sauceman

So I was going to start a thread about Friday Night Races take 3, but before I even had the time to race once, it started raining. I knew it was only for a few minutes so I waited it out. Sure enough, after about 15-20 minutes, it was over. So half a dozen cars including myself started rolling to try and dry the track quicker.

I practiced wet lauches at the same time, though with my tires pretty worn out, I was at a loss for grip even in 3rd with the VSA on.

Then it started getting better. Even if the launches were still very delicate, I was doing about 88-90mph at the end of the ¼.

So then it happenned, just as I was about to cross the line, I was at the top of third, about to shift in 4th when (I believe) I hit the cutoff just as I was shifting, and the way it moved, I think I ended up putting it in 2nd instead of 4th. It went waaaay up, I remember seeing it pass 8000 before I stepped on the clutch again. I must have shot it at least at 8500rpm.

The stomach ache, eyes closed, the screeching echo in my head, time ticking... Then I rechecked, and the engine was idling as smoothly as ever, back at 600rpm.

So I went back to the pitlane, lifted the hood, and except for some valve ticking, everything seemed fine. The drive back home was as smooth as always, no loss of power, nothing.

It just seems too good to be true. Do any of you folks have any suggestion about someting I should do? Kurt Bradley especially, I'd like to hear your take on this.

provench

Wow man ... I have no idea, but I am sure some folks on here will have ideas on what to check out.

Hope things are ok bro

xizor

I've read people w/ the same story for other cars, you can survive one ok

iamhomin

So you were redlining your 3rd then shifted down to 2nd? I'm surprised your engine didn't blow.
Very, very fortunate.

biker

I guess Honda builds in a lot of safety factor in there.

tony4311

you luck son of a bitch :P

gilboman

do a compression test to make sure.

TSXEuphoria

Have you guys seen Japanese video magazine called Best Motoring? In that videos they race in Tsukuba race track with from Civic Sir to Ferrari F-50. They just shift down at the corner, many times pass redline in any cars. If shifting down and hitting above the redline is critical to engine, there should be many engine failures, but almost none of them had any, except for one blown clutch.
If the engine gets blown that easily without any boost, Japanese auto makers should loose their good reputations.
BTW, I let the engine pass the redline almost everyday, especially when I enter on-ramp.

sauceman

Good idea Gilbo.

xizor

I would never let the BEst Motoring guys drive my car, they have no respect for someone else's stuff at all!

BTW, there is a huge difference between accelerating past redline and downshifting into redline. Accelerating you can't hurt the car as the fuel cutoff will stop you, when you downshift though, there's no cutoff and you can spike way past 7400.

biker

You're not going to see that too many times here (someone praising gilbo)

gilboman

trout25red

A few years ago I did the same thing on accident when I first got my 98 Prelude. I thought i really screwed myself that time, but I noticed that everything was just fine after my heart stopped pounding.

calgary_tsx

i did this by mistake on my 1.7el a few years ago, it was fine. however i clutched back right after i let it out, so it was spinning at probably close to 9K but for less than a second, I think your TSX s/b ok.

TSXEuphoria

Now I got it. Thanks for your info. But I was wondering shouldn't be there mechanical block throwing down to 2nd gear if rpm would hit pass redline?

xizor

seems like a good idea. If you've noticed how hard it is to downshift into 1st, it has something like that to keep you from tearing up the gear.

kendroz

The same did happen to me and that valve ticking will increase, believe me those are valves that were hurt. On my case the exhaust valves of piston one and three were damaged. Go and recheck compression please before is too late.

Ken

sauceman

I will get it checked for sure, but at the same time, keep in mind that the valve ticking was already present, and I can't really say if it has worstened or not, actually, I'd say it hasn't, because I was already planning with the service manager at Acura that with my next maintenance, the 96,000km one, I was going to have them readjust the valve play because of the ticking I was hearing, and the service manager had told me they would do it, but not to worry about it since it was usual wear and usual maintenance. However, this was before the mis-shift, and there may have been damage that could pass unnoticed because of the already present valve ticking.

I've driven about a 100 miles today, and still the same smoothness, as well as good power along with it.

I'm off tomorrow on a business trip for the week in Northern Quebec, so if ever I am to have problems with the engine I'll know soon enough but there's nothing I can do about it anyway, if it has to happen, it's going to happen. I'll then try and deal with it and get it covered under the still valid powertrain warranty.

heyitsme

Dreaming, he got lucky.

gfxdave99

Dude.. you SO got lucky..

The same thing happened to my friend and he blew up his engine and litearly had a dent in his hood...

Be more careful

JeffTSX

I'm taking a guess that your car isn't boosted and your car is still relativtly new. Then your engines fine if it idles smooth like you said. Eventhough now the K series have very tight tolorences compared to the B series, I'm sure it can still take some beating. Just try not to do it again!!!

P.S. Do a search on the ClubRsx forum. You might be scared to find out how many people bent their valves or even benting cranks on the K20As

gilboman

he's got 96,000kms on his already, so its probably not categorized as "new"

Stokeless_TSX

k24's are just stronger then the k20

rb1

Hmmm.. I wonder if mechanical over-rev (to a given RPM) is less stressful overall than an over-rev under engine power, since in the former case the pistons and valve train are just being dragged along by the vehicle momentum via the drive-train. (Any engineers hanging out here?) Did you hit the gas while pulling the clutch out or did you immediately realize your mistake and reclutch?

As long as the rods held, it seems like the main question was how much valve float occurred. As others have recommended, a compression test would be a good (and relatively inexpensive) first step...

Dan Martin

Hitting the rev-limiter is way less damaging than a mis-shift. Actually assuming that you haven't removed the rev-limiter it's practically impossible to over-rev an engine without mis-shifting.

robert_tsxgeek

Gosh...you guys really stressing your TSX like it's a frigging rental car.

>>2004 Acura TSX 6MT Silver/Ebony #134 85,000Km

How the heck did you manage to put that much milage on a 2004 car ???

>>BTW, I let the engine pass the redline almost everyday, especially when I enter on-ramp.

I feel sorry for whoever would be buying that car after you are done driving the crap out of it.
:shit:

gfxdave99

Thats what the rev limiter is for right? :sqnteek:

rb1

Well, this is partly why I specified "to a given RPM", since there is absolutely no protection from a mechanical over-rev.

To rephrase, say I have replaced the ECU to remove the rev-limiter. (Tuning folks do this all the time). Which is worse (and why)?

(1) I rev the engine to 8000 RPM under engine power?

(2) I mis-shift and the engine goes to 8000 RPM before I can get the clutch back in.

(I really don't know the answer)

Dan Martin

Thanks for clarifying. I would guess they're probably the same. The loads should be balanced in both cases. I know that clutch in and throttled up to 8000rpm is a because the engine is unloaded that's why they put a rev limit of 5500 if you try to rev at a stoplight and have the clutch depressed.

JeffTSX

Wow. You've must have builded a lot of K series engines then eh?

I agree. You can't over rev unless you're removed the fuel cut and raised to RPM. And like I said before. Since your car still idles and runs smooth. Don't worry about it!! :P Honda engines can and will withstand beating.

rb1

Hmmm. I thought about this some more and it seems that the missed shift mechanical overrev might involve a less balanced load than an overrev under power.

It takes a comparatively long time to overrev just by stepping on the gas (while in gear), since the power generated by the engine is somewhat balanced by the inertia of the vehicle (plus drive-train friction and wind resistance, to be sure).

If you miss a shift and engage the clutch, the engine rev's up almost as fast (faster?) as it does if you're in neutral at a light and floor it. The inertia of the car in motion "drags" the engine to the high RPM, with nothing but engine compression and drive-train friction to offset it.

Just pseudo-informed speculation on my part...

sauceman

I was on the gas clutch in, clutch out, but I reclutched in a fraction of a second. Obviously, it was on the rev-limiter, just about 1000rpm higher than it should have been.

I just came back from my trip in Northern Quebec, with about 4000km travelled, and absolutely no sign of anything wrong. Actually, I bested my fuel economy. (see sig)

So now I am at 92,000km, and at my 96,000km maintenance I'll have it looked after.

ilitig8

No difference. The most likely problem with over revs (in this case the dreaded "money shift") is valve float. Valve float is when the valve springs are not strong enough to pull the valve shut quickly enough and it causes the valves to touch the pistons, under load or not it is the same.

I would get the compression checked ASAP, but that said normally engines with bent valves don't run long, but a minor bend might go unnoticed for a while constantly doing damage to the sleeves etc.

I know the instant pain of a money shift, my most recent adventure was when I was fighting off a 996 at Road Atlanta earlier this year going into a turn at 6000 RPM, I started my braking and while watching my rear view I missed my down shift dumped it into 1st and after a later software dump found out my S54 hit 9563 prm, 1400 over red line (thank God I got back in the clutch QUICK)! At the time I was sure I was out a $18k engine, but after 5,000 more miles it still runs like a top. I did a compression test BEFORE leaving the track!!!

Money shifts suck but you sound like you were lucky!

Vandy

sauceman

Well, for those who care about knowing, I got my compression test done today, and the numbers are great: 160-160-165-160. I now have 98,100km on my TSX.

So I guess I got either very lucky, or the TSX engine is built bulletproof, or both.

On another note, following the suggestions of a member here, I asked my service manager to also perform a "TKO" otherwise known as an intake manifold cleaning. This because of the rather high amount of oil that can get gulped in because of the PCV.

fdl

Hey sauceman, you said you say the tach read 8500? Well thats not bad at all. Are you sure it wasnt higher?

jlukja

98,100, HOLY COW thats like over 60,000 mi. You are like the advanced scout. You see what we will encounter but much earlier. Just curious how you maintain your TSX (service intervals, any additional service beyond mfrg. rec.) and what kind of oil do you use.

sauceman

If it had been on a lesser stroked engine I wouldn't have woried much, but I was a little scared of the piston speeds, and what it could do to a rod (although no test will really yield anything concerning this), or even valve float.

I'm sort of reassured, although I had already gone back to the tracks for some fun last friday ( http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12631 ).

jlukja, yeah, the dealer proclaimed me their official pionneer, lol. I follow the strict service schedule (every 8000km / 5000miles). All maintenance done at the dealership, following Acura suggested maintenance list. I'll try and do this until I reach my goal mileage (500,000km). I don't have any specific requirements as far as oil is concerned, my guess is they put in Honda-approved oil. Only things I've added so far was the TKO and compression test. I'll probably keep doing this every 100,000km as well.

ks112

yo sauceman are you still on your original clutch?

sauceman

Yes.

ks112

damn. so much for honda clutches being weak. You got close to 100k and you take your car to the track and is still on the original clutch. This says two things, either your a really really good driver or people whom replace clutches at 20k are really really bad drivers.