Hooligan

Hi everyone,

I guess I'm a newb here although I've lurked for the past week or so reading articles and searching the archives. Great and very active community!

I currently have a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD. It's my 3rd SUV and I love it. I like the high stance, cargo space, and I occasionally even use the 4WD-ability in more than just snow. However, for various reasons I am looking to trade it sometime between now and early Fall. I was all set to order a 2005 Grand Cherokee with the Hemi V8, but it looks like that will only be available on the top-of-the-line Limited model, which is really more than I'm going to be able to afford right now. So... I've decided to consider other options. I drove the S40 today- nice car, not my style. I drove a TSX last week- most impressed. I drove an IS300, but I am nervous about the RWD and I am just not quite ready to own a Lexus... too ostentatious for me right now. But the TSX was really a fun drive- I would be looking at the base 6-speed

How many of you switched from SUVs to TSXs? What aspects of the SUV do you miss the most?

Also, I tried searching for answers to the two following questions, but I couldn't find much... pardon my newbieness as I'm sure they get asked all the time!

1) Can you run regular unleaded in the TSX?
2) When will the '05s first hit dealership lots? I can't seem to come up with any changes for the '05 model year, but I will probably go with one since discounts on the '04s aren't all that big. If I go for an Acura, I'll lease it.

Finally, I know this is a lot for one post, but... has anyone done a TWO YEAR lease on a TSX? I saw that Saab was advertising 269/mo with 12k/yr and 2995 down for 24 months on a 30k MSRP 9-3. Is Acura offering anything even close? I just saw the ad this morning but I was in the Acura dealership last week. Didn't see anything on Acura.com.

THANKS!!
Andrew

xizor

You can, but the engine will adjust itself to lower performance to reduce knocking. Premium is only an extra $2.80 a tank, that's not terrible. For an extra $100/yr you could do 35 fillups of premium, possibly good enough for a year's worth of gas.

briny319

You can use regular for a short time but the manual and gas cap specifically say "PREMIUM FUEL ONLY". According to my acura dealer and past acura release dates I would expect the 05 to be on the lot in late oct.

nct1596

Since you're driving a 4X4 Jeep now, I bet you can put the premium gas in the TSX and still spend less on gas. Of course that depends on how you drive the TSX versus how you drive the Jeep. Also depends on city/highway driving and transmission preference.

The literature I have from Acura say that regular unleaded can be used but 'with reduced performance.' But, as xizor said, it's not really THAT much more to fill up with the premium stuff. Around here, premium gas is 93 octane - more than the recommended octane rating of 91. The mid-grade stuff is 89. I think premium gas octane levels vary with location in US.

Not sure about the 05 rollout, but guessing Sept/Oct time, and no info on the leasing. Tried the leasing idea once, got way over my head in mileage - ended up regretting the decision.

Hooligan

Thanks for the responses.

The gas thing isn't a BIG deal, but if I can get away with regular or midgrade- especially on a lease- I will use it. I average about 16-17 in mixed driving with the Jeep, but it takes regular and is still plenty powerful (V8). I'd expect 22-24 in mixed driving with the TSX, so with premium yeah it might work out to about equal.

I'm definitely interested to hear about leasing, though- I have not leased before and I think that for someone like me it's the best option.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

The guys are right about gas. As for the lease, if you're putting $3000 down on a lease, you might as well be prepared to buy it. That's an awful lot of money to throw in upfront. If you wanted to put that much money down on a TSX, you could probably get just as good a monthly payment if not better.

SaraWI

First off, let me just say, since no one else has mentioned it yet, that an Acura (or even Audi or Lexus) is a far, far, far better automobile for the money than anything made by Jeep. (Sorry, it's an Acura forum and its expected to be said!!!) All you have to do is read Car and Driver, Consumer Reports or the like to see that in proof. Plunking down tens of thousands of dollars on something is a big decision and I personally like to know that I'm investing in something that is worth my hard earned money. That being said, what kind of gas you're putting in should be the least of your worries. Switching from an SUV to a sports sedan is huge, but there are definite benefits. Better handling, better mileage, "sporty" look. Disadvantages to an sedan are obvious-the SUV is 4x4 and also would have better cargo space. These pros & cons and the whole point of Acura/Honda brand being a superior manufacturer are the real issues that you need to consider...

Jason

Is this a word?

Jason

Seriously though, welcome to the forum Andrew. We're only not nice to noobs when they say something stupid. You're fine.

I'd like to answer your questions but I'm afraid I can't be much help. I've never owned an SUV so I don't know what they're like. All I can say is that when I borrowed a friend's for a day, I was dying to get back in my TSX.

As mentioned, you can run reg. gas in the TSX. I don't think it makes much difference but I stick with premium.

I'd say Sept./Oct. 2004 is a good guess as to when the new models are out.

Also, I've never leased a car so I have no idea what's up with that. The mileage would kill me.

So to sum up, I have no insight other than to say welcome.

bob shiftright

I got this off the Acura website ....

Your Results

Your Estimated Monthly Payment is shown below.

LEASE

2004 TSX
24 Months Term
15,000 Annual Mileage

$606.18

*Lease Summary: Required Refundable Security Deposit $625.00, 1st Monthly Payment $606.18, Capitalized Cost Reduction $0.00 to equal an estimate total of $1,231.18 due at lease signing

I don't know if this is good, bad or indifferent, but it's what the Acura website's lease calculator says.

Otherwise, I can't be helpful. I pay cash for my cars, run snow tires in the winter, use 94 octane gasoline and I've never owned an SUV.

txathlete

A lease is only good if you don't plan on keeping the car. But it is never a great deal to lease then buy at the end of the lease because you would pay much much more in the long run that if you bought the car out right. With a lease, you are paying on the depreciation of the car over the next 48 months.

Example: Base Acura 2004 TL non navi lease: 48 months at $389/month with 10% down & TT&L (ex. 6.25%). Residual is 51%. MSRP: $33,195 (cap cost). After 48 months you would have paid: 48 months X $389 +($3319.50 + 1016.60 +160) = $23,168.10. $3319.50 is 10% of the MSRP, $1016.60 is the sales tax, and $160 is the title and license. Sales tax is 6.25% of 49% of MSRP (or (49% X MSRP) X 6.25%).

This is what you would have paid after 48 months and if you didn't buy the car at the end of the lease, you just spent $23, 168.10 and have nothing...no equity. Now, if you decided to buy at the end of your lease, you would still owe 51% of the MSRP or $16,929.45. So add the amount you leased ($23,168.10) to the residual ($16,929.45) and your total for the car (not including the interest rate if you had to finance the car at the end of the lease), your total cost of leasing and buying the car is $40,097.55. THAT'S $6,902.55 more than if you bought the car at MSRP!!!! Plus you need to figure out what depreciation percentage or the money factor the dealership is using to depreciate your lease vehicle. If they give you a money factor of 0.003957, just multiply it by 2400 (always multiply by 2400) and you will get the interest rate they are depreciating your lease vehicle (in this case, 0.003957 X 2400 = 9.50%).

Net cap cost is your negotiated (final) price of the vehicle minus trade-in, rebates, or down payments.

residual = (residual percentage X MSRP or Base MSRP before options)
depreciation fee = (net cap cost - residual)
finance fee = (net cap cost + residual) X money factor
monthly payment = (depreciation fee + finance fee)
monthly finance fee = (lease charge/term of lease)

Using these calculations you can figure out if leasing is for you. I hope this helps.

upstream

I can't tell you specifically about the TSX as I am still looking and only have the experience of 1 test drive. However, maybe I an speak to SUV vs. a Driver's Car type like the TSX. I grew up around SUV's (a series of Jeeps in fact) and European sedans (Mainly SAABs but a couple German cars too). So for about 10 years I was going back and forth between them back to back. They both have there place. Where we lived we did frequently end up off road and had a ~ 5000ish pound boat to pull. Also could be nice for ski trips in the winter. However, when it came to actually driving hands down to the sports sedans in most situations. In some situations the high seating position and visibilty is undoubtedly nice. Since you specifically mention it you may miss it when in heavy traffic with lots of Trucks and SUVs. However, especially when the road opens up, the feeling of connection you get between the car and the road in a good road car simply can't be beat. It is also so much less tedious to drive on the hyway too. Following hyway driving giving back the Jeep for a car that actually handled worth squat was always a joy. Not sure that really helps. Personal driving conditions and taste probably play a big role too.

iamhomin

Funny you asked, because the loaner I'm currently driving is the Chevy Envoy (Yes, I'm under 24 -_-). Switching from a compact sedan to a suv is quite drastic. The room is much wider (obviously), it's much more of a gas guzzler (obviously), and I don't have to pay attention to any pot holes (which I enjoy), but that's not the answer you're looking for so I'll stop

tony4311

btw the ecu will only adapt to safe mode AFTER it picks up any knocking so if the lower grade causing knocking you will damage the engine before the ecu can adjust. Enough of that over time will be bad. A few people have posted about using lower grade without problems. If you're not in a hot weather climat (which I see your not) there probably won't be a problem. I on the other hand am not willing to try and find out.

Hooligan

Wow, thanks for all of the responses.

I want to do a lease because I like to trade relatively often and I wouldn't lose as much in trade-in value. I also will not put that many miles on this vehicle- just occasional commutes between Bloomington, Indiana and Indianapolis, Chicago, and Detroit. I've had the Jeep for a little under two years and I have 27,000 on it- so 15k a year will be no problem. I definitely won't drive the Acura as much as I'm driving right now.
Sometime this week I'll go back up to the Acura store to talk to them about leasing. I too did the lease calculator and got a ridiculous figure- so either Acura's leases are crap or Saab's lease is incredible or they might have a better "real life" figure. I actually liked the Saab, but not as much as the Acura- the Saab's MSRP was enough higher and its resale enough lower that I would think Acura should be able to offer a competitive lease.

Thanks for all the info on the gas- I'm not a cheapskate, but if I can get away with regular, I would prefer. Does anyone run midgrade? Around here it's 89 octane, but we're a pretty low altitude. The Acura will unlikely ever see more than 3000 ft above sea level.

Finally, it looks like availability of a base 6-speed is pretty slim! It seems like all the 6-speeds have Navi. I wonder how hard it will be to find one...

thanks all!

nct1596

Yeah, the 6MT non-navi pickings are quite slim. I wanted one and have it ordered. Went in to the dealership on May 21, 2004 - paid the deposit ($500) and the salesman said he'd try to find one with my color selection (CGP/QZ) in their dealer network. No such luck. So it had to be ordered directly. Needless to say, this means waiting for the car. Supposedly it was to be built last week, and I should take delivery sometime mid-July. If you need a car 'now', the TSX may not be for you. However, if you want to wait (and have the patience to do so), then I feel that the TSX in the long run will be better for you...unless those rediculous lease terms are for real.

Hooligan

Huh... well I may end up with a navi TSX if it comes down to it. I've never owned a manual trans car- now is the time! I just don't think I'd use the navi and I don't really like how it complicates the controls a little bit. It's also $$

robert_tsxgeek

>>I just don't think I'd use the navi

Get it and you'll see

>>and I don't really like how it complicates the controls a little bit. It's also $$

But it adds so much to the cool factor !
I have yet to come across a posting in which someone regrets getting the Nav...
I have see quite a few of the opposite, people who are sorry they did not get it.

Jason

Do a search on 'navigation' and you'll see what it's all about. I can tell you I can't live without it. Also, of all the people that tell of their experiences with owning a nav car, I think I've only seen one person regret it.

underdog_RENAMED

I ordered my car a couple weeks back, and Navi was not an option ( ) so I can't be frustrated about not being able to afford the option anyway, which I would have been.

Basically, I'm glad Acura Canada made the choice for me because I would likely regret not getting it if I had the choice.

It took a lot to get that out for some reason....

Cheers
Dave

lar27

Actually I can relate to u here Hooligan I had a Jeep Grand Cheokee 2000 before my TSX. One thing is that u'll be really careful trying not to go over the vurb while parallel Parking. The ground clearance is something u goin to miss. Other then that go ahead a get the TSX.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Jeep Grand Cherokee = bad handling on road and poor gas mileage

TSX = excellent handling on road and much better gas mileage

Just a matter of personal preference. As long as there is no off-roading involved, I think the TSX is a pretty good choice

freeride149

don't fall for the 269/mo saab lease with 3k down. you'll actually end up putting down near 4k at the time of signing. for 33k-35k 9-3, you can put down less than 2 grand and lease one for 350ish a month for about 3, 3.5 years. i dunno if you've already checked out the 9-3 linear, but the base is REALLY base. i'd call it sh*tty. that's not to say i don't like the aero (37k, about 400,450/mo lease)

as far as tsx lease goes, expect about 350/mo for non-navi, 3 years, about a grand down. but im sure you'll find out actual figures once you talk to the salespeople.

toddstuh

I've a Jeep Cherokee 5 speed and a Honda Pilot which my wife drives. The Pilot is like the TSX and the Jeep Combined but even better. It's quiet, rides really nicely, handles quite well for a big SUV and it's quick as well. We get 18-25 mpg with the Pilot. We get alot of Ice here in New England and the Pilots intelligent AWD works excellently.
The Jeep I use primarily for foul weather driving, and hauling. I like the 4 wheel capability in the snow, I run 4 blizzak snow tires The Jeep will go through deep snow which a car will not. We live in New Hampshire and it's not uncommon to get a foot or more of snow overnight.
The Jeep is also good for trips to Home Depot, or Costco I can haul quite abit in it. It's fun to drive as well with the standard transmission and the limited slip differential and big Michelins.
I get 19-21 mpg winter time and 23-25mpg Summertime with the Jeep.

The TSX is for fair weather driving, I open the sunroof on nice days...crank the tunes...sweet !
The two vehicles are at complete opposites of the vehicle spectrum. I guess thats why I have one of each. The TSX is very quiet and fuel efficient on the highway. Looking at your planned trips, it'll be perfect for the highway. I am currently getting 32mpg+ in mixed driving.
The only negative I have for the TSX is that it makes you drive fast ! You will find yourself going alot faster than you'd intended. I'd recommend using the cruise control...

McGriddle

I'll be switching from a Jeep Wrangler to the TSX pretty soon. Basically, having and SUV and having a four door sedan is not really even a comparison since they're both for completely differnet uses.

I loved my Jeep for off-roading, driving topless in the summer, and for just plain fun. Now that I'm just a bit older and getting ready for a totally different type of job, I need something more practical. That's where the TSX comes in. It's better for everyday driving, for comfort, and for gas mileage (my TJ only gets like 14 mpg).

Totally different strokes for different folks.

TSX=XTC

Please dont post things that you have No IDEA about!!!!

Running 87-89 octane gas with a car that is Equipped with a FACTORY KNOCK sensor, will do 0% damage to it.......Before you would even damage the engine the ECU would retard timing. The only difference that YOU will see is
1)less power
2)more $$ in your pocket


The only thing HIGHER octane gas does is, allow the car(ECU) to advance timing via the Knock sensor

TSX=XTC

Here is the loss in performance