Buff-Daddy

Hello All, I know these cars are compared a lot, so here are the current lease #'s I have received after 2 weeks of working deals.

All of these leases are 36 months, 12k/yr on vehicles WITH Automatic Transmission & WITHOUT Navi.

TSX
MSRP = $26,990
$2,500 total down, $354/mo

Lexus IS300 - Leather Package with everything TSX has.
MSRP = $33,797
$3,500 total down, $439/mo

BMW 325i - Leatherette - Power Seats - Heated Seats - Moonroof
MSRP = $32,790
$3,500 total down, $371/mo

I assume that you know everything that is included with the TSX. The Lexus and BMW have a lot more options you can add/subtract, so that is the reason things are listed out.

I have fully ruled out the Lexus, it has the smallest back seat and thier pricing is through the roof. The TSX makes the most sense, but I hate the fact that I am leasing off of straight MSRP and they won't bargain because they don't have to at this point. Every dealer only has about 4 coming each month and Carbon is obviously the most popular color. I know if I waited until April, the hype will be over and they will be $299/mo.
The BMW is only priced this low because they are clearing them out for the 2004's. This same car was leasing for $450 about 10 months ago...

Unbiased thoughts?

JaTe

u need to shop around. i went to a lexus dealer b4 i ordered my tsx and i got a price of $27,000 for the IS300 fully loaded with the SportDesign Package.

STRYKER

I'd rule out the Lexus simply because I don't like it. The Bimmer I like, but.... model will be changing. The TSX has it's advantages, but so does the Bimmer. Choice is up to you. They're both great cars, but I think we all prefer the TSX, otherwise we would not be here.

Buff-Daddy

Yeah right! The cheapest "Sport Design" lists for $34,453!

But I am sure they would just bend over and take it up the shoot for you because you are.... NO ONE!

Lexus usually needs to take $7,453 off of the MSRP in order to sell thier cars, I'm sure they do it all of the time.

Hey Everyone, It's Lexus' famous 20+% off sale!

It's people like you with your far fetched, ignorant stories that make these boards a joke.

kurt_bradley

Take into consideration with the TSX that you're looking at a car that is in it's 3rd month on the market and that has a margin of only 2 grand. You're not going to be seeing any deals on them. Not only that, but AHFC isn't going to be putting any sort of promotional residuals on the TSX. They don't need to. Looking at the expected production numbers for the TSX and all it has to offer, the TSX is the better bet especially after you look at the lease payments.

fdl

The IS300 gets bumped from the list first, thats a no brainer (for me anyways). Its definately not worth the extra $$ IMO.

Honestly with the bmw and tsx prices being so close, it would be a tough call. You get more features in the tsx, but more performance in the bmw. Although Acura has the advantage in reliability over all, when you are talking about a 3 or 4 year lease the advantage becomes much smaller.

Either way you are getting a great car and cant loose.

kurt_bradley

What state you live in kinda has some effect on your payments too. Some dealers have less availability in some states.

JaTe

whoa whoa...this is a deal i got from a dealer in jersey. this would be my third car from there and it was the end of the month. lexus knows how to take care of their customers. dont call BS unless u have the facts straight.

I just merely stated what deal i got. dont be jealous cause u cant get that kind of deal.

plus the IS300 is in for a redesign...they are plenty in stock and dealers will deal in order to move them

kurt_bradley

This is the same for the A4 too. It's new model will be out in September. Though just a facelift, it's still got Audi dealers in a position to where they have a little bit of trunk money to use on the deal.

lshenretty

I believe you should buy what you want as long as you can afford it, Buff, but you're kidding yourself a little if you think these prices are close.

I don't know how that IS300 compares in options, but when you factor in the extra $1,000 down, it's already $110/month or so more than the TSX, which would translate to an extra $4,000 over 36 months. (The $1,000 extra down lowers the monthly payment by $20 to $30, depending on what the capitalized cost and the interest rate are.) And that doesn't count the fact that you'll pay sales tax of 5-8% on the extra cost per month.

And I love BMWs, but the prices you quote mean the cars aren't remotely close for comparably equipped cars. There's the extra $1,000 down and the extra sales tax, but there's much more. I don't remember all the options, but to get the BMW loaded like the TSX, you'd have to add at least the premium package and the sport package, maybe leather (don't remember whether that's part of the premium package or not, but leatherette is vinyl - not awful, but not leather), the upgraded stereo, the $500 Xenon headlights, $500 or more extra if you want metallic paint ..... maybe other options I can't remember. By the time you're finished, I'll bet the MSRP is pushing $40,000.

The BMW is such a sweet ride that it might be worth giving all those things up, but the difference is a big one, not a small one. And the TSX seems to be a pretty sweet ride in its own right. I hope to find that out for sure if the Acura allocation gods ever stop frowning on me.

MotownTSX

If you decide on the 325, you would be better financing it rather than leasing EVEN IF you are sure you will dump it in 3 to 4 years. The reason being is that the resale value will be high and you can trade-in anytime you want and not get taken to the cleaners with a lease. I would take a 72-month loan even over a 3-year lease........you make up the upside-down and then have the option of turning it in whenever you feel.

kurt_bradley

On any lease you're going to be upside-down if you try to get out of it before its maturity date. It doesn't matter if you're on the BMW, the Lexus, or the Acura. When you're only paying for a portion of a car (which you are on a lease), you're going to have the lump of the balloon that you'll be responsible for on the trade-in. You'll be heavily buried in the BMW on their lease (worse than the Acura). Honda Finance sets up the lease residuals on the TSX to be right around 52%, so if you want to get out of the car about a year away from maturity, you'll take less of a hit than you would on the BMW. Find out what your residuals on the cars are in addition to what the terms of the deal are. At the same time you can have the dealers play with the money factor on the deal to make a little bit of difference on the payments. Some dealers won't play with money factor at all, but it's the part of a lease deal that is similar to interest rate. Most of the time it only makes a small difference on the payments. I had to say it again.

95 Legend LS

Buff Daddy -

For comparison, there are two dealers in S. Florida with a TSX lease advertised:

$249/mo + tax, $4,194 down + tag and delivery.

There's also a base BMW 325 lease at $219/mo + tax/$5,500 down.

Also, BMW 525 closeout, $319/mo + tax, $5,500 dpw.

Hope this helps.

Buff-Daddy

And I love BMWs, but the prices you quote mean the cars aren't remotely close for comparably equipped cars. There's the extra $1,000 down and the extra sales tax, but there's much more. I don't remember all the options, but to get the BMW loaded like the TSX, you'd have to add at least the premium package and the sport package, maybe leather (don't remember whether that's part of the premium package or not, but leatherette is vinyl - not awful, but not leather), the upgraded stereo, the $500 Xenon headlights, $500 or more extra if you want metallic paint ..... maybe other options I can't remember. By the time you're finished, I'll bet the MSRP is pushing $40,000.

The BMW is such a sweet ride that it might be worth giving all those things up, but the difference is a big one, not a small one. And the TSX seems to be a pretty sweet ride in its own right. I hope to find that out for sure if the Acura allocation gods ever stop frowning on me. [/B][/QUOTE]


Hi lshenretty, I appreciate your comments...

The BMW has everything the TSX does except for the xenons and that is a nice feature, but not essential. The upgraded stereo sounds better on paper than it does in person. You have the whole 4-Cylinder vs. V6 debate too, but there are pro's and con's to both. But before you can call it a no contest, you have to realize that the BMW started out $4,000 more too. Of course you are going to have to pay more for it, but you are getting a very solid vehicle for a very discounted price.

So what I am asking is what is the best overall deal, not the cheapest deal. Do I save a little money and have to put up with rattles and 1st year problems? Or do I go with a more solidly built German car and have free maintenance to back it up?

It is a tough decision, if I could get the $314 that someone reported on the TSX, we wouldn't be talking about this, but my dealers will not be there for 6 months...

This same thing happened with the MDX, I ended up buying and X5...

Iceman

Buff-Daddy, we're getting darned close to new TL time. If I were you, I'd wait a couple months and check out the new TL. If you're willing to lease a car whose MSRP is in the mid 30's, this is the one for you.

MotownTSX

The residual for the 325i is 59% and the lease rate is 3.6%. Very good rates indeed...better than Acura. Since you are only paying for 41% of the auto, as opposed to the 48% on Acura (at this current time), you should find the BMW lease to be more attractive. The lease rate for my RSX was just over 6%.

Anyway, as I said before, BUY don't lease. If you really want to get out of your auto in a few years anyway, buying makes more sense with the Bimmer especially (this was my original point) since they hold their value very well and you will have less trouble finding market value for your used vehicle.

MotownTSX

Buffdaddy, the 325 have HIDs.

Here are the pros and cons as I see them:

325 Pros:

---Solid driver and road manners

---German engineering history

---Top-flight service crew + FOUR YEARS free maintenance and scheduled maintenance

---Prestige if you give a damn

325 Cons:

---Expensive in category

---Repairs/scheduled maintenance are expensive after warranty (if you are dumping in a few years, this doesn't amtter)

---New model design coming out in a little over 18 months

The TSX is also a hot ride and it really all comes down to at what deal can you get yourself a 325 to save your wallet. Insider info is that 2003 3'ers are now offered at 1.9% financing and HIDDEN dealer incentive of $2,500. You should be able to stake a $2,000 claim.

Good luck whatever your choice......you will have a fine auto!!!

Lung Fu Mo Shi

BMW = maintence nightmare.

It's not a "solid" car.

Granted, it's not a Kia, but it's also not what I expect of a $40K car.

MotownTSX

It ranked fifth in reliability on JD and eighth on a consumer satisfaction survey that I've mentioned before but can't remember the name of....well above average. Plus, first FOUR YEARS of EVERYTHING MAINTENANCE is free.

Where's the problem?

Buff-Daddy

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Maintenance is free for the duration of the lease, so even if things went bad, it wouldn't matter. We already have a BMW X5 and it has been flawless for over a year and a half. And it isn't a 40,000 car, it is a $33,000 car. The TSX is a $27,000 car and I am afraid to buy one based on all of the complaints about rattles, clunks, and quality issues with this 1st edition car...

Buff-Daddy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MotownTSX
[B]Buffdaddy, the 325 have HIDs.

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You have to pay extra for Xenons, the one I can get does not have them as an option. Only thing missing on the one I can get. Good write up though, thanks for your comments, very fair.

MotownTSX

Where did you get this deal? X'ers start at $40.2k.

Buff-Daddy

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Sorry, jumping back and forth, I was actually responding to his comment about the 325i not what he expected from a $40,000 car. I was just telling him that it is only a $32,000 car.

Our X5 has all 4 packages, titanium trim and trailor hitch. Came in a little over 50k. LOVE IT!

MotownTSX

Sweet!

If you like the X5, then you might be jealous of the new X3 coming out....

dez

I'm not sure WHERE you people are getting your information, but the RESIDUAL that AHFC is using on the TSX (for the non-navi) is an AMAZING 64% ... it has been that for the last MONTH or so .. so, I don't know where you people are coming up with 52% or whatever you've been quoted, unless it's different where YOU live, or you're NOT going through AHFC ...

AHFC numbers on the TSX are 64% residual with a .00205 standard money factor .. and this is based on a 36 months, with 12000mi/year ...

Even at only $500 off sticker, that still equates to around a $380 a month payment (including TAX and with the $550 bank fee rolled into the lease) ... with JUST inceptions due.

dom

Motown, I still can't figure out why your BMW/Red Wing lovin ass has'nt been ban yet

Buff Daddy, IMO at those prices choosing one or the other won't break the bank either way so getting the best deal should'nt as important to you right now as buying the car that YOU feel most comfortable with. IMO if you like the Bimmer over the TSX or Vice Versa, that's the car you buy. I mean sure the Bimmer is slightly more a month and 1k more out of pocket but if you like it more than that's a small price to pay for 3 year peace of mind. Plus as mentioned before the Bimmer has free maintenace which almost negates the cost difference.

lshenretty

Hi lshenretty, I appreciate your comments...

The BMW has everything the TSX does except for the xenons and that is a nice feature, but not essential. The upgraded stereo sounds better on paper than it does in person. You have the whole 4-Cylinder vs. V6 debate too, but there are pro's and con's to both. But before you can call it a no contest, you have to realize that the BMW started out $4,000 more too. Of course you are going to have to pay more for it, but you are getting a very solid vehicle for a very discounted price.

So what I am asking is what is the best overall deal, not the cheapest deal. Do I save a little money and have to put up with rattles and 1st year problems? Or do I go with a more solidly built German car and have free maintenance to back it up?

It is a tough decision, if I could get the $314 that someone reported on the TSX, we wouldn't be talking about this, but my dealers will not be there for 6 months...

This same thing happened with the MDX, I ended up buying and X5... [/QUOTE]



Hey, Buff-Daddy, here's one more stab from the Beating-Dead-Horses-Are-Us owner and chief practitioner.

Walking through the build-your-own-car at the BMW site, as I see it, in order to match the TSX automatic options list, you would have to add:
Metallic paint - $475
Leather - $1,450
Cold weather package (to get heated seats and fold down rear seats) - $1,000
Sport package (to get the larger wheels and tighter suspension) - $1,400
Automatic - $1,275
Moonroof - $1,050
Power seats (also get power passenger seat) - $995
Xenon lights - $700
Harmon Kardon sound (this is a very big difference over the base system) - $675

And it sez here at the end that this car has an MSRP of $38,015.

That's not to say you wouldn't love that Bimmer that you're considering. You already know you would. And more than any other consideration, that has to define your choice.

prballard

This is the bigest bunch of bull I have ever heard. There are no quality issues with this car. Minor nuannces, maybe at worst. No major design flaws and one hell of an enigineered machine!! Have you ever owned a BMW or an Acura??? Acura's are far more reliable. It is a Honda for God's sake!!! It is made in Japan on top of that!!! Buy the Bimmer if you are that misguided.

lshenretty

Don't sugar-coat it, pr. Tell us what you really think.

I forget whether you're already an owner, but I love your passion for the car. I hope I love it that much.

If it ever comes in.

Buff-Daddy

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Well BUD, I currently own a 1999 Acura CL 3.0 and a BMW X5. So, to answer your question, yes, I have and do currently own both an Acura and BMW, Japanese and German. Plus, in a 36mo. lease, reliability in this day and age is really a non-issue. No one is buying a car for the next 10 years anymore. Minor nuannces on the other hand will annoy you to death on a daily basis.

If you are at all familiar with this site, you can find several people/posts that are concerned with all of the rattles, clunks, etc. It is a fact, so no matter what stage of denial you are in, snap out of it. My debate is not which is the better car, it is which is the better deal for my money, today! Pay full MSRP for a hyped up TSX or get a BMW close to invoice. Acura learned (with the MDX) that if you limit supply, you create demand. Look at the TL and TL S-Type. 2 years ago you would have bit my head off for challenging thier superiority and now they sit on lots, priced below invoice and still not moving...

I am not saying the TSX is not a great car, it obviously is, but don't let the fact that you own one brainwash you from seeing other good deals on other nice cars. It's called being open minded, give it a try...

prballard

I have owned 4 Acuras, but no BMW's. I currently own a Black 93 Vigor GS 5MT. Still going strong after 10 years. I haven't bought a TSX, yet! I apologize for coming on too strong. I should have at least put a few "IMO". The rattles remark just irked me. I really don't think it is an issue, but if after I buy a TSX I will certainly post any problems here. See, I am really a nice guy!

MotownTSX

That's because I drove Sergei to the airport and then told him, "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!"

BTW....we have a netminder that goes by the initials of C.J. Would you be interested in him?!?!?!?!?!

larchmont

Oh YEAH?????

Also, I noticed you're one of the many, many people who say that if the maintenance is covered anyway, what difference does it make if a BMW gives you problems, or if you have loads of money then what does reliability matter. You mean you don't care about the inconvenience, or about the loss of time, or about maybe not being able to get somewhere you were planning to go?

BTW what's the deal with those dotted lines???

Buff-Daddy

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The dotted lines seperate your BS from mine.

As far as the maintenance goes, I am not worried about it because BMW builds a very nice automobile. The fact that they do not nickle and dime you with oil changes and tune-ups is where the free maintenance is a nice addition to the entire package.
I do not worry about being inconvenienced, becuase I already have 1 Bimmer and I know how they handle things. The dealership by me only has BMW loaner cars, so if you do have problems, they set you up in another BMW for the time that yours is out. I have only had to have a winsheild replaced (flying rock) and I got a 5-Series for the day. If that was Acura, they would have sent me to an outside contact and not given me a car. If they did give me a car, it would have been a Ford from some rent-a-car place...
I really do want to buy the TSX, but I am not going to lease off of MSRP and no one around here is willing to bend, so I had to start looking elsewhere.

dom

Don't the Red Wings have an opening for a Janitor at the Joe Louis. That certain C.J would fit the bill perfectly

He would'nt be good enough to even clean the floor at the ACC

By the way Buff Daddy it looks as though you've almost made up your mind. The fact that you even already have another Bimmer, should probly give you a hint that the 3 may be a better fit for you.

Buff-Daddy

Already having 1 is one of the reasons that I DON'T want a 2nd one. I like variety and even though our other BMW is the X5 and not a sedan, it is still similar look and feel.

A guy from a different site e-mailed me a copy of his lease worksheet on the TSX. He is paying $314/mo with $2,500 down and that is much better than the $354/mo that I am being quoted for the exact same car, miles, months, and total down. If one of the dealers in my area is willing to match this, it will be significant enough to get me into a TSX!

I'm just a guy looking for a bargain! I do love BMW's though, but our Acura was good to us as well... I just love cars period!

gndude

$314 a month with $2500 down - what was the term? I'd like to know b/c I'm ready to get into one myself..

Saintor

Jump on the BMW, no joke.

That small difference in $$$ easily justifies itsell, wouldn't it be only for maintenance.

The other big difference is that the I6 is definitely better matched to an automatic.

Boosted_2gz

The price for the IS300 is way off...
their msrp is now around the 29 grand's, and given the fact the new IS is coming in the october, you can literally pressure the dealer for giving some better deals.

Among the three choices, I would say go with either the 325 or the IS300 (leaning more towards 325). Since you're leasing, you will most definetly want to abuse the car ( ) in term of driving dynamic and performance, the TSX is a margin behind 325 and IS300.

Now if you're simply looking for luxury cruiser, than go with the TSX, Imo, they have the best interior compared to the other 2 cars. Just remember that both the IS300 and TSX come with a very short backseat, so it can be slightly uncomfortable if you're bringing your family members for a long trip.

Im giving unbiased opinion, but of course people will try to mess around with my post since I post TSX being the weakest link when it comes to performance so here is some fact for THE ORIGINAL POSTER.

SCCA classification based on class
http://moutons.org/sccasolo/Lists/2005/stockc.html

0 - 60 and 1/4 time and braking feats.
you can basically find it all over the place on how the 325 and IS300 are better than the TSX.

Dan Martin

Guys, this is 2 years old.