93Kewl

Good points Hokie. But don't forget to add: radar parking assist, better brakes, bi-leveling Xenons, auto down parking mirror, one touch auto down/up mirrors and open/close sunroof, and ability to customize the car's features to how "you" would like them (std). Now is that worth an extra $8500? Still perhaps not (to some). While this might not apply to all, considering that I got all this in a Vector package for a total of 35k (including tax, etc) - I would say it was definately worth it!

TSX Hokie

My old Saab 900S had 'Auto Open Sunroof' if you want to call it that. This was not a good thing. Every few months the sunroof would fall off its track. Sometimes, serious rain leakage would occur, causing mold to form on the headliner. The dead mold would then fall upon the occupants of the vehicle every time the car drove over a bump. When I spent 4 months straight with a cough and irritated eyes, I decided the Saab had to go ;-)

Yet for some reason, I miss that car every now and then. There is no way to describe the affection one feels for their first beater.

Back on topic: The best thing about the Maz3 is the kick in the pants it should give Honda to match its performance and features in future Civic models. Mazda makes some fun cars, but they have a long way to go in terms of reliability and quality.

93Kewl

Yes, back on topic - does anyone know how Mazda's doing with it's reliability? Didn't I hear there were some issues with the 6 that involved rust?

However for a sub 20k car (fully loaded) , the 3 offers a great alternative to the rather ho-hum Civic. I bought a brand new Civic Ex cpe back in '93 (first year of a major redesign), threw on OEM spoiler and custom rims and thought that was the shizaat! But now, Mazda may have raised the bar for making cars "exciting" at that price point. A little bit akin to what Toyota is trying to do with the Corolla (Type S).

YBA

I won't comment on comparing the 3 and the TSX but if you decide to go for a 3, PLEASE get the extended warranty. Price of parts are horrendous. I just changed a ball joint and a link on my girlfriend's Protege (2001) and it costed $1,400CDN. That's a f$cking rip off. One more thing, after 3 years, the protege doesn't feel tight at all (with only 60,000 KM). I don't know if the 3 will be the same but I would stay away from Mazda. Mazda is pretty much the only Japanese car manufacturer that I would not recommend. Maintenance and parts cost a fortune.

On the other hand, I drove a 3 hatch and it's a very nice ride, very well equipped.

And Oh, one more thing, resale value goes down fast, very fast (at least on the Protege)



Luc

Vans

nice rationalization

justinjsw

Forget looks...just using simple math to compare the two cars.

TSX...27,035.00
Mazda 3S...20,395.00 (includes spt package, Xenon package, Leather and Moonroof package)

ALG residual at 60 months...
TSX...40%
Mazda 3S...26%

Value at 5 year period...

TSX...10,814.00
Mazda 3S...5,302.00

Cost of ownership for 5 yr period excluding maintanence...

TSX...16,221.00
Mazda 3S...15,093.00

Difference...Mazda 3S +1,128.00

Summary...

Even though it seems the TSX cost alot more than the 3S up front...the reality is the net difference is only 1K when the car is sold within the 4.5-5 year period which happens more often than not.

majormojo

Also, if the car was used for business, the TSX will have generated a greater tax deduction for depreciation expense. I'm not sure what the US rules are, but in Canada there is no capital gain created when you sell your vehicle for more than its current UCC (book value), which is good for owners of vehicles that have high real-world resale values.

Vans

I don't know man, it all comes down to the fact that they are two totally different cars - figure out exactly what you are looking for and buy it.

Airboy

Insurance cost could add up to $1000 difference in 5yr. Premium vs Regular gas can also add up to $1000 over 5yr, depending on how much you drive.

Iceman

Mazda3 raises the bar in the econobox segment. Honda Civic will probably lose the next comparo. I am glad to see Mazda is building good cars. Mazda3 is too small to compare to a TSX. How does it stack up against a Mini?

STL

Justin,
The problem with that comparo is that you are using MSRP. I know for a fact you can easily get the 3s for darn near invoice (since a friend just bought a loaded one last week). So you need to use $18,800 for the Mazda 3s price. Based on what I've seen around here, I think you'd have to use $25,800 for the TSX. Assuming ALG residuals still apply to MSRP, that would make the difference $1,500. Taking gasoline (prem. versus reg.) into account would add up to another $600 over 5 years making the rough total over $2k. That still is not as much as the sticker makes it appear.

What I'd like to know is if there are ALG residual values for longer terms -- like 7, 8, or even 10 years. If so, please let me know what they are.

JOZMAN

Sorry to be the OFF TOPIC here...but has anyone cross shopped with SCION Tc ?

jcg878

holy old threads batman!

jcg878

well, since I last posted in this thread in February, I've had a Mazda3 to drive for almost a month while my TSX was being fixed. The Mazda3 is a great small car, but there's really no comparison to the TSX particularly in overall refinement.

LannyM

...or in safety either. The 3 has been crash tested by the NHTSA, and it didn't fair that well. It will probably do even worse with the IIHS. Since the 3 is all new, safety should have been a higher priority during the design process.

biker

You can cross shop with anything if you want but most folks probably won't.

dom

I actually read through until the end of page 1 thinking it was all new

fdl

jlukja

Yeah, but props to STL for doing a search.

bigbadboss101

The Mazda 6 v6 and the TSX are close in price. I know one is a V6 and one is 4banger but the V6 has slightly more power than the TSX. I have tested both and I agree the Acura is more refined. The 6 is a nice car, but the depreciation is higher.

rsx_r04

Mazda3 is actually bigger than the TSX from the inside! I was very very surprised when i found that out.

rsx_r04

Good point.

According to my insurance, i'd be paying $300 more a year for TSX. And would be forking out over $300 a year for gas (according to www.oee.nrcan.gc.ca/vehicles website).

That's roughly $3,000 in 5 years for both insurance and gas.

pcdawg

The Mazda3 is not bigger than the TSX......ive test-drive the two cars within one week and both times i had my wife, friend and baby in car seat in the back.

The Mazda3 was really cramped in terms of leg room, knee space and space in front of the chest.

The TSX was a bit more space in terms of the seats, better leg room, knee space and the space in front of the chest was really comfortable...more than the 2004 BMW 325xi that my wife drives....

I was planning on getting the Mazda3 for the past several months, due to the best bang for the buck.......for the price u pay...its a true value.

I looked at the TSX since i do have fond memories of my Acura Vigor which i had for 10 years. And it made me go in and check out the TSX.

It all depends on ur budget........u got some money to splurge..the TSX is a good choice...if ur on a tight budget....the MAzda3 is a very good choise for all the options that u can get....

Right now...after my mind set of the Mazda3 for the past several months, after one day of checking out and testdrving the TSX Im leaning towards the Acura

rsx_r04

Specifications (mm): Mazda3 TSX

Wheelbase 2,640 2,670
Track (fr/rr) 1,530/1,515 1,515/1,515
Length 4,540 4,657
Width 1,755 1,762
Height 1,465 1,456
Ground Clearance 145 157.5

Internal dimensions:
Headroom 969/941 960/947
Legroom (fr/rr) 1,065/922 1,076/868
Shoulder room 1,394/1,371 1,406/1,360
Trunk room capacity 322.8 L 368 L

rsx_r04

As we can see, it's clear that Mazda3 has more back space but the TSX has more space for front passengers.

Note that legroom for front is only about 11mm less for Mazda3 over TSX, BUT it has over 200mm of legroom for back passengers. Mazda3 was really cramped in terms of legroom over TSX? I don't think so.

rsx_r04

I can totally understand that since the TSX looks bigger from the outside, it must be bigger from the inside too. But that's clearly an illusion to a naked eye.

Numbers don't lie (unless they messed up somewhere when they were measuring, but i highly doubt it).

pcdawg

Thats really weird....as my wife did sit in both the TSX and the Mazda3 sedan 2 days apart. Clearly, i can see the head room and the chest area in the TSX is a lot bigger. Leg room does seem a bit bigger in the TSX though....

As for the trunk...im surprised the TSX is bigger.... since i have a baby, i brought my full-sized stroller and tested whether it would fit in both the cars. They both have side openings, but it took a bit of jostling to fit the stroller in both cars(the stroller did fit in both cars)...They both have very similar cargo space with the stroller in the trunks...

rsx_r04

So weird! BTW, i do NOT doubt you. Not one bit.

One thing's for sure: TSX is a bigger car from the outside. So it makes sense for it to have more space on the inside too, right? Hmm...

jcg878

Your numbers are lying I had the 'pleasure' of driving the Mazda3 for almost a month (accident - rental car), and the back seat felt small to me. The trunk is also small. The front seat was very spacious though and comfortable

corbs

Umm, that math is way off.

Front Leg Room: 1076 (TSX) - 1065 (Maz3) = 11 <-- Correct
Rear Leg Room: 922 (Maz3) - 868 (TSX) = 54 <-- Not over 200 mm as you said

200mm = ~ 7.9 inches
54mm = ~ 2.1 inches That's almost six inches off, that's probably why the back seat of the Mazda 3 doesn't seem soo much bigger than the TSX. There's 2 inches more leg room, not 6.

rsx_r04

Oops. Thanks for correcting me!

Ok, so it's clear that TSX is roomier (albeit not by very much) than the Mz3.

ClutchPerformer

Not really. The TSX has a bigger trunk and a bigger engine bay, both of which rob the big exterior shape of its interior (cabin) space. Also, the TSX is biased towards front-seat legroom. The 3 distributes the availible space more equally.

rsx_r04

Yeah, that's true.

Nicodemus

I had been planning on getting a TSX with an impending insurance settlement that my wife was getting. However, it's look as if we won't get what we were expecting to, and it looks like the TSX is VERY SADLY out of the question.

I've been looking at the Mazda3s for a couple of days now (even though we haven't driven it) and we drove a Pontiac Grand Prix (dealer didn't have the G6, which is what we were looking for). What would you guys suggest as a pitiful yet next-best car to the TSX in the $25,000US range? The Mazda3 with:
-Moonroof & 6-CD package
-ABS/SAB/SAC package
-Xenon & TPMS
-Sport package (17" wheels, side sills)
-Navigation
-4-Speed Sport AT
-Leather
-Rear Wing Spoiler
-Compass/Outside Temp Autodim mirror
-All-Weather Floor mats
All comes to $23,375US MSRP. I just haven't found anything that I can get all that on and still fall under $25K. Please, if anyone knows of any alternatives, please let me know!

-Nicodemus, who absolutely DETESTS the fact that he may not be able to get the TSX.

joono_sid

Nicodemus,

Have you looked at the 04 Honda Accord EX?
I believe EX V6 with Navi is only a bit more than 25K (assuming that you can get 04 model at cheaper than the invoice price).
Or if you don't care for the Navi then EX I4 is not a bad choice either (and cheaper than Mazda 3).

Nicodemus

Well, this is where my wife's sensibility comes in. She doesn't want an Accord because "everyone has one." I know, I know. But we're trying to reach some sort of happy medium.

corbs

But. . . if you're willing to spend a little over $25k then you might be able to get a TSX (non-navi). I did and so have several others. . . With the model year coming to an end (sometime in the next few months) you might just be able to swing it.

Nicodemus

That's true...

I looked and found that I can get an 05 Accord EX w/Leather & Navi for just over $25 as well...

So, it comes down to two things. Do I want to sacrifice the 40hp to have Navi, or do I want a non-navi TSX with a more powerful I4?

We'll have to wait and see how much we're actually going to get. I suppose the Navi isn't THAT big a deal, but it was one of the things we really liked about the TSX, in addition to everything else. With the Accord and TSX being so close, the only other thing I'd really miss is the SS. We can't get a MT because my wife's had back surgery and she can't clutch for any appreciable amount of time on the road.

Ok, I looked and an '04 TSX 5AT Non-Navi is $27,060 MSRP. How much do you guys think I can get that down to? According to Edmunds.com, the invoice is $24,147. How close to that do you guys think I can get it? I know it depends on a lot, but I'm just looking for what everyone else who's negotiated it as close as they can has done. It also depends on if we can get the money in time before the '04's are gone. If not, no TSX for me.

DCyamaha

hello all, first time poster in here. I just recently bought an 04 ABP non-navi (5AT) about three weeks ago and needless to say I love it!! I actually don't mind the commute so much anymore.

Nicodemus,

to answer your question, the invoice IS $24,147 but you have to figure in the destination charge that the dealership is paying to get the car from Japan, to the dealership. This price is about $560.00 I THINK. So in all, the dealership is paying approx 24,700 for the car. You also have to figure in that they have to get the car ready (detailed etc) which is another cost for them....so that will bring their price upward toward 24,8 - 25k.

I bought my left over 04 for $25,330. then I bought the wheel locks and all-season floor mats. So I got mine for about $500 over the dealership invoice. You should be able to get the same.

Good luck, you can't go wrong with the TSX.

jlukja

Now that the 2005 models are on the way you should be able to pick one up for around $24,700. I got my non-navi, 5AT in late december 03 for $25K. The dealers should be very motivated to get the 04s out the door. Good Luck