curls

So I was picking up a drill bit for some work around the house today, and just as I pulled out of my spot, I turned onto the main parking lot thru-way, and not more than 15' from there (at the next aisle), a lady in a 2001 Odyssey SMASHED into my passenger front 1/4 panel.

Here's the damage:










Currently it's at the tow yard since no body shops are open on the weekend. I have to decide by Monday where I want this fixed.

From first glance, I'd need these parts at minimum:
- Fender
- Bumper
- likely a new door panel (it's all buckled and won't open)
- Wheel
- Tire (has a gash in the sidewall that is about 5-8mm deep, not leaking air yet though)
- Upper control arm
- Ball joint
- other unknown suspension parts
- PAINT (I really hope they can repaint the hood as well... there's some spots I'd like to see erased!)
- misc. plastic panels, clips, etc.

Any ideas as to a rough estimate? I'm thinking about $3000-$5000. And to think I JUST signed on with a new insurer on May 1st... LOL.

I'm 95% sure the other lady is at fault here even though it was a parking lot collision - the officer said she didn't look both ways before proceeding into the thru-way, etc.

The main concern I have is with the suspension -- I KNOW my springs aren't covered. I looked as best I could into the non-existant wheel gap and noticed first off that the upper ball joint was likely sheared right off (hence the -20* camber, LOL!), not to mention other stuff I didn't see. I popped the hood and the strut tower bolts seem fine, so I don't THINK the spring/shock assembly is damaged... but if it is, I will not likely get my springs covered.

Luckily I and the other driver are both OK although it really hurts to see my car like that. Not to mention my parents are in town for 3 days only and now I have to spend a few more hours getting a rental, etc... instead of spending time with them on their mini-vacation.

Ugh.

Oh, here's my mad paint skillz diagram of the incident:

(My "P" is my parking spot... so I only could travel MAYBE 50' before I was hit. Her path in red, mine in black. Green boxes are curbed medians)



I was in the main thru-way, she was entering the main thru-way from a lane of parking spaces. Even the officer said to her "Why did you expect him to stop -- he's in the main thru-way and you are entering it from a smaller lane... you should be looking for oncoming cars!".

xenonhid

Looks like you definitely had the right of way.

ThirdLane

You should be covered by her insurance even though it was a parking lot incident. Those can be iffy. But if the LEO said and stated that it was her fault, you should be good. Sorry man

curls

OK, I found the fault determination rules for Ontario insurance here: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/reg...s_900668_e.htm. (Bookmark this!)

Here is the relevant section (Parking lots):

Rules for Automobiles in Parking Lots

16. (1) This section applies with respect to incidents in parking lots. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (1).

(2) The degree of fault of a driver involved in an incident on a thoroughfare shall be determined in accordance with this Regulation as if the thoroughfare were a road. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (2).

(3) If automobile “A” is leaving a feeder lane and fails to yield the right of way to automobile “B” on a thoroughfare, the driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (3).

(4) If automobile “A” is leaving a parking space and fails to yield the right of way to automobile “B” on a feeder lane or a thoroughfare, the driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4).

(5) In this section,

“feeder lane” means a road in a parking lot other than a thoroughfare;

“thoroughfare” means a main road for passage into, through or out of a parking lot. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (5).



Considering section (2)...
and then considering section (3), I am Automobile B, the woman in the van is Automobile A. Hence, I should be 0% at fault, she will be 100% at fault. Let's hope the insurance company sees it this way. Now I REALLY want to see a copy of the accident report the officer filed.

jumpmanbsktbll

dam soccer moms

Demos

Looks like you had the right of way and according to section 3 you are 100% not at fault.. and atleast the lip kit was saved.. that would have been the biggest loss.

as for the springs.. and any aftermarket stuff.. they are covered to a certain extent..just make sure the shop you go to shows the adjuster all the stuff in side as well.. you might just get the price for the OEM spring.. shit, some OEM stuff is more expensive than aftermarket stuff.. according to those insurance calculators anyway...and if you have a good shop tell them to discount that off your bill and use it to repurchase the spring..

They should have special supplemental insurance for aftermarket stuff and modded cars.. who wants to start the petition???

curls

The front lip was partially damaged while the tow truck hack was doing his thing though... he had the flatbed about 1' off of the ground and was backing up the truck as close as possible... well 'close' was 'touching' and I saw the entire lip and bumper flex and I heard a mild 'pop' (probably a clip busting loose). There was a minor scuff on it from the flatbed ridge. Also, while he was pulling the car w/ the tow hooks up the ramp, the car was low enough that the chains were pinned between the flatbed bed, and the lip kit... probably made some indentations that I couldn't see once the car was on the bed. Damn tow hacks.

PACman

She's at fault. Unfortunately, there are drivers that don't know when it's proper to yield.
Give it some time and you'll have your baby back.

MMsTSX

my rough estimate is $3200.

you'll have to replace at least all that you listed, plus more probably.

DO NOT go to a body shop only for this!!

the car should go to a top quality garage, then to a body shop after.
you need major suspension work and such done, body shops don't do that.

I agree she's at fault, no question at all.
pick the most expensive garage to do the repairs...
hell, actually have the dealer do the repairs on the mechanical stuff.

Audioserf

Agree - have the dealer take care of it. You're not paying for it, and they'll make sure it's done perfectly.

curls

The place I'm leaning towards is Hunt Club Collision here in Ottawa. They're affiliated with a large Honda dealership and have an A1 body shop facility. I've yet to hear a single bad review of them. Probably the best of both worlds (Honda-affiliated = dealer quality mechanical repairs, plus top notch body/paint facility = oem-quality finish + quality).

I'll talk with my insurance broker and ask him what he'd recommend - he's a true 'car guy' as well so I trust his judgement on this.

curls

I just got off the phone with the adjuster and it sounds like the other party is 100% at fault and my deductible will be waived (unless other party doesn't have valid insurance, then I just pay deductible).

The wheels are in motion and they're contacting the repair place I selected (Hunt Club Collision) as well as the rental agency to arrange everything. Woo!

Tsx536

See if you can get an after market bumper or something as a replacement. The OEM parts are usually expensive, so it may be a good time to upgrade to something after market.

davidspalding

Hell, someone started running a red light this morning as I was already turning left from the opposite side. I honked at him and he shot me a "WTF" look. "Well, you can't run a red light right into my car, ****head."

Yeah, I can imagine this hurts. I was sooooo pissed when I scraped someone in my own parking lot. The paint on the hood ought to be done since a body shop will have to "blend" the paint job from the damage quarter to adjacent areas. If they have to paint the door/new door panel, the adjacent door and over-head piece (it's a strip that goes from rear quarter to front quarter) have to be blended. Pretty involved, even for the little bumper cover scrape I got.

I would hope the other driver's insurance pays to restore your car to the pre-accident condition, not "stock." If there was an investigating officer who determined you were not at fault and the ins. companies accept that report, you're covered. Of course, her insurance company may dicker around to reduce their costs, and I hope your company's adjuster fights to get the car fully repaired. They may not cover "upgrades" or non-equivalent replacements, though. YMMV.

My worry ... would be if the car's resale value is now effected based on the extent of damage on the underpinnings and suspension. Got my fingers crossed fer ya, eh.

GTSX-05

iTrader: (1)

Ouch, pwp in distress, call a medic.

Vietnastee

iTrader: (8)

Sorry to see that. Best of luck to you and hope the repairs are good.

Was the lady who hit you asian?

curls

I'll just say she was probably late for panflute or sitar practice.

curls

To TSX536: I'm really not into any of the aftermarket bumpers so no... but I thought about it.

davidspalding: We have no-fault insurance, so once fault is determined (0, 50, or 100%), costs are taken care of. Sounds 99.99% like I'll be just fine and not a penny out of my pocket.

I did talk with the collision centre a few times (the estimator and the assistant manager) and both times said to get a good blend on white pearl paints, they rarely blend "up"... just to the side or down, since the panel lines between a hood and a fender, for example, tend to make a very good area to stop blending anyhow. I trust this place since many friends w/ Acuras have gone there with great results. I've yet to hear a true negative review about them.

davidspalding

Hrm ... maybe the body shop that did mine went overboard, then.[1] Interesting tidbit of info.

[1] I scraped the side of the rear bumper cover, and scraped down to the metal right on the seam of the rear quarter panel, a straight line along the edge, about 4". The service mgr said, "we can just touch up the paint, but it'll show. If you want it so you can't tell, we have to repaint and blend...." Whatever, either repair was going over my deductible, so I had them do fancy, in case I want to resell/trade-in.

Waxing the car last week, I found where the previous owner had had a small booboo on the front bumper ... the paint has very slight streaks. Whatever, that part gets so much micro-meteoroid damage that I figure in about 10 years it's due for a replacement anyway.

curls

I'm really hoping they replace the front bumper, since the one on there now is very pitted from "micro-meteroid" damage (as you call it!). The front lip has got to be somewhat damaged/scraped from the tow guys' chains and from when he backed the flatbed edge into the lip. I didn't see up close, but I can't see that having not caused some damage.

I'm awaiting the call from the bodyshop this morning, and a faxed estimate/report of findings. I'll keep y'all updated.

Newplay1

Glad your ok but yeah.. that sucks~

Pictures of the soccer moms Honda?

curls

I snapped one pic of her bumper area but didn't host it online. Basically she'll need a new front bumper and that's about it. Maybe a new rebar beam if the brackets bent, but that's doubtful.

She already had hit something red (hence the paint transfer to my car from her grey van and blue license palte lettering). Odds are she'll never learn how to drive it seems.

davidspalding

I'd be concerned about the lip damage incurred by the towing. If the investigating officer made specific notations of damage to your car, his report might not detail that damage. So the other driver's ins. company could, I'm guessing her, could claim that was pre-existing damage and theyre not liable. I'd talk to your own company's adjuster about it in detail. It could be they'd have to recover from the towing company,... though I wouldn't be surprised if the towing operator & co. are protected against "incidental damage" to "aftermarket parts" of your car. Crossing fingers fer ya on that one, too.

curls

That lip is OEM, not aftermarket.

I mentioned to my adjuster about the chains possibly damaging the lip, but forgot to mention the edge of the flatbed probably causing some scuffing at least, dents/cracks at most. Will mention that to her once I hear from the body shop (IE: If the body shop says they're replacing the lip, then great, and if not, then I'll mention it further).

moda_way

Another thread of yours that makes me nervous. Glad to see it is mainly cosmetic thus far. Hopefully she didn't hurt that 06 short block

davidspalding

Fixing my mispelling.

Curls, sorry, I wasn't clear maybe. Irregardless of whether the lips is OEM or aftermarket.... is if the body shop estimate itemizes the lip and area under/behind it, and the police report does NOT note that there was lip damage from the accident (maybe it happened after he inspected both vehicles and made his notes), could be (i.e. big assumption on my part) that her insurance company could say, "we're not liable for repairing/replacing the lip, since this damage was not caused by the collision with our client's vehicle," in which case keeping mum about it doesn't help your company fight for a total repair compensation. IANAL (or ins. investigator/adjuster), and YMMV, but in your shoes I'd be proactive about stating that there this other damage incurred by the wrecker as a consequence of the accident caused by the other driver, and I would expect it to be fixed just as I expect the other damage to be fixed, no if's and's or but's. That is, this lip wouldn't have been damaged if the other driver had granted right of way and let you drive on unscathed.

Then again (more wild assumptions on my part), it could end up the wrecking servcie is liable for the lip repair, in which your insurance can (or should IMHO) go after them on your behalf. I wouldn't like having to chase after the wrecking service to get the front lip repair paid for.

I'm just another driver ... your insurance company rep is the person I'd take this up with.

davidspalding

Oh, wait, you already said you mentioned it to your adjuster. Sorry. Nevermind.

curls

I just called the guy assigned to my car at Hunt Club Collision and he has explained most of his findings to me.

Bottom line: All new suspension on the front pass. side. Even the strut was bent. Holy cow! I guess they can still reuse the Tein spring though - didn't think to ask... oops.

Remanufactured rim (OEM part, stripped and repainted, guarantees it looks perfect). New tire (maybe shaved to bring tread to the depth of the others?).

As far as suspension goes, upper and lower control arm, spindle, knuckle, tie rod (I think), strut/shock, etc... all OEM or aftermarket where available.

Should I be asking if true aftermarket shocks are an option here? IE: If the replacement shock they're going to put in is say $200, maybe I'd kick in the extra money for some Koni Yellow's? What other 'free upgrades' should I look at right now?

They're also replacing the fender w/ aftermarket (test fit before paint to ensure 100% alignment and fit) as specified by the age of the car.

Door, bumper, and front lip/skirt will be repaired, and the plastic tab for the bumper can be repaired easily. They said the bumper especially is going to be a simple, invisible fix, and will look better than an aftermarket OE-style bumper since the OEM one fits perfectly, the OE-replacement ones don't always...

All repairs and paint are guaranteed for as long as I own the car, both through the collision repair shop, and through my insurance company... so that's good.

Oh, and the running total thus far: $6000. They still have to inspect a few pieces but he thinks it's going to be between $6K and $7K + taxes. Wow!

Miamicarfan

curls:

As a fellow Premium White Pearl owner, I share your pain.

TL929

It could be worse. The damage doesn't look to severe and looks easy to fix.

I hate stupid drivers who do not take other "people" on the road into consideration.

I hope you get your ride fixed quickly.

davidspalding

I'm not surprised. Was the other driver on a cell phone while driving? A lot of states are now collecting that data on accident investigations.

curls

OK, just got off the phone with the body shop, and I have the estimate faxed to me. Grand total: $6300.

I am being charged a 50% "betterment" charge on the replacement tire, since the tire that was damaged had only 30% tread remaining (the body shop said 50% tread remaining so my portion is 50% not 70%). The cost of the tire is $322.00 + tax. I'm definitely looking at getting a new SET of 4 tires since I can get Falken 452's for about $160/corner locally, or maybe even the General Exclaim UHP's for less than that. I'll have to talk with the insurance about this though.

Also, for the replacement shock, they are only able to find an OEM one ($266.00), and since I can get a set of 4 Tokicko Blue's for $400 for the set, I might go that route... if possible. I would give the bodyshop the one they need for the repair, and then I'd put the other 3 on myself on the next available weekend. Since I'm lowered on Tein H-Tech's, the Blue's, being OE-replacement, should work just fine. (??).

Any opinions?

curls

OK I got word from the adjuster that they are waiving my 50% betterment fee, so they'll be covering the $322 for the new tire. That's good.

Also, they said I can supply my own parts and they'll pay me out the amount quoted on the estimate ($322 for tire, $266 for shock, plus taxes). So now, do I go with the Tokico's AND the tires, for about $500 out of my pocket?

I'm leaning towards yes...

curls

So my tires (General Exclaim UHP) came in today and I dropped one off at the collision centre. They actually have all of the suspension and mechanical work done, and the car is aligned just fine. The door panel is repaired and awaiting paint. Bumper and fender were off as they're still fixing the inner fender (welding + re-applying the rock guard in the wheel well).

It's coming along nicely and he says they're ahead of schedule since the disassembly didn't reveal any more damage, and, the frame was fine. (Thank goodness!).

I'll have another verbal update mid next week.

(Oh, and yes, I did go with the Tokico blue's and the one affected corner is already installed - the other 3 corners I'll do myself when I get her back).

afici0nad0

sounds good.

curls

Well, she's back!

I picked up the car at 1pm today after dropping off the god-awful Impala rental car (what a PIG on gas!). The car was lookin' pretty good! Only a few minor annoyances:

1. Replacement fender was non-OEM (as stipulated by insurance, which sucks). It doesn't line up 100% and because of this, the shop spent almost 4 hours today working with it to get it to be the least offensive. The result is that the gap between hood and fender is larger than I'd like, and larger than the other non-impacted side, but is still not too bad.

2. Replacement fender doesn't line up 100% with the door, but the only time you'd ever tell was if you were right at eye level with it -- the fender sticks out about 1 oe 2mm further than the door panel, so it's not flush. The panel gap is fine here though.

3. Very, very slight orange peel. It's actually about the same as the factory finish, which I guess isn't too bad. No, it's not as smooth as glass, but the orange peel is extremely minor. I expected perfection but only got "damn close to perfection". Probably had my expectations set above OEM-standards, so that's my fault.


I drove the car straight from the body shop to my buddy at The Tire Shop and had the other 3 General Exclaim UHP's installed for a great price. Now the car feels WAY more planted and stable than before (especially compared to having 3x 50% worn tires and 1x new tire on the front... that was akward!). The car tramlines slightly on ruts, but the alignment is 100% perfect from what I can tell (flat, smooth roads = no hands required on the wheel )

So now I have to wait 60 days to wax the newly painted areas... boooo. But the flip side is that they touched up the hood pretty nicely (rusting stone chips are now gone), and totally repaired the bumper and front lip to OEM condition even though only 1/2 of the damages/rock chips were accident-related.

I cant' wait to get the other 3 Koni blues on the other 3 corners this weekend -- the car should handle really nicely after that.

afici0nad0

sweet.

so they touched up your hood huh? i hate you...

curls

OK, here are the pics I snapped. The pass. side was the side with the new fender. The front bumper (aside from the side skirt) is also new (non-OEM), after reviewing the invoice.

What do you think of the gaps and overall result?

I did notice a very small defect on the new fender as well -- about 2-3mm long, raised somewhat jagged/sharp thing, under the paint. Looks like the paint got a small contaminant under it, or, cracked. I think it's a contaminant and not a bubble by looking at it though. Sorry I couldn't get a pic of it -- too small to see w/o filtering, etc... even on super-macro mode on the camera, LOL!

kaliraver69

It looks good, definitely better than without the hit.

curls

I'm wondering if they can re-align the hood slightly to even out the gap... maybe that'll solve my problems, or at least the majority of them.

I agree it looks better than before, but with the exception of the hood gap on the passenger side - that will probably stick w/ me forever - I'm picky that way.

EDIT: Damn, just noticed I already have bug splatter... LOL! Boooo to bugs!