kpierson

KPtechnologies (http://www.KPtechnologies.com) has entered the testing phase with its newest product - the MT-20 Mirror Tilt Module.

The MT-20 will automatically tilt your side mirror for you when your vehicle is in reverse. After the car has been out of reverse for ~10 seconds the mirror will automatically be motored back to its original starting position.

The first Honda test module was installed on a 2004 Honda Accord sedan, but it is believed the TSX installation will be almost identical.

Videos of the module in action can be found here:

http://www.kptechnologies.com/images...irrortilt1.avi

http://www.kptechnologies.com/images...irrortilt2.avi

Installation wasn't too bad. I removed the door sill plate (one screw beneath the trunk lock out cylinder), removed the kick panel (2 snaps), removed the drivers side lower dash (1 screw, 75 or so clips, most of which were lost), then removed the drivers side under dash (3 clips).

This exposed most of the wiring of the vehicle.

I followed the KPtechnologies instructions (will be posted soon on the site) and hooked up 12v constant and switched first.

12volt constant = White (hooks to KPtech red)
12volt switched = White/Red (hooks to KPtech yellow)





I then proceeded to connect the ground wire. There is a ground running to the sunroof control switch, so I tapped it. I had already used this wire for the KPtech one touch sunroof module so it was a no brainer. If you don't have a sunroof there is always the option of a chassis ground.





I then grabbed the reverse wire, which was green in color and connected it to the KPtech purple wire. The reverse wire was found on the end of the fusebox, around the corner from where all the fuses are.





Finally, there were four wires left, and they all connected to the mirror. I had some problems finding the right two wires at first, as I didn't have a wiring diagram for the car. After some mistakes and some troubleshooting I found that the Mirror Up wire is White/Red and the Mirror Down wire is Red/Yellow.

I gently tugged at each wire to pull more wire out of the protective loom (don't pull on the end that the harness is on, or you could pull the wire out of the harness and have a major problem). I was able to pull close to 2" of extra wire out of the harness, making it easier to work with. I then cut both wires, and followed the instructions:

Mirror Up - The 'harness' side of the wire is the mirror side, so the harness side of the White/Red (up) wire gets connected to the KPtech Blue wire. The 'loom' side is the switch side, and it gets connected to the KPtech Green wire.

Mirror Down - The 'harness' side of the wire is the mirror side, so the harness side of the Red/Yellow (down) wire gets connected to the KPtech Brown wire. The 'loom' side is the switch side, and it gets connected to the KPtech Orange wire. I took a lot of pictures so that there wouldn't be any confusion on this part, as it is normally the harnest part to figure out:

Pic 1


Pic 2


Pic 3




This last picture shows how close all the wires are that are needed.

In the left of the picture, behind the green wire, you can make out a 2nd green wire with some black tape around it. The black tape is covering the splice to the KPtech pruple wire that provides the reverse input signal. In the middle of the picture you can see the 'Mirror Up' wire (White/Red) and the wire to the left of it in the harness is the Mirror Down wire (Red/Yellow). At the top of the picture you can see the two bigger wires that have been spliced in to for power. That is 5 of the 6 wires needed for the install all right there, the only thing left is the ground!



The bad news about this is that it hasn't actually been released yet, but we are looking at a release date in the next few weeks. Before the official release we will have one of these installed in a TSX and will note any changes. Moda_way, when are you free?

mrpeeng

I've been waiting for this for almost a yr

jerzpwr

awesome ... keep us updated!

jerzpwr

Why the 10 second lag to bring it back to original position?

Jeff The Pianist

Sometimes you don't just reverse once...you go...forward and back...then forward and back. if the mirror returns to its position right away...it's gonna go down and up many times. hope this makes sense!

cestmoi

so after 10s, it will auto revert, no matter how many times you put the transmission in "D" and then "R" and then "D" and then "R?" Or does the timer reset itself each time you take it out of "R?"

kpierson

Each time you put the car back in R it will reset the timer. The tranny has to be out of R for 10 consecutive seconds to go back up.

This is for parallel parking.

mltk53

sounds great!
but can u customize how far this thing tilts and can u customized the timer to <10secs?

97AcuraCL

6spd compatability?

kpierson

The first test module was installed on a 6mt so there shouldn't be any problems.

The tilt time is completely adjustable (down and back up). The 10s delay is not adjustable.

visuelz

The delay is kind of bad if you're pulling out of a parking spot. If you have to reverse a bit to get out, you're going to find yourself not seeing traffic. I think it might be kind of dangerous.

Bigtimebooch

Awesome, I am all over this. Might throw in one of the one-touch sunroof modules while I'm at it.

On a side note...no solder or crimp connectors in the pics because it was still in testing? Seems uh...how do I say..."ghetto"

knthornt

Pretty sure this is only for the right mirror. very rarely do you parrellel park on the left side of the road...and when you do, judging distance to the curb can be done by opening your door.

visuelz

But if you pull out from the left side, you wont be able to see traffic.

zainzb06tsx

if its for both mirrors, im sold.

acn684

visuelz, im sure most of the time you pull foward with gear in D or 1st when pulling into traffic...but your concern seems to be important in some cases like pulling out of a garage spot i use my mirrors to judge my distance to the car next to me.

KP- is there anyway we can incorporate a switch somewhere in the wiring diagram so it only works when we want it to work? That would be awesome.

yungwunn911

would there be a way to disable it also?

I know on BMWs, if you have mirror adjuster set to the passenger side, the auto tilt would be deactivated.

-mike

acn684

i think you'll need two modules for both sides after looking at the install. You have to find the left side mirror and just replicate this. I think we might be able to install a 3 way rocker switch for this.

Rocker - Up - left side tilt
Rocker - Middle - Disable
Rocker - Down - right side tilt.

The rocker connects to the reverse signal wire, leaving the middle connector blank for a bypass.

Actually, If we want to go really "OEM" on this - I think there might be a way to use the mirror adjustment knob as our "switch". twist to the left to use left side tilt, middle for none and right for right side tilt. I'm not too good with wiring mods so maybe KP can chime in on this?

kpierson

I haven't seen the wiring digram for the Acura yet, but I'm 90% sure you can't incorporate the OEM switch to create a 'BMW' style control.

The problem is that the mirrors are '3 wire' mirrors, meaning that the up/down function shares a wire with the left/right function. Because they share a wire, at rest all wires are 'open'. Because all wires are open there are no connections made unless the mirror control switch is pushed. Since no connections are made there is no way to use the switch as a control.

As it is set up right now, only the right mirror is controlled. This can be changed by buying two modules, but installation for the left mirror will be more time consuming, as you will have to run wires in to the doors.

The tilt function can easily be bypassed, and the module actually offers two modes of operation. Mode 1 will tilt the mirrors after the tranny has been in R for > 1 second. If you shift to R, pull it out of R within 1S and then put it back in R within 1S the tilt feature is bypassed.

Mode 2 is the opposite, when you put it in reverse nothing happens. But, if you put it in R, shift out of R, then put it back in R you will trigger the tilt function. I was running Mode 2 in the videos and if you listen you can hear the auto tranny going in and out of R twice. The 1 second delay was incorporated so that auto trannys don't trigger the tilt function shifting in to D.

The module is designed as a parking aide, so it isn't necesarry to tilt the mirrors when pulling out of spots, or if it might be dangerous. Also, if you remember your drivers education classes they teach you not to use your right mirror while driving anyway, and there are some econmoy cars that don't include right hand mirrors from the factory!!!

All of my connections were soldered, give me some credit here! If it was my car I might not have soldered them, as I'm a master of wire twisting and Scotch 33+ing. But, this is my wife's car, so no room for error. In fact, if you look at the pictures, the power, ignition, reverse, and ground wires are soldered, I just didn't take a picture of the mirror wires solderd.

acn684

ah i consider myself educated. but we can add a rocker switch for it can't we? I mean, if we did a 2 way rocker switch on the 12v constant wire, the module won't get juiced if we switch it off. Which would disable the module all together an negating the need to shift in and out of R in either mode.

kpierson

Yes, I rocker switch could be added on the ignition wire (or power wire, for that matter) that would prevent operation of the module completely. If you installed two of them you could get a 3 way rocker switch that would allow you to select left, right, or both, and then use the built in 'bypass' feature to have complete control of the tilting.

I, myself, have not seen a need for a left hand tilt, in a worse case scenario I just drop my window and look.

I, myself, also, hardly ever tilt the mirror, but when I do it is a big help. I typically only use it for parallel parking and backing in to marked parking spots. The tilt mirror makes it easy to see exactly where you are when parking matters.

Backing out of my garage and down my driveway it is more of a hinderance so I don't use it then.

moda_way

OK kevin, when do you want to come down to my house or vice versa, I come up to yours?

kpierson

I'm availible M-F after 5ish and any weekend day. I believe its my turn to come to you. You done with that spray gun?

moda_way

More than welcome for you to journey down my way. I didn't get a chance to use the spray gun yet. Ended up having some other priorities to take care of, so it is still in the box in the garage. I was going to use it to spray my shutters, but then just decided to replace them all with the stock color they come in. If you'd like, bring the fiancee/wife with you and we can do some dinner or something.

I noticed the concern one member had about the delay coming back from tilt. We'll have to talk more about that.

PJS

I think 5 secs is more than sufficient delay, plus the benefit of both mirrors working in tandem is very useful for reversing into car parking spaces at the mall or wherever.

kpierson

5 seconds simply isn't long enough if you are parallel parking. By the time you position the wheel and pull forward the mirror will start its way back up, then back down when you're back in to reverse.

Again, please remember this module is intended for parking, not for pulling out of a spot. Thefore, the 10 second delay really won't come in to play on a daily basis.

RTizzo

a stock tsx doesnt have this tilting mirror in reverse?

mrgold35

I've looked at the Honda web sites for Japan and they have a tilt passenger mirror feature and back up camera for Accord/TSX body styles. Could there be a plug-n-play OEM solution for this we could order from a vendor in the USA or overseas?

Other than the steering wheel being on the other side, both North American and Japanese versions probably come from the same manufacturing plant with all the same parts and connections.

wickedk24

Man I want, I want !!!

vwong

First of all, I'd like to say that this module seems like a good idea. I really like the auto tilt function in my A4, and I would like to have it in my TSX as well.

Here are my questions. Is the "12V constant" with key off, or with key on (ignition)? I would assume that this module only needs 12V power when ignition is switched on. Therefore, the KPtech red wire can be hooked up to the ignition wire (whichever factory color it is).

Then for the "12V switched", I'm assuming that this is to activate the module such that it is ready to do its work. Can't the KPtech yellow wire hook up to the factory mirror knob (the one you turn before you adjust the mirrors)? My idea is that when this knob is in the center position, it deactivates the auto tilt function (just like my A4). But when this knob is turned to the passenger side (right side), then it activates the auto tilt when you put the gear in reverse. So you might be able to find that one wire for the knob with it's turned to the right side, then hook up the KPtech yellow wire to it. I think this might eliminate an additional rocker switch, and certainly better than putting it in R, then out of R within 1 second, and put it back in R.

You think you can try that out in your car since you're the only one with this module?

acn684

vwong, KP addressed that. I had the same exact question lol. I mean, i think if you go through the wiring diagram, and work something real fancy out, it just might. But that would involve going into that actualy switch and thats a whole mess of problems on its own. Its much easier if you incorporate a rocker switch right next to the sun roof controls. KP! whenever you are ready i am ready to buy ur window, sunroof, auto tilt, and probably the auto door lock with speed reading! You make awesome products!

kpierson

All contacts on the OEM switch rest in the 'open' position, meaning they don't conduct electricity at all when you arn't actually pushing the button.

This is because the mirrors are 'three wire' mirrors. There are two wires that move the mirror up/down and two wires that move the mirror left/right. But, instead of using 4 wires, the two independent motors share a wire. Because they share a wire all contacts are open until the button is pushed.

The module requires 12vdc constant voltage so if you shut the car off with the mirrors tilted the mirror will untilt itself automatically after the timer times out, even with the igntion off. This also prevents the mirror from 'losing' its place if you were to shut the ignition off while the mirror is moving up or down.

Bigtimebooch

My mistake...just saw those first two and started to wonder.

iamfreetofly

great work kpierson...i have been looking into this for awhile.. i did come upon LaneFX (http://www.lanefx.com/purchase/)..the highway edition includes the side mirror tilt mod...but i have been hesistant in buying it due to the pricing... i'll be waiting for your finish work..

calcbert

Looks like you've got the Mitsuba brand PGM-FI Main Relay 2...have you had that checked out for the fuel pump relay recall?

hahaitzskippy

NICE...

i know the TL's and other higher models have this. the TSX needs something like this

kpierson

Two of our goals were low cost and easy installation. Our price will be much better then the LaneFX and I'm sure our installation will be much easier.

DLTSX6MT

Without position encoders to sense the actual position of the mirror glass, how accurately does the mirror get positioned after being moved around? After reversing a few times, will the mirror still be in the place it's supposed to be?

kpierson

Our standard is that the mirror should move up and down at least 10 complete cycles without needing to be adjusted. Our first design failed this test as it didn't allow for the down stroke to be different then the upstroke, but our second design easily passed it.

However, it all comes down to how well the system is 'tuned'. It is time based and both the down and up times need to be set. When set properly you can go quite a while before making any adjustments. In my personal car I don't remember the last time I made any manual adjustments.

acn684

Can it be programmed to ahve the same uptime? I don't understand why someone would want to have seperate up times and down times. If its a design issue, anyway to work around it so the module just duplicates the down time to up time?