Look at what the LEXUS people are saying about the ACURA brand!!
#81
Originally posted by gilboman
MDX is a sports-ute that is way below the RX in qualiyt..they sold 8 NSX's last year... Acura is a 2 car line up... TSX,TL and one suv MDX..unless you want to count the misbadged honda RSX..
TSX= I4, FWD
TL = V6, FWD
and we won't include cars that can't sell more than 15 in a year
so these are luxury cars????? lets not even talk about quality
MDX is a sports-ute that is way below the RX in qualiyt..they sold 8 NSX's last year... Acura is a 2 car line up... TSX,TL and one suv MDX..unless you want to count the misbadged honda RSX..
TSX= I4, FWD
TL = V6, FWD
and we won't include cars that can't sell more than 15 in a year
so these are luxury cars????? lets not even talk about quality
#84
If Lexus doesn't produce a car in the sub $30k range, it will soon be the ONLY "luxury" car maker not to have one. Do you really think a large, successful competitor like Toyota will stay out of a market that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti and Acura are in? It's only a matter of time (at best, they'll wait until they see how the BMW-1 and A3 do in the market).
Oh, wait. I guess at that point, Lexus won't be a luxury car maker anymore! Drat.
Oh, wait. I guess at that point, Lexus won't be a luxury car maker anymore! Drat.
#85
Originally posted by phile
I noticed you picked NSX and RL...two of Acura's aging designs, how convenient. The RL is a luxury car, whether you like it or not. It's as simple as that. I never said the GS LS SC aren't luxury cars; I was merely stating that Lexus, even though you consider them luxury and not Acura, sells to the same demographic that Acura does. Simply because they build more expensive cars is irrelevant when those cars don't sell as well as cars from MB or BMW; they're still selling primarily to customers who are also shopping Acura, but yet you are adamant the two brands are just miles apart.
I noticed you picked NSX and RL...two of Acura's aging designs, how convenient. The RL is a luxury car, whether you like it or not. It's as simple as that. I never said the GS LS SC aren't luxury cars; I was merely stating that Lexus, even though you consider them luxury and not Acura, sells to the same demographic that Acura does. Simply because they build more expensive cars is irrelevant when those cars don't sell as well as cars from MB or BMW; they're still selling primarily to customers who are also shopping Acura, but yet you are adamant the two brands are just miles apart.
#86
Originally posted by vitocorleone
If Lexus doesn't produce a car in the sub $30k range, it will soon be the ONLY "luxury" car maker not to have one. Do you really think a large, successful competitor like Toyota will stay out of a market that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti and Acura are in? It's only a matter of time (at best, they'll wait until they see how the BMW-1 and A3 do in the market).
Oh, wait. I guess at that point, Lexus won't be a luxury car maker anymore! Drat.
If Lexus doesn't produce a car in the sub $30k range, it will soon be the ONLY "luxury" car maker not to have one. Do you really think a large, successful competitor like Toyota will stay out of a market that BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Infiniti and Acura are in? It's only a matter of time (at best, they'll wait until they see how the BMW-1 and A3 do in the market).
Oh, wait. I guess at that point, Lexus won't be a luxury car maker anymore! Drat.
#87
Originally posted by tsx-mdxman
Do you own or have you driven an MDX? Where do you get off saying it's way below the RX in quality? GTFOH. When you own or drive a real sports car or sedan or SUV, get back to us with an informed opinion instead of something stupid you made up or heard second hand.
Do you own or have you driven an MDX? Where do you get off saying it's way below the RX in quality? GTFOH. When you own or drive a real sports car or sedan or SUV, get back to us with an informed opinion instead of something stupid you made up or heard second hand.
#88
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Originally posted by gilboman
yes i have driven a MDX... its way below in RX in quality just by looking and feeling the materials, center stack design, feel of leather and switchgears...it's not going to get you anywhere trying to argue qualitywise lexus is not superior to acura... Lexus quality of materials is pretty much the benchmark of the carmakers, like their performance or what not, the quality of materials of lexus is superior to that of MB's and BMW's..dont just take my word for it..look at them at dealerships or read some mags such as C&D (the last comparo of luxo sedans where LS came in first or review of RX and ES) or MT, etc... so STFU... just like the TL is below a ES in quality of materials as well. you tell me to godrive a REAL sportscar/sedan yet you are driving a FWD I4 and telling me what a sportsedan should drive like?? bwhahahahaha... that's the same as a kia driver to tell me what a real luxury car should be (like his kia)
yes i have driven a MDX... its way below in RX in quality just by looking and feeling the materials, center stack design, feel of leather and switchgears...it's not going to get you anywhere trying to argue qualitywise lexus is not superior to acura... Lexus quality of materials is pretty much the benchmark of the carmakers, like their performance or what not, the quality of materials of lexus is superior to that of MB's and BMW's..dont just take my word for it..look at them at dealerships or read some mags such as C&D (the last comparo of luxo sedans where LS came in first or review of RX and ES) or MT, etc... so STFU... just like the TL is below a ES in quality of materials as well. you tell me to godrive a REAL sportscar/sedan yet you are driving a FWD I4 and telling me what a sportsedan should drive like?? bwhahahahaha... that's the same as a kia driver to tell me what a real luxury car should be (like his kia)
#89
Originally posted by gilboman
yes i have driven a MDX... its way below in RX in quality just by looking and feeling the materials, center stack design, feel of leather and switchgears...it's not going to get you anywhere trying to argue qualitywise lexus is not superior to acura... Lexus quality of materials is pretty much the benchmark of the carmakers, like their performance or what not, the quality of materials of lexus is superior to that of MB's and BMW's..dont just take my word for it..look at them at dealerships or read some mags such as C&D (the last comparo of luxo sedans where LS came in first or review of RX and ES) or MT, etc... so STFU... just like the TL is below a ES in quality of materials as well. you tell me to godrive a REAL sportscar/sedan yet you are driving a FWD I4 and telling me what a sportsedan should drive like?? bwhahahahaha... that's the same as a kia driver to tell me what a real luxury car should be (like his kia)
yes i have driven a MDX... its way below in RX in quality just by looking and feeling the materials, center stack design, feel of leather and switchgears...it's not going to get you anywhere trying to argue qualitywise lexus is not superior to acura... Lexus quality of materials is pretty much the benchmark of the carmakers, like their performance or what not, the quality of materials of lexus is superior to that of MB's and BMW's..dont just take my word for it..look at them at dealerships or read some mags such as C&D (the last comparo of luxo sedans where LS came in first or review of RX and ES) or MT, etc... so STFU... just like the TL is below a ES in quality of materials as well. you tell me to godrive a REAL sportscar/sedan yet you are driving a FWD I4 and telling me what a sportsedan should drive like?? bwhahahahaha... that's the same as a kia driver to tell me what a real luxury car should be (like his kia)
#90
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Originally posted by gilboman
..luxury cars= RWD, quality materials, V8 availability and new features not found in econocars eg. accord
..luxury cars= RWD, quality materials, V8 availability and new features not found in econocars eg. accord
#91
"how stupid can you get?" - I'm aspiring to be as stupid as you, so let me know when I get there.
I can sum up your entire contribution to this board in one little "equation": Sport Luxury = RWD+V6 or V8+BMW. Sometimes it must be nice to be so simple and predictable.
Here's something I found from Businessweek: "The high margins earned on Lexus cars in the U.S. make it Toyota's single most profitable business unit by far...."
So do you REALLY beileve a company aiming to be #1 in the world is going to pass up a high profit per unit opportunity by aiming a product downmarket simply because "they have Toyota for that"? Do you know nothing about business? You may disagree, and you may even be right (preserve brand image), but to call this a stupid idea only reflects on you.
Finally, don't you drive a BMW? You do know that by your logic, you don't drive a car froma luxury company, right? So if it's not a sports car, and it's not a luxury car, what kind of POS are you driving??
I can sum up your entire contribution to this board in one little "equation": Sport Luxury = RWD+V6 or V8+BMW. Sometimes it must be nice to be so simple and predictable.
Here's something I found from Businessweek: "The high margins earned on Lexus cars in the U.S. make it Toyota's single most profitable business unit by far...."
So do you REALLY beileve a company aiming to be #1 in the world is going to pass up a high profit per unit opportunity by aiming a product downmarket simply because "they have Toyota for that"? Do you know nothing about business? You may disagree, and you may even be right (preserve brand image), but to call this a stupid idea only reflects on you.
Finally, don't you drive a BMW? You do know that by your logic, you don't drive a car froma luxury company, right? So if it's not a sports car, and it's not a luxury car, what kind of POS are you driving??
#92
Originally posted by gilboman
do you want to pick rebadged econoboxy accords TL and TSX instead?? how is the RL a luxury car??? V6? FWD? give itup... Lexus sells luxury cars...Acura does not... and the RL is NOT a luxury car... but if you think Acura sells any luxury cars at all then what can i say... luxury cars= RWD, quality materials, V8 availability and new features not found in econocars eg. accord
do you want to pick rebadged econoboxy accords TL and TSX instead?? how is the RL a luxury car??? V6? FWD? give itup... Lexus sells luxury cars...Acura does not... and the RL is NOT a luxury car... but if you think Acura sells any luxury cars at all then what can i say... luxury cars= RWD, quality materials, V8 availability and new features not found in econocars eg. accord
#93
Bloomberg article on Lexus
Written by Doron Levin (columnist for Bloomberg)
"Toyota's Lexus brand is the Mouse that Roared"
Jan.20 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus could be an exception proving the rule that a luxury brand needs decades in the market, or longer, before it can evolve into a status symbol.
In 2003 Toyota sold 259,755 Lexus vehicles in the U.S., up 11 percent from a year earlier, and more than (in order) BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac or Acura.
It was the fourth straight year Lexus has been the nation's No. 1 selling luxury nameplate - -a remarkable feat, considering the franchise isn't yet 15 years old.
Lexus is positioned to continue it's streak with plans for a new version of it's car-based sport utility vehicle later this year, powered by a gas-electric hybrid engine.
Encouraged by Lexus's consumer acceptance in the U.S., Toyota will introduce the brand in Japan this year, and is hoping to carve a bigger foothold in Europe, where it has run into some difficulties.
General Motor's Cadillac francise, on the rebound after several years of declining sales and image among luxury buyers, also has been trying to extend the brand world wide.
Lexis?
I can recall the 1989 auto shows in Detroit and Chicago, when U.S. auto executives -- inclduing several from Cadillac -- barely could supress their amusement at the announcement that Toyota would try to crack the luxury market with a new brand. (Lexis? Isn't that the name of the information retrieval service used by Lawyers?)
Sure, the executives cackled, Toyota builds decent enough economy cars like the Corolla and Camry, but, hey, let's not kid one another - they can't attract wealthy buyers like Cadillac, Lincoln, or Mercedes do.
Turns out that Toyota had more saavy about the luxury market than anyone imagined. Wealthy customers expect luxury features and top performance in a vehicle;they demand outstanding service as well.
Lexus delivered vehicles that scored high in quality and satisfaction ratings. The automaker also created incentives for it's dealers to provide pampering, such as personal delivery of it's vehicles.
Caps Dealership Numbers
"The European brands mat have been caught off guard in 1989," said Mike Michaels, a Toyota spokesperson. "They quickly responded. We saw them work on pricing and the sales experience."
Lexus has capped it's distribution network at about 200 dealerships in the U.S., compared with 340 for BMW, 325 for Mercedes, and 1,495 Cadillac. Toyota determined that keeping the distribution network lean would improve the profit potential for each dealer.
As such, Lexus dealers have generated substantial capital to reinvest in dealerships and inventories, thereby improving conditions for customers and spurring new sales.
The new gas-electric cariant of Lexus's RX sport utility should help a model that alreadyy has become the most popular in the Lexus lineup, acconting for 40 percent of the franchise's total sales. The RX330 gas engine models start at a price of $35,800.
Lexus believes customers will pay a premium for the hybrid engine, which will develop 270 horsepower while delivering fuel efficiency equal to that of a compact car.
Fixing Europe Sales
A Toyota Spokesman said Lexus could sell 350,000 vehicles annually, within the next five to six years, assuming continuing expansion of the luxury sector.
About 12 percent of vehicles sold in the U.S. now are classifed as luxury, up from about 8.8 percent less than five years ago, the spokesman said. Lexus has about 14 percent of the luxury market.
Toyota earns about 80 perent of it's operating profit in the U.S. The automaker is aiming to sell as many as 60,000 Lexus cars in Japan by 2006 through 180 dealerships. Toyota also is planning to open Lexus dealerships in china in 2005.
In Europe, Lexus sales have amounted to only about 20,000 annually, a tiny sliver of the continent's luxury market. Toyota has been caught without diesel-engine capacity, which many European customers prefer in luxury models.
The automaker hopes to triple Lexus's sale on the continent by 2010, in part by offering diesels and hybrids.
"It's just a matter of time before Lexus busts through the Teutonic" preference in Europe for BMW and Mercedes, said Jeff Kuhlman, a Cadillac spokesman.
Cadillac's new STS
No. 1 producer General Motors Corp., enjoying a resurgence of it's Cadillac brand, sees Toyota as it's most formidable competitor and Lexus as the tip of the spear. Cadillac plans to introduce the STS large sedan to replace the Seville in the U.S. later this year. A version of the Saab 9-3 restyled as a Cadillac and built in Sweden, may be headed for European showrooms.
Rick Waoner, GM chief executive officer, told Bloomberg TV the automaker also is considering an even larger Cadillac, selling for more than 75,000 to compete with Lexus's flagship, the LS430, Mercedes S-class, and BMW 7 series.
No one these days underestimates Lexus, which may be why brand managers have softened their slogan recently to "passionate pursuit of perfection" to "relentless pursuit of perfection."
Written by Doron Levin (columnist for Bloomberg)
"Toyota's Lexus brand is the Mouse that Roared"
Jan.20 (Bloomberg) -- Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus could be an exception proving the rule that a luxury brand needs decades in the market, or longer, before it can evolve into a status symbol.
In 2003 Toyota sold 259,755 Lexus vehicles in the U.S., up 11 percent from a year earlier, and more than (in order) BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac or Acura.
It was the fourth straight year Lexus has been the nation's No. 1 selling luxury nameplate - -a remarkable feat, considering the franchise isn't yet 15 years old.
Lexus is positioned to continue it's streak with plans for a new version of it's car-based sport utility vehicle later this year, powered by a gas-electric hybrid engine.
Encouraged by Lexus's consumer acceptance in the U.S., Toyota will introduce the brand in Japan this year, and is hoping to carve a bigger foothold in Europe, where it has run into some difficulties.
General Motor's Cadillac francise, on the rebound after several years of declining sales and image among luxury buyers, also has been trying to extend the brand world wide.
Lexis?
I can recall the 1989 auto shows in Detroit and Chicago, when U.S. auto executives -- inclduing several from Cadillac -- barely could supress their amusement at the announcement that Toyota would try to crack the luxury market with a new brand. (Lexis? Isn't that the name of the information retrieval service used by Lawyers?)
Sure, the executives cackled, Toyota builds decent enough economy cars like the Corolla and Camry, but, hey, let's not kid one another - they can't attract wealthy buyers like Cadillac, Lincoln, or Mercedes do.
Turns out that Toyota had more saavy about the luxury market than anyone imagined. Wealthy customers expect luxury features and top performance in a vehicle;they demand outstanding service as well.
Lexus delivered vehicles that scored high in quality and satisfaction ratings. The automaker also created incentives for it's dealers to provide pampering, such as personal delivery of it's vehicles.
Caps Dealership Numbers
"The European brands mat have been caught off guard in 1989," said Mike Michaels, a Toyota spokesperson. "They quickly responded. We saw them work on pricing and the sales experience."
Lexus has capped it's distribution network at about 200 dealerships in the U.S., compared with 340 for BMW, 325 for Mercedes, and 1,495 Cadillac. Toyota determined that keeping the distribution network lean would improve the profit potential for each dealer.
As such, Lexus dealers have generated substantial capital to reinvest in dealerships and inventories, thereby improving conditions for customers and spurring new sales.
The new gas-electric cariant of Lexus's RX sport utility should help a model that alreadyy has become the most popular in the Lexus lineup, acconting for 40 percent of the franchise's total sales. The RX330 gas engine models start at a price of $35,800.
Lexus believes customers will pay a premium for the hybrid engine, which will develop 270 horsepower while delivering fuel efficiency equal to that of a compact car.
Fixing Europe Sales
A Toyota Spokesman said Lexus could sell 350,000 vehicles annually, within the next five to six years, assuming continuing expansion of the luxury sector.
About 12 percent of vehicles sold in the U.S. now are classifed as luxury, up from about 8.8 percent less than five years ago, the spokesman said. Lexus has about 14 percent of the luxury market.
Toyota earns about 80 perent of it's operating profit in the U.S. The automaker is aiming to sell as many as 60,000 Lexus cars in Japan by 2006 through 180 dealerships. Toyota also is planning to open Lexus dealerships in china in 2005.
In Europe, Lexus sales have amounted to only about 20,000 annually, a tiny sliver of the continent's luxury market. Toyota has been caught without diesel-engine capacity, which many European customers prefer in luxury models.
The automaker hopes to triple Lexus's sale on the continent by 2010, in part by offering diesels and hybrids.
"It's just a matter of time before Lexus busts through the Teutonic" preference in Europe for BMW and Mercedes, said Jeff Kuhlman, a Cadillac spokesman.
Cadillac's new STS
No. 1 producer General Motors Corp., enjoying a resurgence of it's Cadillac brand, sees Toyota as it's most formidable competitor and Lexus as the tip of the spear. Cadillac plans to introduce the STS large sedan to replace the Seville in the U.S. later this year. A version of the Saab 9-3 restyled as a Cadillac and built in Sweden, may be headed for European showrooms.
Rick Waoner, GM chief executive officer, told Bloomberg TV the automaker also is considering an even larger Cadillac, selling for more than 75,000 to compete with Lexus's flagship, the LS430, Mercedes S-class, and BMW 7 series.
No one these days underestimates Lexus, which may be why brand managers have softened their slogan recently to "passionate pursuit of perfection" to "relentless pursuit of perfection."
#94
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I don't get it - why did you post that sicklex? Does anyone here not think that Lexus is impressively accomplished??
(at least they list Acura as a luxury nameplate :P)
(at least they list Acura as a luxury nameplate :P)
#95
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"and more than (in order) BMW, Mercedes, Cadillac or Acura.
It was the fourth straight year Lexus has been the nation's No. 1 selling luxury nameplate"
did anyone catch that?
sure Acura isnt as great in luxury as Lexus, but its the same as Audi and BMW arent up to MB's standards.
Acura is comparable to BMW as the sporty luxury companies, Lexus to Mercedes-Benz as the big names and luxurious ones. I also believe Infiniti is level with Acura, and blends some Acura sportiness with Lexus luxury. Audi is level with BMW, and incorporates sportiness and luxury.
It was the fourth straight year Lexus has been the nation's No. 1 selling luxury nameplate"
did anyone catch that?
sure Acura isnt as great in luxury as Lexus, but its the same as Audi and BMW arent up to MB's standards.
Acura is comparable to BMW as the sporty luxury companies, Lexus to Mercedes-Benz as the big names and luxurious ones. I also believe Infiniti is level with Acura, and blends some Acura sportiness with Lexus luxury. Audi is level with BMW, and incorporates sportiness and luxury.
#96
Originally posted by jcg878
(at least they list Acura as a luxury nameplate :P)
(at least they list Acura as a luxury nameplate :P)
gocubsgo, here is how I rank them, in order of their prestige, and this is just my opinion.
Mercedes
BMW
Cadillac
Lexus
Audi
Acura
Infiniti
Lincoln
Does that mean that I think Acura is not a luxury marque, like gilbo? Not at all. I do think that Lexus has a more prestigious image, and likewise, it's less prestigious than the three I listed above it. I think that its image is a decade's worth of carefully pampering customers with excellent service and excellent vehicles, not because of simply offering V8 engines and RWD layouts, notice how Infiniti failed using that formula, which gilbo swears by.
#97
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I think ranking the brands is silly, but I'd say Lexus has passed Cadillac. Even the phrase "the Cadillac of _____" has been replaced by "the Lexus of ______"
Lincoln - lol
Lincoln - lol
#99
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Before we get too much further with the ranking stuff.....
Just wanted to say, I don't know about y'all, but I don't start with "Which Brand is More Prestigious," in fact that criterion isn't even second. I start with, "Which cars work for me, and which do I like best." I can't think of a Lexus, or a Cadillac, or an Infiniti, or an MB, or even a BMW that outdoes the TSX at what it is. Do they make cars that are "better"? Sure, I guess so. But so does Acura. Who outdoes the TSX at what it is? Nobody.
IMHO.
Just wanted to say, I don't know about y'all, but I don't start with "Which Brand is More Prestigious," in fact that criterion isn't even second. I start with, "Which cars work for me, and which do I like best." I can't think of a Lexus, or a Cadillac, or an Infiniti, or an MB, or even a BMW that outdoes the TSX at what it is. Do they make cars that are "better"? Sure, I guess so. But so does Acura. Who outdoes the TSX at what it is? Nobody.
IMHO.
#100
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Originally posted by larchmont
Before we get too much further with the ranking stuff.....
Just wanted to say, I don't know about y'all, but I don't start with "Which Brand is More Prestigious," in fact that criterion isn't even second. I start with, "Which cars work for me, and which do I like best." I can't think of a Lexus, or a Cadillac, or an Infiniti, or an MB, or even a BMW that outdoes the TSX at what it is. Do they make cars that are "better"? Sure, I guess so. But so does Acura. Who outdoes the TSX at what it is? Nobody.
IMHO.
Before we get too much further with the ranking stuff.....
Just wanted to say, I don't know about y'all, but I don't start with "Which Brand is More Prestigious," in fact that criterion isn't even second. I start with, "Which cars work for me, and which do I like best." I can't think of a Lexus, or a Cadillac, or an Infiniti, or an MB, or even a BMW that outdoes the TSX at what it is. Do they make cars that are "better"? Sure, I guess so. But so does Acura. Who outdoes the TSX at what it is? Nobody.
IMHO.
#101
Well how about this...pretend you don't own a TSX, look around and try to see which brands that people who want a luxury vehicle would aspire to own. Then rank them.
#102
Drifting
If this is any indicator of anything, the recent 2004 ALG ranking of 3-year residual values by premium brands in the US was:
1. BMW
2. Lexus
3. Acura
4. Mercedes-Benz
5. Audi
Interestingly, the 2003 results were:
1. Mercedes-Benz
2. BMW
3. Acura
4. Lexus
5. Audi
So tell me people don't rank Acura highly and it's not prestigious :-)
1. BMW
2. Lexus
3. Acura
4. Mercedes-Benz
5. Audi
Interestingly, the 2003 results were:
1. Mercedes-Benz
2. BMW
3. Acura
4. Lexus
5. Audi
So tell me people don't rank Acura highly and it's not prestigious :-)
#103
Senior Moderator
Originally posted by gilboman
how is the RL a luxury car??? V6? FWD? give itup... Lexus sells luxury cars...Acura does not... and the RL is NOT a luxury car... but if you think Acura sells any luxury cars at all then what can i say... luxury cars= RWD, quality materials, V8 availability
how is the RL a luxury car??? V6? FWD? give itup... Lexus sells luxury cars...Acura does not... and the RL is NOT a luxury car... but if you think Acura sells any luxury cars at all then what can i say... luxury cars= RWD, quality materials, V8 availability
#104
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V8 --- check
RWD --- check
upscale brand --- check
OK, check out the sport luxury car for sale in another a-tsx thread.
RWD --- check
upscale brand --- check
OK, check out the sport luxury car for sale in another a-tsx thread.
#105
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dnb, that was brilliant, lol! as 4 infiniti being lower than acura, id say no to that, im sorry. i believe they are equal if not infiniti a little better only due to it offering more. id like for someone to enlighten me on how acura is better than infiniti if you believe so. im not being offensive, just wanna see your opinions, because ive always thought of infiniti as the company that took away acura's 2nd place in japanese luxury.
if acura really wants to compete with lexus, they seriously need...
rwd in higher models
a new suv (rdx rumor, smaller mdx)
something to compete with the gs, and the m45 as well
something to compete with the Ls, and the Q45 as well
(either make the RL the gs' competetor and bring in a very upscale large sedan, or add a median between tl and rl)
a new v-8 according to my dealer is on the way! its the 450 hp engine for the new nsx. i forgot about whether or not the supposed engine would be the only one, or if the v-6 would still be an option. the words seem true due to honda's claim that the nsx will have no opposition.(nissan is bringing back a supercar skyline gtr in 2006-2007)
so yeah, thats what itd take to get up to lexus stature. as for now, many people dont see acura as a luxury brand. i see it, however, as a great way to get luxury and sportiness. all car makers have their pros and cons, acura has unbelieveable transmittions and handling (like bmw). it'l be interesting if acura does bring something special to then plate in the near future. the new tl was stunning, and i dont know why it didnt make car and driver's 10 best. (but hey, the tsx did)
if acura really wants to compete with lexus, they seriously need...
rwd in higher models
a new suv (rdx rumor, smaller mdx)
something to compete with the gs, and the m45 as well
something to compete with the Ls, and the Q45 as well
(either make the RL the gs' competetor and bring in a very upscale large sedan, or add a median between tl and rl)
a new v-8 according to my dealer is on the way! its the 450 hp engine for the new nsx. i forgot about whether or not the supposed engine would be the only one, or if the v-6 would still be an option. the words seem true due to honda's claim that the nsx will have no opposition.(nissan is bringing back a supercar skyline gtr in 2006-2007)
so yeah, thats what itd take to get up to lexus stature. as for now, many people dont see acura as a luxury brand. i see it, however, as a great way to get luxury and sportiness. all car makers have their pros and cons, acura has unbelieveable transmittions and handling (like bmw). it'l be interesting if acura does bring something special to then plate in the near future. the new tl was stunning, and i dont know why it didnt make car and driver's 10 best. (but hey, the tsx did)
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Originally posted by gocubsgo55
.....many people dont see acura as a luxury brand. i see it, however, as a great way to get luxury and sportiness.....
the new tl was stunning, and i dont know why it didnt make car and driver's 10 best. (but hey, the tsx did)
.....many people dont see acura as a luxury brand. i see it, however, as a great way to get luxury and sportiness.....
the new tl was stunning, and i dont know why it didnt make car and driver's 10 best. (but hey, the tsx did)
About why the TL didn't make the list, there are a few reasons, the main one being that they just didn't love the car. Another way of putting it is, they didn't think the TL was as extraordinary for what it is as the TSX is for what it is. (Which I think is absolutely right.)
BTW talking about great ways to get luxury and sportiness at a good price, what about Todd Walker? Sometimes I try to guess what kind of contract a free agent will get, and I'm usually pretty close. Not with Walker. After that post-season that he had, I was guessing "4 years, 32 million" -- and I was telling everyone I could, because I wanted to get full recognition. So he winds up getting "1 year, 1.75 million" (plus a couple of incentives -- whoopee). And they're not even thinking of him as a starter! I don't know, I don't know.
No matter. I say he gets at least 100 games and 350 at-bats, and puts up some great numbers.
#107
Originally posted by gocubsgo55
im not being offensive, just wanna see your opinions, because ive always thought of infiniti as the company that took away acura's 2nd place in japanese luxury.
im not being offensive, just wanna see your opinions, because ive always thought of infiniti as the company that took away acura's 2nd place in japanese luxury.
For 2003, Infiniti sold 118,655 units.
2003 Infiniti sales number
For 2003, Acura sold 170,918 units.
2003 Acura sales number
In terms of other intangible thoughts, I rank Acura higher than Infiniti because I give enormous credit to Acura for starting the Japanese luxury market. Had Acura failed, I don't think Toyota and Nissan would've unleashed their respective luxury divisions. Beyond that, I think Acura builds some nice cars. And I don't prioritize V8 and RWD as luxury traits; unless it takes on the best, it's just another car with X,Y and Z parts to compete with everything else out there. And that's where Acura shines. It doesn't have a V8, but its V6 engine is among the smoothest and most refined in the business. No RWD, but its FWD sedans probably handle a lot better than many others. You didn't see that from Infiniti until recently, save for the Q45's powerful V8. And Infinitis were not the designs that they've recently become. Most were bland, some were even ugly. Yes, the cynics would probably laugh at an Acura fan calling something else bland, but I think Acuras have designs that are graceful and age in the same manner. And with the exception of the Q45, I think most Acuras give the buyer a better feeling of luxury than most Infiniti models when it comes to interior quality.
I admit that Infiniti is making an incredible (and fast) comeback, but I believe that Acura is getting back on its correct track and will continue to steam ahead of Infiniti, like it always have.
#108
Originally posted by domn
So by your thinking, your mothers ES300 is not a luxury car. No V8 option, no RWD. The RL is not a luxury car? What have you been smoking Gilbo, you sound like a complete and utter fool. Go sit in an RL and then tell me its no luxury car. IDIOT.
So by your thinking, your mothers ES300 is not a luxury car. No V8 option, no RWD. The RL is not a luxury car? What have you been smoking Gilbo, you sound like a complete and utter fool. Go sit in an RL and then tell me its no luxury car. IDIOT.
so IDIOT, a dressed up camry is not a luxury car, just like a lineup of tarted up accords does not make a luxury brand.
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<-------- "tarted up accords"
Originally posted by gilboman
its not a luxury car..its entry luxury...i've sat in a RL and been disgusted just like the last TL and MDX... its not even up the ES standards..so how can it even be close to luxury? and the RL didn't even try to hide the Honda stamped on the windows, alteast even the ES hides its econocar roots by having lexus stamped on its windows. and RWD,V8 doesnt automatically = luxury...but without it, it is for sure not luxury.
so IDIOT, a dressed up camry is not a luxury car, just like a lineup of tarted up accords does not make a luxury brand.
its not a luxury car..its entry luxury...i've sat in a RL and been disgusted just like the last TL and MDX... its not even up the ES standards..so how can it even be close to luxury? and the RL didn't even try to hide the Honda stamped on the windows, alteast even the ES hides its econocar roots by having lexus stamped on its windows. and RWD,V8 doesnt automatically = luxury...but without it, it is for sure not luxury.
so IDIOT, a dressed up camry is not a luxury car, just like a lineup of tarted up accords does not make a luxury brand.
#110
Originally posted by 7or8
Guess you don't drive a luxury car then Gilbo...cause I don't see any 3 series available with a V8. That, and the fact that it may come with maybe 1 or 2 features that you may not find in a TL (which is a fixed up 'econo car'). According to your own definition your 330xi is just an entry level, wanna be luxury vehicle. Until you buy a 5 series Gilbo...you're driving the same type of wanna be entry luxury vehicle as us...welcome to the club.
Guess you don't drive a luxury car then Gilbo...cause I don't see any 3 series available with a V8. That, and the fact that it may come with maybe 1 or 2 features that you may not find in a TL (which is a fixed up 'econo car'). According to your own definition your 330xi is just an entry level, wanna be luxury vehicle. Until you buy a 5 series Gilbo...you're driving the same type of wanna be entry luxury vehicle as us...welcome to the club.
but i'm different than most here in that i dont think i drive a luxury car. but many here seem to think their econo FWD I4 is a luxury car and a brand that sells mostly tarted up econobox hondas makes a luxury brand.
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maybe i'm in the minority but i don't even care what the car i drive is considered. I love the interior styling and appointments/options. I love the exterior styling. I love the way it drives and I love the value. To me it's a sophisticated car for a good price that's going to age well and keep it's value. Luxury/entry level luxury/econobox? To me it makes no difference.
#112
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Originally posted by gilboman
its not a luxury car..its entry luxury...i've sat in a RL and been disgusted just like the last TL and MDX... its not even up the ES standards..so how can it even be close to luxury? and the RL didn't even try to hide the Honda stamped on the windows, alteast even the ES hides its econocar roots by having lexus stamped on its windows. and RWD,V8 doesnt automatically = luxury...but without it, it is for sure not luxury.
so IDIOT, a dressed up camry is not a luxury car, just like a lineup of tarted up accords does not make a luxury brand.
its not a luxury car..its entry luxury...i've sat in a RL and been disgusted just like the last TL and MDX... its not even up the ES standards..so how can it even be close to luxury? and the RL didn't even try to hide the Honda stamped on the windows, alteast even the ES hides its econocar roots by having lexus stamped on its windows. and RWD,V8 doesnt automatically = luxury...but without it, it is for sure not luxury.
so IDIOT, a dressed up camry is not a luxury car, just like a lineup of tarted up accords does not make a luxury brand.
Sometimes you have sensible, thoughtful posts and then other times your just an IDIOT. Take a hike.
Go drive your BMW off the nearest cliff.
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Originally posted by TinkySD
maybe i'm in the minority but i don't even care what the car i drive is considered.....
maybe i'm in the minority but i don't even care what the car i drive is considered.....
So why are we so hung up on whether a car is classified "luxury" or not? I test-drove a Lexus ES300, which, if it's not "luxury," it's more luxury than the TSX. And AFAIC, they can keep that Lexus and maybe have board meetings in it. I'll take a "non-luxury" car, because I want to drive it, not have meetings in it.
#114
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Originally posted by larchmont
I test-drove a Lexus ES300, which, if it's not "luxury," it's more luxury than the TSX. And AFAIC, they can keep that Lexus and maybe have board meetings in it. I'll take a "non-luxury" car, because I want to drive it, not have meetings in it.
I test-drove a Lexus ES300, which, if it's not "luxury," it's more luxury than the TSX. And AFAIC, they can keep that Lexus and maybe have board meetings in it. I'll take a "non-luxury" car, because I want to drive it, not have meetings in it.
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I've been reading this thread. Lotsa heat going around.
I honestly cannot find reason for this conversation of "Acura's better vs. Lexus' better" to continue.
Anyone who here is trying to justify their car or brand's superiority over the other ultimately leads to the same conclusion: "You're insecure." Don't think so? Ask yourself why you feel the need to justify who is better. What's the point of it all? Is it going to benefit anyone?
There's all this talk about prestige: the level of respect one gets from others. If you think a car has that much influence on the amount of respect you get, then that is truly unfortunate.
Don't get me wrong folks. I'm not immune to the need to feel prestige through material objects. If I were, I'd have bought a Dodge. But I think the truth is that this argument has been played to death. Not necessarily between Lexus and Acura, but also between almost every major car brand out there (yes, even domestics included).
There is never going to be one main point that makes one car/brand better than another. Any attempts to disprove that ultimately ends up with these long-winded and pointless threads. It's always going to be:
Car/brand A is better than car/brand B because of X.
Car/brand B is better than car/brand A because of Y, where X != Y.
So, the question is: What's better; X or Y? Unfortunately, that answer depends on the person. Someone may think X is better while another will think Y is better. Who is right and who is wrong? Neither.
Let's just leave this issue alone before we all start saying too many stupid things that we end up damaging the "prestige" that we have left.
<I can feel the flames already rising>
I honestly cannot find reason for this conversation of "Acura's better vs. Lexus' better" to continue.
Anyone who here is trying to justify their car or brand's superiority over the other ultimately leads to the same conclusion: "You're insecure." Don't think so? Ask yourself why you feel the need to justify who is better. What's the point of it all? Is it going to benefit anyone?
There's all this talk about prestige: the level of respect one gets from others. If you think a car has that much influence on the amount of respect you get, then that is truly unfortunate.
Don't get me wrong folks. I'm not immune to the need to feel prestige through material objects. If I were, I'd have bought a Dodge. But I think the truth is that this argument has been played to death. Not necessarily between Lexus and Acura, but also between almost every major car brand out there (yes, even domestics included).
There is never going to be one main point that makes one car/brand better than another. Any attempts to disprove that ultimately ends up with these long-winded and pointless threads. It's always going to be:
Car/brand A is better than car/brand B because of X.
Car/brand B is better than car/brand A because of Y, where X != Y.
So, the question is: What's better; X or Y? Unfortunately, that answer depends on the person. Someone may think X is better while another will think Y is better. Who is right and who is wrong? Neither.
Let's just leave this issue alone before we all start saying too many stupid things that we end up damaging the "prestige" that we have left.
<I can feel the flames already rising>
#116
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My issue is'nt wheather or not the TSX should be considered a luxury car. I've said several times that I would have been just as happy in fact preferred a Honda TSX with a cloth interior.
The issue is what cars/brands should be considered luxury. The TL, RL and MDX are IMO luxury cars, be it either entry-level or pure luxury. The ES330 is also IMO a Luxury car. Its Gilbo's insistance that Lurury = V8 with RWD that drives me nuts.
The issue is what cars/brands should be considered luxury. The TL, RL and MDX are IMO luxury cars, be it either entry-level or pure luxury. The ES330 is also IMO a Luxury car. Its Gilbo's insistance that Lurury = V8 with RWD that drives me nuts.
#117
"a 3 series is an ENTRY luxury vehicle" - 100% correct
"i dont delude myself into thinking its a luxury car" - excellent
"but BMW is a luxury brand, Acura is not" - i think you should lay off whatever you're smoking. according to the rest of the world, you're wrong. alternatively, if you are correct, then the following are also not luxury brands: Infiniti, Lexus, MB, Saab, Volvo, Jaguar (and prob others). All hail the ONLY luxury car manufacturer: BMW.
I could car less if I'm driving a particular brand - if Ford made the TSX I'd be getting ready to buy a Ford... except that I don't think I'll ever want to own a BMW because I would not want to be lumped in with the typical people that drive them. So I guess I do draw the line at brand somewhere!
I don't think the TSX is a luxury car. It's simply the most sporty+luxrious car in its price range (including the BMW 325 and 325xi). It must be kind of sad for you to have a "tarted up econobox" be more luxurious and still offer 90%+ of the performance of a BMW for much less money. No wonder you're so bitter about Acura and why you always have to put them down.
I think that once BMW releases the 1-series that I'll start calling the all of the other BMW's "tarted up econoboxes".
"i dont delude myself into thinking its a luxury car" - excellent
"but BMW is a luxury brand, Acura is not" - i think you should lay off whatever you're smoking. according to the rest of the world, you're wrong. alternatively, if you are correct, then the following are also not luxury brands: Infiniti, Lexus, MB, Saab, Volvo, Jaguar (and prob others). All hail the ONLY luxury car manufacturer: BMW.
I could car less if I'm driving a particular brand - if Ford made the TSX I'd be getting ready to buy a Ford... except that I don't think I'll ever want to own a BMW because I would not want to be lumped in with the typical people that drive them. So I guess I do draw the line at brand somewhere!
I don't think the TSX is a luxury car. It's simply the most sporty+luxrious car in its price range (including the BMW 325 and 325xi). It must be kind of sad for you to have a "tarted up econobox" be more luxurious and still offer 90%+ of the performance of a BMW for much less money. No wonder you're so bitter about Acura and why you always have to put them down.
I think that once BMW releases the 1-series that I'll start calling the all of the other BMW's "tarted up econoboxes".
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Originally posted by domn
My issue is'nt wheather or not the TSX should be considered a luxury car. I've said several times that I would have been just as happy in fact preferred a Honda TSX with a cloth interior.
The issue is what cars/brands should be considered luxury. The TL, RL and MDX are IMO luxury cars, be it either entry-level or pure luxury. The ES330 is also IMO a Luxury car. Its Gilbo's insistance that Lurury = V8 with RWD that drives me nuts.
My issue is'nt wheather or not the TSX should be considered a luxury car. I've said several times that I would have been just as happy in fact preferred a Honda TSX with a cloth interior.
The issue is what cars/brands should be considered luxury. The TL, RL and MDX are IMO luxury cars, be it either entry-level or pure luxury. The ES330 is also IMO a Luxury car. Its Gilbo's insistance that Lurury = V8 with RWD that drives me nuts.
I think its quite pointless to try convincing other people on your opinions. There's always going to be people who believe otherwise. It's really not worth your while or energy. Sorry dude...
#119
Originally posted by the_peel
Who cares? Different people are going to think differently about these things. A bum on the street would consider a kia a luxury car. Bill Gates, on the other hand, would consider all Acuras, Lexus', BMW, etc. crappy throwaway cars!
I think its quite pointless to try convincing other people on your opinions. There's always going to be people who believe otherwise. It's really not worth your while or energy. Sorry dude...
Who cares? Different people are going to think differently about these things. A bum on the street would consider a kia a luxury car. Bill Gates, on the other hand, would consider all Acuras, Lexus', BMW, etc. crappy throwaway cars!
I think its quite pointless to try convincing other people on your opinions. There's always going to be people who believe otherwise. It's really not worth your while or energy. Sorry dude...
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Originally posted by phile
Don't you find it ironic that you're lecturing to us about the insignificance of this thread, and that we shouldn't care, meanwhile you obviously care enough about it to tell us it doesn't matter...at least twice now? If you don't want to contribute to what you think is a worthless argument to begin with....then don't. It's as simple as that. Perhaps we are wasting our time...what's it to you?
Don't you find it ironic that you're lecturing to us about the insignificance of this thread, and that we shouldn't care, meanwhile you obviously care enough about it to tell us it doesn't matter...at least twice now? If you don't want to contribute to what you think is a worthless argument to begin with....then don't. It's as simple as that. Perhaps we are wasting our time...what's it to you?