Fooman

As I was driving down the interstate, I came up on another TSX and noticed that the rear tires appear to have a negative camber with the factory ride. I also notice this on my girlfriend's Civic. Is this normal?

And no, neither cars were modified and I'm almost sure that the trunk wasn't loaded with anything heavy. I looked at my car with empty trunk and the rear tires seem to sit with a slight negative camber. Just wondering if this is normal and whether it would affect tire wear.

97AcuraCL

I've noticed this as well on my buddy's TSX (we both have TSX's mine is SSM, his is MSM)

I see it all the time on accords as well (G/F just bought an 03' 4dr LX) ... whats up with that ?

BuddySol

my only guess at this moment is that it's for better cornering/handling.

Brad

Could it be that yaw adjustment I read about in some review????

Lung Fu Mo Shi

My guess is, and it's only a guess is the following:

As a car goes through a turn, the TSX especially the back end seems to roll onto the tires. As a result the suspension geometry changes. If there was no negative camber, the tires would then have the most force exterted on the outside edge, resulting in poor grip. The negtive camber counteracts this and thus applies full tire width during cornering.

My presumption is this is also why as you corner the TSX you roll a lot at first and then stops with progressive force. So it rolls then stops. Turn the other way, roll then stop.

This could be intentional to provide maximum comfort along with good cornering...more or less a 2-stage approach.

But then this is all a big guess.

A related question is why to F1 cars have huge negative camber in the front wheels and almost none in the back?

James

i see this happen to almost every toyota/lexus product if someones sitting in the back seat

larchmont

BTW -- This thread makes it look like everybody on here knows about "negative camber."

I guess everyone who has dared to post on this thread does know. But I didn't -- I had to look it up, and now I do. I wonder how common knowledge it is.

I'd bet it's not.

mozart

very pithy observation Larch....hey Larch, do you think you'll be doing much posting on Sunday?....better double up on Saturday, huh?

mozart

BuddySol

And going deeper into suspension physics, more negative camber out back should decrease understeer. Making the TSX, as well as other Hondas, more neutral.

moda_way

If you look in the spec limits on the manual, the chamber does go slightly negative, as I recall from memory. This is not a bad thing, as a matter of fact, I think it is a tactic used by most manufacturers. Ever paid attention to the back ends of Mercedes-Benz or BMWs??

vwong

Wrong!!! It'll increase understeer up to a point where there is just too much negative camber in the rear.

A zero camber is that the wheels/tires are perfectly straight if you look at the wheels from the front (or from the rear) of the car. Under cornering, the outside tires (left side tires if cornering to the right, or right side tires if cornering to the left) will roll over no matter how much camber you have. And as a fact, the tire tread will provide maximum grip than the tire side wall. With zero camber, the full width of the tire tread is in contact with the road, therefore providing maximum grip. When the tire rolls over under cornering, it'll lose portion of it full tread in contact with the road, and now portion of the side wall is in contact with the road. As a result of this, you lose grip.

OTOH, a negative camber starts out with 90% (this is just a number I use to explain as an example only) of the tire's full tread in contact with the road. When cornering, the tire rolls over but this time instead of portion of the side wall is in contact with the road, the full tread is in contact with the road. Therefore, providing more grip.

With that in mind, and also the fact that most auto makers build the cars with slightly more understeer characteristic for safety issues, that is why the front has zero camber and the rear has slight negative camber. During a panic, emergency situation, an average driver will most likely be able to handle a car that understeers than a car that oversteers. This is also another reason why most auto makers use much larger anti-sway bar in the front and smaller anti-sway bar in the rear (if any) of the car.

Disclaimer: By no means that I’m an expert in suspension geometry. I don’t know everything, I just learn about suspension because I’m an auto-x’er, and suspension tuning is very important in this sports. If anyone who’s interested in learning more about suspension tuning/chassis tuning, I would recommend you to pick up a book called “How to Make Your Car Handle” by Fred Puhn.

BuddySol

sorry my bad...i kind of got the two mixed up. been a while. but yah, i always noticed them big rwd euros with huge neg. camber...especially them Porches.