, etc). Her car also comes standard with brake assist and EBD, features not available on the TSX. And, in terms of interior materials, the TSX is barely in the same league.

My sister was able to get me a very good deal on an Audi, and I turned it down to go with the TSX. I'd do it again. Honda makes a very reliable car that is easy to maintain and comfortable as hell. In contrast, all the German cars we've owned have been nothing but trouble (and, between my sisters and parents, we've probably had 6 or 7 BMWs, M-Bs., and Audis). I will not tolerate low reliability, because I do no need the aggravation.

But, my point is that the Audi has a nicer interior and exterior than the TSX, handles and rides just as well, and has some features the TSX does not. I think the Honda 2.4 4-cyl is superior to any engine made by VW/Audi (including the V6) but that is probalby in issue that is open for debate.

Anyway,, I'm glad I choose the TSX, but I can see why others go for the Audi.

I-MOD

I totally agree, the Audi is a nice car and has some cool stuff on it. But to hear Audi guys say it's better in performance and reliabilty is just funny. And as far as those trunk nets go. I'm all over the idea of adding them to the TSX. Very nice touch in the Audi. I have to say though that the interior is kind of bland in the Audi but well made.

D.

slo007

My family has an A6 Avant Quattro 2.8 that lost $17,000 in value in 3 years (paid $42K for a 2000 model). That's trade-in. Private market loss is $12,000 according to KBB, however I doubt I can get that much either. (50,000 miles)

Based on the value of the A6 and other VWs, I expect the A4 to lose substantial value. :shakehd: :thumbsdn:

darth62

\

The A4 looses 50% of its value in less than 3 years.

Suggesting that the Audi has better resale than the TSX (which currently has one of the highest residuals of any car on the road) is total nonsense.

mike91711

1 month ago I was trying to decide on the Audi A4 or the TSX...After driving both, reading all the reviews I could get my hands on, visiting dealers...I decided on the TSX..The Audi A4 actually costs more than the TSX if they are comparably equipped...The Sports package for the Audi is $1000, the leather package is $1400, HID headlights $500, etc, etc..

And to top it all off, the Acura is far more reliable than the Audi...Don't fall for the myth of German quality.

Iceman

I think the A4 is the best-looking sedan on the road. But I will take the TSX's interior, engine, transmission, reliability, and price over the A4.