Bahahahahaha. That's almost as lame as the 9-3 interior! You're a funny guy kewl.

 

Thanks man. I've got fog lights, all-season mats, wheel locks, and splash guards. I'm not a big fan of the body kit or the spoiler.

The paint is very easy to maintain. I think it's the perfect combination of a darker car with the ability to NOT show all dust and dirt.

 

Funny, but true.

 

93kewl... jngold from saabcentral.com, by any chance?

see, you have a 9-3, and know of all the nifty lil features... which is another reason why you like the car so much.

but remember, as much as it's hard to accept, saab is an acquired taste. it's either love at first sight, or well, you become one of these guys.

heh i'm sure saab appreciate your devotion to spread the love for saab. ask them to put you on their payroll.

 

This is the all-time lamest 'my car is better than yours' comment I've heard from someone other than floozy. If you like the Saab's look better, fine. If you think the TSX is too bland, fine. Who gives a shit what auto critics say about styling??? Their opinions on the driving characteristics and so forth have value, but styling is sooo subjective.

BTW, I think the 9-3 is a great looking car. I think the same thing about my TSX (and that A4 for that matter).

I think freeride is right - your staunch defense of the 9-3 is definitely worthy of some of Saab's $$$. Speaking of which, they seem to be advertising a lot more these days - how are their sales?

 

yea... like manmeat. JUST SAY NO.

 

So typical of TSX owners that you should take that comment as a "mine is better than yours" statement. It's just a fact. Most of the auto reviews that I have read about the TSX make this statement. Just like most (not all) reviews praise Saab for moving away from the "hatchback" looks that were the realm of the diehard Saab lovers. Hey, I don't write the reviews, other people do - I just read them.

But yes, looks are very subjective and just like some dislike the interior of the 9-3, there are others who like it.

Yeah, too bad there is no "official" position at Saab - it would be a nice source of supplemental income. But then again, I'd have already have that position at Acura because from the end of '00-'03, I loved my leased CL-S and felt it was a great car.

Apparently, the advertising is paying off.
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/press/031002.html

 

yea... at this rate they may catch up with Kia.

 

hey hey hey, don't be bring in Kia into this, man.

9-3 tsx. they're both great.

end of b*tching.

 

Man ... we sure did take a pretty funny joke and turn it in to a Saab/TSX flamage pretty quick

I must say ... the controls on the Saab are looking pretty robotic. But I think this is a "European" thing as it seems to me they are following the BMW interior design in a big way. So if you like one you like the other, but I for one did not think BMW was known for their ergonomically pleasant interiors.

I will say though, I didn't even give Saab a fair shake based on the fact that I grew up during Saab's bad times and they have work to do with myself and a lot of others on their bad image. Kinda like K-mart has to do as well (no so effectively really).

But if you guys wanna flame on, keep it clean

 

Don't give me that 'so typical' stuff. I'm sure anyone could stroll over to saabcentral and quickly find a 'typical' saab owner to stereotype. I'll take the high road and not hypothesize about what that would be... j/k

I do have a quick question for you, our resident saab enthusiast and defender of the Swedish way. What do YOU think about saab moving away from the hatchback look??? I'm sure it is responsible in part for the impressive increase in sales that you quoted, but are they selling out to GM to do it?? I've never owned a hatchback, but I've always been a fan of them. They plan to market a hatch 9-3, right??

 

Sorry, but that's not the same Saab.

http://www.saab.se/

http://www.scania.com/

General Motors only purchased the money-losing Saab automobile division. The corporations producing Saab aircraft and Saab-Scania engines, buses and trucks remain separate Swedish corporations.

The design of the new Saab 9-3 shares it's GM "Epsilon" platform and even it's 2.2 liter "Ecotec" I-4 motor with the new Chevrolet Malibu.

So if the 9-3 interior is like a Chevrolet Malibu, well, it must be because General Motors also produces the Chevrolet Malibu on the same platform?

I've owned two Saabs, but this is hardly the company that built 'em.

 

I am not the only one who has mentioned something about some of the "attitudes" here at A-TSX. Don't get me wrong, even as a now "casual observer" of Acura products, I have come to appreciate/respect some of the guys over here. It works both ways. People talk smack about "shoving the 9-3 up peoples arse" when it is fact their own community that starts 99% of these threads. Hmmmmm....

As for the styling change, I absolutely hated Saab styling (hatchback and all) before the intro of the 93SS. The 93 just swept me away. I knew from the first t-drive that the car would be on my "short-list".

As for selling out GM, why would you say this? The success of the 9-3 is good for Saab, GM, and ultimately us, the consumers.

 

Oh yeah?????

 

yeah.

 

May not be the same division, but the lineage is there. Go to www.saab.com and there's the link for Saab aerospace. Just like Honda which makes everything from motorcycles, generators and lawn mowers (LOL). I won't even touch that one!

 

I am just curious what saabers think about it. Clearly GM wanted them to move away from the old saab designs because they don't sell well here. I wouldn't say that is a mistake, just a move with a clear economic motive (which is all any car company really cares about anyway). I'd say it was a good move, but not a happy one IMO.

In the same respect, I think Toyota designs their cars very intelligently - fairly innocuously. You are unlikely to see one and say either "wow, that thing is sexy" OR "that thing is the ugliest thing I've ever seen." They are styled just enough to not offend you while the company sells the cars on their merits. Car enthusiasts hate that about Toyota, but you can't argue it from a marketing standpoint. How is this related?? I wonder if it is the same for Saab. I've already stated that I think they are very attractive, but they definitely don't stand out quite the same as they used to. This is the influence of GM, and I wonder about the opinion of the Saab faithful about that move. I guess the opinion of the longer-term Saab owners is really what I am curious about, no offense.

 

wroooooooong, 2.0 ecotec. but does it matter, when saab built the turbo? that's what saab's known for; kick ass turbo.

platform sharing is something saab couldn't avoid with GM in 51% control. they had ta give in, but it's not a bad platform. interior is not the same as malibu. you can't assume cars are identically sh*tty because they share platforms. the 9-3 platform is shared with opel, too, btw. anyway, toyota and lexus share platform, acura and honda do, too. nissan/infiniti... now MB/chrysler :shakehd:

oh and uh... go take a look at your headlights or taillights... or even that lil sticker on the windows... it'll read "honda motor co."

 

In a lot of ways, I think the Saab 9-3 and Acura TSX are similar vehicles. Both appeal to the non-conformist (i.e., drivers that don't want the same vehicle as everybody else , those of us who are sick of pulling up to a light and seeing eight other cars just like ours waiting for us). Both offer lots of upscale features, and great performance at the price. And, both use technologically advanced 4-cyl instead of larger displacement six-cyl engines (which, btw, is part of the key to the excellent dynamic characteristics of each vehicle).

I like the styling on both the Saab and TSX. The TSX is cleaner and more classic, bot the Saab is more original. Although I love the way my TSX looks (one of my favorite features), I think it is very derivative. I wish Saab had stayed with the hatchback, but it is hard not to like the exterior styling on that car.

I do prefer the interior in the TSX, but I think the Saab works. And, the lottsa buttons look of the Saab is a bit cluttered, but looks pretty good nonetheless.

The main difference for me is one of reliability. Saab has had impressive results in Consumer Reports surveys over the last few years. However, all that data is based on the 9-5, not the 9-3. The past generation of the 9-3 was one of the least reliable cars on the road. I'm simply not convinced that Saab has all of sudden reversed years of poor QC.

To me, Saab's recent performance in terms of reliability looks like Audi of the late 90's. Audi A4s were recommeneded by CR for a while, because their initial reliability data looked good. But, over a period of three to four years, things began to degrade seriously. I think that will happen for Saab as well. I'm willing to be that the current 9-3 winds up on the list of "used cars to avoid" within the next four or five years. Tigers don't change their stripes, and and a manufacturer is not suddenly going to start producing reliable vehicles after years of producing some of the most repair-intensive cars on the road.

Question to 93Kewl: What is this strange need your feel to bounce from TSX board to TSX board, getting in debates with TSX drivers over your car vs. theirs? Is there really anything to be gained from that? Obviously, everybody here though long and hard about their purchases and came to the conclusion that the TSX was the best vehicle for their needs. They've all decided, after very careful though, that the TSX was superior to other cars in the segment. Do you really think you are going to convince anybody now?

 

Yeah, Lexus is derived from the Toyota platforms (or, at least some of the vehicles are) and Acura is based on Honda platforms.
The difference here is that the Accord, Camry, et al. are excellent cars, at the top of the class in overall performance and reliability. The Malibu is close to the bottom.

 

Mitsubishi builds Saab's turbochargers. I think it's a Mitsubishi TDO4 in the new 9-3.

http://www.mitsubishi.co.jp/

Saab has never built it's own turbochargers.

When they were running, I loved my Saabs.

I do wish you Saab owners much better luck with Saab than I had with mine and the guy in the office next to me is having with his. I really hope they're a LOT better now!

But I'm not willing to bet on it.

 

Darth,

Why the need to question my motives? Give it a rest. For 1000x I will say that I am not the one creating these threads. I like to read about the TSX and when I see one of these type of threads I am compelled to respond, since most are out to trounce the 9-3 when it is as good, if not better for as many peoples needs as the TSX.

And some have even posted who are undecided as to whether to purchase a 9-3 or TSX. Even though this (and other) sites may be a TSX forum, it would only be fair to get an opinion from a 9-3 owner so as to allievate some of the heavily biased opinions (some of them unjustified) of TSX owner. Obviously, this is to be expected since, after all I am in the visitor's ball park.

So, as long as TSX owners continue to post about the 9-3 and other competition, expect to hear from the individuals who either own or have owned those cars.

Nuff said.

 

One relevant issue to keep in mind: Many of Saabs earlier problems were electrical in nature. But, since the GM takeover, they've started using Delco components. Delco tend to have reasonable (if not excellent) QC. GM vehicles have horrible reliability records, but they'd don't suffer electrical problems in particular.

 

Well, they are. Just check consumer reports (9-5 is a recommended pick) and the JD powers information that places Saab as the second highest euro brand behind Porsche (and 13th overall) - not too shabby.

If you need further information, just ask Larchmont - the guru of reliability information. He did a fine job of acquiring a boatload of info on Saab reliability (for the last couple of years) and was surprised to find out that there might have been alot of unjustified assumptions being made.

As for your Saabs, I don't know how old they were, or if you got lemons (which can happen to any brand of car). What I do know, is that the company is improving and that is absolutely a good sign.

 

Can someone say...Audi?

 

The reason I question the motives is because I think it leads to some unproductive turns in threads, on all boards. Let me give you an example: I seriously considered the G35. I thought it was great buy, but I absolutely hated the interior (and I think many others feel the same way). I wondered whether Infiniti might have plans to upgrade, given some of the press comments about the interior. So, I dropped by an Infiniti enthuisast site and simply asked if Nissan had any plans to upgrade the interior. I immediately found myself in a pointless thread debating the quality of the interior with some G35 enthusiasts.

I'm just saying your not going to get anywhere, and basically leads to unproductive discussions that don't make anybody happy.

Of course, I'm not telling you what you have the right to post about. I just think that the least productive threads I see on these enthusiasts sites come about when an driver of another type of vehicle drops by to defend his or her choice. Its not going to work here, because even the open minded among us, have already decided the Saab is an inferior choice to the TSX. If we hadn't reached that conclusion at some point, we'd all be driving Saabs.

And, for the record, I've found the Acura-TSX site to be very balanced, even more so than the other Acura sites.

BTW, these comments not withstanding, I hope you know that I do have a lot of respect for you opinion. I've always found you to be a very balanced and informed poster.

 

Thanks for your kind words and it is good to know that some can appreciate a good "war amongst cars" once in awhile - especially when conducted with balence and proper etiquette.

Oh, btw, if you guys are interested a thread over at the Vortex about the IS vs TSX vs 9-3.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1052245

 

Thanks for the link 93Kewl.

Whatever you choose to drive, I hope you'll continue to bring your informed perspective to this board!

 

Kewl, what you wrote above is entirely YOUR opinion, which most of us don't agree with and many of us are sick of hearing. No one here needs you to be devil's advocate for the 9-3, let the TSX owner's/enthusiasts tell newbies the good and bad. Most enthusiast sites members are brutally honest, even though they love their favorite car. The sites probably wouldn't exist if the car wasn't great to begin with.
What kind of objective opinion can you really offer? If someone says your car has a 5 cylinder and you point out it has a 4, that's cool but when you keep saying it offers more features, "better" (what a joke, Kewl) etc, that's BS. Got any car magazine articles to back up your opinion? Let me tell you why I never even test drove a 9-3 this go around. IT'S BECAUSE MY WIFE, THE NON ENTHUSIAST, DOESN'T TRUST SAAB CARS. Of course, the fact it's UNDERFEATURED, UNDERPOWERED and OVERPRICED, contributed significantly too.
By the way, GM might have made some improvements in quality over there (we shall see, right?) and sales (due to HEAVY discounts and rebates, etc) are OK for the 9-3 but make no mistake, Kewl, there might not be a SAAB in a few years, as the company is not in the best of shape. Or aren't you aware of that? Perhaps you'll be able to take your 9-3 in to the Chevy dealer for service if/when all the SAAB dealers go away.
________________________________
04 TSX CG AT/NAV
03 MDX SSM TOURING/NAV/RES

 

hey bob, you speak as if saab's are the worst cars ever created. they're obviously not, and saab's are just unique. if you don't like it, whatever... there's no need to generalize the whole saab line as horrible based on your experience with a '72 saab.

btw, do you drive the tractor or the tiller to work??

93kewl - disregard what JD Powers (and associates) say. they've probably given out all kinds of awards to every company on earth.

 

tsx-madman,

Grow up. It's guys like you that taint the otherwise "cordial" attitude of others on this site, enthusiast site or otherwise.

And yes, it is my opinion and if you don't like it TFB!

And you know what? If Saab doesn't exist in 5 years (which it most certainly will), then so freakin' what? I enjoy my car and obviously feel it offered more than what the TSX does and could ever offer. Go check the latest sales figures, obviously agressive marketing, a sound product line (an awesome convertible and wagon is coming), and new consumers considering Saab makes for good things - even with incentives.

 

ill keep it short.
imo i think the exterior styling of the saab 9-3 is very nice. Im also sure it has a fairly reliable, strong engine, however the interior styling in my opinion is hideous and far inferior to the tsx. i still have to believe that if you put the two together, more people would flock toward the Tsx.
thats my two cents.
thank you and drive through.

 

This has been beaten to death............................more than once.
Both cars have their advantages and disadvantges, why not just agree to disagree and buy what you like.

 

hahahha... i love the 9-3 but this might be the funniest thing ive ever seen

 

What about the other 36 9-3 vs TSX threads?

 

eh..tsx is a great car, saab 93 is a great car, is300 is a great car, audi a4 is a great car...they're all great cars. My question is, why are people so caught up in this, when the beloved Cubs have made it to the NLCS? Now is the time to celebrate and rejoice this magical time in history...so, grab a beer, sit back, relax, and watch the Cubs kick butt all the way to the World Series. After all, if the Cubs win it all, it could signal the end of the world (not to mention the freezing over of hell)...and then what will the minute differences between these fine cars matter?

And, to keep this somewhat on topic, I'll add my 0.02...it seems like a lot of the arguing on this site about these 2 cars comes from people who have not even taken the time to sit in and drive both cars, and therefore are making unqualified, speculative arguments. I have driven both, closely considered buying both, and from personal, actual experience, I can say that they both drive nicely, look nice, and are great products. I really think that if everyone here took the time to drive both, you'd see that while you still might prefer one more than the other, it's hard not to like both cars for what they are, and there's no reason to hate one just because you like the other. I actually find these two cars more similar and alike than many other cars on the road...And, for those that keep blindly saying that the saab interior is an ergonomic nightmare, please go sit in one, and try to perform a desired function...it's an incredibly well laid out interior, all of the buttons perform a clear function, and it's all very logical (if you get confused by the fact thatt there are 12 radio preset buttons instead of 6, then I guess I can't really help you, but to me having 12 > 6). Don't let the fact that a stupid picture on a web page makes it look like there's a ridiculous amount of buttons...once you actually sit down and use it, you will see that it all goes together like butter...Oh yeah....and Go Cubs !

 

Ya, go Cubs.

Who wants to see a Cubs - Redsox World Series

 

I have to ask the same question. Don't get me wrong.. b/c whether our exchanges are always cordial or not I like seeing the opinions of non-TSX owners here and I like reading your posts 93kewl (though I wasn't thrilled with that 'so typical' remark). Please stick around and continue to tell us while we're wrong We just won't agree.

Actually, I think there is a fair share of Saab lauding on this site (this thread notwithstanding), don't you?

Funny how this all started from a hilarious picture of a calculator :P

 

This is what fdl wanted all along

 

Go Cubs!

It felt great to see the Braves lose to the Cubs.